by "BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
Published 06/13/2017 at 18:24
by "BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
Published 06/13/2017 at 18:24
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STARS: 7
So, you want to buy a 180k mile E46 330i for £650? I appreciate your audacity. You’re my kind of person. Here’s what you might expect...
1. Sunroof’s dead. £60 from eBay. Modern manufacturers have an obsession with overlapping interior trim, covering fixings with other trim panels. This is something you will learn.
2. Steering wheel stitching’s come apart. £10 from a breaker’s yard. Nice and easy fix :)
3. Bit of rust on the rear arches. Wire wheel, rust treatment, filler primer and rattle cans does a surprisingly good job :)
4. Rear wiper motor is seized. Could replace, but ended up blanking it off.
5. Handbrake stops working. Turns out the friction material had come detached from anything else so was just spinning. Forget how much new pads were but it wasn’t expensive, and replacement wasn’t too hard.
6. For a reason i cannot fathom it decides the steering angle sensor is now out of alignment despite not having moved at all. It’s at this point that i discover there is such a thing as a steering angle sensor. I immediately decide it’s a pointless and irritating device that serves no purpose beyond needless complication. £45 for electronic gubbins to talk to the ECU and tell it it was being a moron.
7. Drive to the MoT station. An ABS sensor will go in the 5 mile journey there. Cheap to replace and easy enough to replace. Can do it without even taking the wheel off :) break out the OBD2 program to calm the electronics down from their hissy fit.
8. Throttle response is god-awful. Thought it was something to do with it being 180k miles. Nope. Bit of googling suggests BMW just thought it was a good idea to calibrate a sensation of 1" of slack in their imaginary throttle cable. Is this why people think drive-by-wire is crap because my Alfa’s one is razor-sharp compared to this...
9. At the MoT station, it fails because of the ABS sensor but they highlight a worn trailing arm bush. No problem i thought, i’ve just bought a press! Easy. Nope again. BMW designed a brand new multi-link rear suspension for the E36, carried over to the E46. However, they just couldn’t quite let go of the flawed semi-trailing arm. I guess it would give better toe control if they hadn’t attached everything with some extra-wibbly bushes which negate that. However, all it’s really achieved is making quite a simple job a right ballache. Because the trailing arm is one solid cast piece with the hub, to take it off you have to dismantle a good proportion of the rear suspension, including the driveshaft. Or, you can weld up a pressing tool from some box section and threaded rod and do it in situ. Should be an easy job. Really not because of sub-par design.
10. While poking around under the front suspension I spot a sodding great crack in the front subframe. Further investigation suggests that the reason is because it’s made of steel I swear is less than 1mm thick. Nice and lightweight which I appreciate on a modern car, but I can see why it’s cracked. Bit of an arse to weld as it’s double-skinned and galvanised. Not sure if anyone’s tried to weld steel you can’t get the galv off, but at roughly the melting point of steel zinc starts to burn and dumps a load more heat into the metal you’re welding. As such, it tends to blow out if you put more than the absolute minimum heat you need in to get it to stick.
11. MoT sorted! Test-drive to pick up some box section. Although it’s quiet it does make a rather nice noise. A decent exhaust would go quite a way to making it feel sporty to drive in any way at all. Does shift though :)
12. Speaking of shifting, the gear change is a bit wooly. Probably a spring’s gone in the linkage as it self-centres in one direction but not the other. Classed as ‘livable’ after i google the procedure for replacing it.
13. Oh, and the other ABS sensor went on the test drive. This one is not easy to replace. Bolt rusted solidly into the vertical link. Heat, releasing fluid and welding successive nuts onto it as the old cheese-metal shears didn’t work. Took the hub off (easy enough actually) and drilled it out. More electronic stuff to tell the computer the world had not, in fact, ended.
14. Right! Must be done now. Another test run to pick up a motorbike lift. 5 miles from home, it starts to get noticeably louder. For 4 miles i think ‘this is what this thing should sound like!’. For the last mile, it’s racecar loud. Turns out the exhaust wasn’t held onto the manifold by nuts, but rather the fact that the studs had rust-welded into the flanges. Drop exhaust, angle grind off studs, attempt to drill out studs with drill bits made of the same cheese as the ABS sensor bolt. Borrow and buy some proper drill bits and bolt it back together.
So, that’s the saga of the E46! We were considering keeping it as it’s a bit of a goldilocks tow car, being a 330i Touring 5-speed LPG, but honestly we were put off slightly by the gakky throttle response and steady stream of breaky stuff made more difficult to fix by modern car design.
So, it’s off to the next owner! Hopefully they’ll have a better time of it given we’ve fixed pretty much all the bits that are wrong with it now...
"awmaster10" (awmaster10)
06/13/2017 at 18:46, STARS: 0
Total spent? Probably could have spent it all upfront and not had to repair anything
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
06/13/2017 at 19:06, STARS: 1
Total spent in parts was about £150, including the OBD programs and leads. I seriously doubt an £800 E46 330i would be in any better shape than this one, although you could argue that time spent equals money too, but I don’t tend to value my time very highly ;)
For reference, we’re putting it up for about £1000-1200 now that most of the little bits are fixed, and even that’s a cheap price :)
"Tristan" (casselts)
06/13/2017 at 19:22, STARS: 0
“sub-par design” is BMW’s slogan, no?
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
06/13/2017 at 19:51, STARS: 1
Turns out that’s more true than I’d thought :S engine’s pretty good, but the suspension’s struts (no camber change as the suspension compresses, meaning you need to run high static camber to get the thing to grip right) up front with what amounts to a semi-trailing arm constructed of independent links (a bit harsh, but it’s traded one source of bump steer for another) at the rear.
The MG F that’s pictured next to it has suspension cobbled together from two front subframes of an MG Metro. Honestly, that’s what they did to make the car mid-engined. Still has double-wishbones.
"Tristan" (casselts)
06/13/2017 at 19:58, STARS: 1
“Ultimate driving machine”!
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
06/14/2017 at 03:07, STARS: 1
The more I look into the mechanics of BMWs the more I realise what absolute baloney that is. Struts up front, semi-trailing arms at the rear (bump steer and camber wear), followed by a multi-link that somehow still manages to retain the aforementioned bump steer. SOHC engines with iron blocks, followed by DOHC engines with iron blocks...and then they changed the slogan when they actually started making all-alloy stuff.
None of those things are particularly bad, and you can still mix them all together and have a hell of a car, but to call it an ‘Ultimate Driving Machine’ is a bit disingenuous.
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
06/14/2017 at 06:27, STARS: 0
How much are you asking for it? Want to swap for a Camry? ;)
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
06/14/2017 at 07:56, STARS: 0
I must confess to never having possessed the desire to own a Camry ;)
We’re actually aiming for ~£1200 if we can get it, as that’ll pay for itself, the parts, and bankroll my learning to ride a motorbike. Lord knows how much it’s actually worth though. Plus points are 5-speed 3.0l Touring with LPG. Minus points are it’s a bit scrappy and 180k miles :S
Oh, did you end up selling the MG F after all?
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
06/14/2017 at 09:05, STARS: 0
“I must confess to never having possessed the desire to own a Camry ;)“
Obviously not, you’d have nothing to fix :)
180k miles is a bit much for me. No idea what it’s actually worth, but whatever the answer is, I want to pay ~75% of that at most...(Wait, what am I saying? Make that 50%.)
Literally just finished putting up some free ads for the MGF. I’ll give that a few days before I pay the fifty quid to Autotrader it. Spent all of yesterday washing and polishing it, can’t say it seems worth the effort but hopefully I’ll get a slightly better price. I’m going to test out my theory that most people buying cars don’t really know why one example of a model is more expensive than another, and assume the price reflects the quality. £1800 strikes me as an optimistic starting point, but we’ll see.
Mostly I’ve been thinking about how hard it would be to put a full-length fabric roof (as on the 500C, and the Aygo/C1/108) into some more sensible car. And that if you can create a system, it would be a great business in this country. But mainly that I want a Panda with that roof, or maybe a 9-5 estate. Or a 330 touring... With full-length opening roof. Mmmmm...
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
06/16/2017 at 06:12, STARS: 0
Haha touche ;)
That’s a very interesting theory about car pricing. Obviously it wouldn’t work for folks like you and I, but I can absolutely see it working for regular folks. My ex bought a Ford Ka for £1500 which was waaay overpriced, on the assumption that because it was higher priced than other cars in the area it was in better condition (I wasn’t there for the purchase, she’d have saved £500 if I was).
I shall try the same with the BMW. We’ll see how it goes ;)
Wasn’t that all the rage with older cars? Webasto roofs or whatever they’re called. All I know is that I avoid them like the plague on the cars I buy as they’re just a rust trap at this stage.
330 Touring with a full-length fabric roof actually sounds pretty cool though. I know a man with one for sale now you mention it ;)
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
06/17/2017 at 17:59, STARS: 0
Yeah, the Webasto stuff has a terrible reputation. (AFAIK it’s because when they’re a bit out of alignment they don’t seal properly around the edges, water sits in the runners.) But the 500C has been out for a few years and doesn’t seem to have a problem with the roof. Now they have them on a few other models too, but it seems like they’re sticking with very small cars for now.
As a retro-fit option, it seems like it’d be a big seller here if it’s not too expensive. And once you have the rails and sliding mechanism sorted, the width doesn’t matter, you just use wider fabric. If you can come up with a rail that can be cut/joined for any length, no reason you can’t do big cars.
Dunno what it would do to the stiffness of a BMW, though. Maybe if you leave enough roof to provide stiffness, you don’t have a big enough opening to make it worthwhile.
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
06/20/2017 at 15:29, STARS: 0
FFS, took the F out for a spin yesterday and there must still be air in the clutch hydraulics because (fortunately fairly near home) I started having trouble getting it into gear, and then couldn’t get a gear at all for a minute (of course with traffic backing up behind me). Finally got third and abused the clutch to get the last few hundred metres home.
Then today I wanted to bleed the system but it was just too damned hot to be outside in the sun, and all the shady parking spaces were taken.
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
06/20/2017 at 17:27, STARS: 0
Ugh that’s crap! Sounds like you’ve got a leak in the slave or master or something. Slave cylinder shouldn’t be too tricky or expensive either :) still a shitter though.
Shall have a google and see if anyone else has similar problems.
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
06/21/2017 at 04:35, STARS: 0
I’ve had a look at the googles, pretty sure it’s the clutch hydraulics. There’s a good chance I just didn’t get all the air out last time I tried to bleed it, and it finally worked its way into the cylinder. And/or to do with the heat, maybe.
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
06/21/2017 at 04:55, STARS: 0
That could well be it too. Expanding gas causing an increasing feel of mushiness until there’s not enough pressure to disengage the clutch.
As I’ve learnt, always fix the free things first ;)
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
06/21/2017 at 04:55, STARS: 0
That could well be it too. Expanding gas causing an increasing feel of mushiness until there’s not enough pressure to disengage the clutch.
As I’ve learnt, always fix the free things first ;)
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
06/21/2017 at 04:55, STARS: 0
That could well be it too. Expanding gas causing an increasing feel of mushiness until there’s not enough pressure to disengage the clutch.
As I’ve learnt, always fix the free things first ;)
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
06/21/2017 at 05:06, STARS: 0
Yeah, if it was the clutch that was fucked it would slip in gear instead of preventing me getting one, right? Also, I can get into gear fine with the engine off.
And I was never sure I’d got it right last time I tried bleeding it, so time to have another go and see what happens.
Slave cylinders are a bit expensive, £30-40, rubbers to rebuild the old ones are cheaper - but at a tenner, maybe even more overpriced for what they are. Not sure I trust NOS rubber not to have perished. And if they’re the same size as some other car, probably there are much cheaper ones available.
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
06/21/2017 at 05:18, STARS: 0
Yeah you’re right. If the clutch itself was dead you’d either have slipping or a horrendous graunching noise like my mate’s 406 when the release bearing seized and disintegrated ;)
Definitely have another go at bleeding it :)
Has it been replaced recently? If not i do wonder how it could have got air in in the first place. Are there any visible leaks?
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
06/21/2017 at 06:12, STARS: 0
From what I understand it’s pretty hard to bleed the system right, so quite possible the p/o had a little bit of air trapped upstream that didn’t come out when he bled it and had made its way to the slave cylinder by the time I bought the car.
I didn’t see any visible leaks when I looked last time. This time I’m going to inspect everything much more carefully, though. I didn’t bother removing the pin that holds the actuator rod to the clutch lever before, but this time I’ll do that so I don’t have to fight against the clutch spring to move the piston.
According to google, the MGF needs to have its fluid reservoir kept brim full the whole time to avoid sucking air in at that end - unlike most cars where it just has to be above the minimum level afaik - so I’ll be much more careful with that this time.
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
06/21/2017 at 06:25, STARS: 0
Ah that makes a lot of sense. Everything is pointing towards a bit of air trapped in the system which, while frustrating, is free at least ;)
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
06/21/2017 at 06:50, STARS: 0
Heh, I had so much trouble last time I ended up buying a vacuum bleeder - so it’s not even free.
Also, don’t buy shitty Ebay tools. The vacuum pump is good, but the attachments it came with are just flimsy soft plastic approximately the same shape as the real thing, and won’t even begin to seal.
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
06/21/2017 at 09:18, STARS: 0
Fucksake. It appears the reason I was having so much trouble bleeding the system was that the slave cylinder seals are on their way out. But not bad enough yet to leak enough in normal use to leave any trace. It was only when I realised that pushing the piston back was introducing air into the system that I had another look and discovered that a substantial amount of fluid had collected in the outer rubber.
So, now to try and find some replacement seals that aren’t 20 years old.
Also, I may have been a bit harsh on that pump, if all the air I was seeing in the pipe was actually coming past the slave-cylinder seal rather than leaking in around the fitting.
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
06/21/2017 at 09:23, STARS: 0
Bugger. I’d be distrustful of NOS seals too. Surely it can’t be that hard to get them cheaply. The car’s 80% Metro, with the rest shared with other Rovers (and maybe a Honda gearbox?).
Maybe check to see if Rover 25/MG ZS clutch slaves are the same. No sensible reason they shouldn’t...
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
06/21/2017 at 10:12, STARS: 0
Doesn’t look like it’s the same as any of the last Rovers, or the Metro.
Now I’m second-guessing myself anyway, because the inner seal looks OK and I can get a slight vacuum if I stick my thumb over the hole for the pipe union and try to pull the piston out of the cylinder. But I guess it’s just not sealing well enough, because it was clearly leaking somehow. The outer seal is completely fucked.
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
06/21/2017 at 10:15, STARS: 0
Yeah a slight vacuum probably isn’t enough to provide a seal against enough force to move a clutch. If it’s only £30-40 to replace that shouldn’t put too much of a dent in your profit margins :S
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
06/21/2017 at 10:18, STARS: 0
The cylinders are £40ish, the seals are only a tenner or so. But if they’re all NOS, the rubber is all 20 years old whichever way you go.
Quite tempted just to order a set of the seals now and see how it goes, that way at least they’ll get here before the weekend.
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
06/21/2017 at 10:27, STARS: 0
Or drive to sodding Feltham and pick them up from these chaps: http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/ .
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
06/21/2017 at 10:28, STARS: 1
“Yeah a slight vacuum probably isn’t enough to provide a seal against enough force to move a clutch.”
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. I’m just getting a little bit of suck by pulling the piston out a couple of cm, and that’s not much of a vacuum.
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
06/21/2017 at 18:51, STARS: 0
Did you see this yet?
“For those devotees wishing to keep the hydragas and the car as it came out of the factory then this is the route to take..as an alternative to the current prices for this I am working on producing a valve that can be quickly inserted by a competent mechanic/engineer and then be re-charged at a service centre with nitrogen facilities. This will bring down the cost from £350/£400+ to approx £100 and there will be no need to remove the units”
http://www.mikesatur.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=833
Chap’s obviously a butcher if he’s willing to ruin Fs with coil springs, but that bit sounds good.
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
06/22/2017 at 05:28, STARS: 0
Haha chap is obviously a butcher ;) I’ve heard his name in good regard on forums though, and I bought a little exhaust link pipe from him to fit the later silencer I accidentally bought.
£100 is eminently affordable!
“can be quickly inserted by a competent mechanic/engineer” sounds like I might even be able to do it myself. I wonder how long he’s been working on it. If the lead time is a couple of months I might consider it, but development time for aftermarket things where it’s basically just one smart dude can be quite long.
Still worth keeping in mind though. I sincerely hope my nitrogen pockets are ok. I don’t much fancy the idea of £350-400 plus whatever secondhand spheres cost...
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
06/22/2017 at 07:31, STARS: 1
Heh, he is quite well known in the field. Should know better IMO, there’s no point putting coil springs in an F, it’s not an F anymore if you do.
I got the impression from somewhere (don’t remember where) that he’s talking about a fairly short timescale before this stuff goes on sale.
I’m pretty sure we’d know about it if our nitrogen spheres were properly fucked rather than just depleted.
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
06/22/2017 at 09:56, STARS: 0
I don’t know, thinking about it, would an atmosphere pressure nitrogen sphere feel any different from an atmosphere pressure nitrogen sphere with a hole in it?
I suppose if it filled with fluid it might. Then it’d basically be immobile so you’d have basically solid-mounted wheels :S
I shall keep an eye on his website then! Mine’s not so horribly uncomfortable that I need something ASAP (although it’s definitely not as comfy as it should be).
Also, I’m starting to wonder whether my dad’s F is actually a Trophy/Cup car. It’s an early one...but had 16" wheels, an alloy throttle body and little chequered flag badges. If I can get my spherres comfy for ~£100 then he might be amenable to swapping, given he values comfort over sportiness ;)
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
06/22/2017 at 10:20, STARS: 0
“I don’t know, thinking about it, would an atmosphere pressure nitrogen sphere feel any different from an atmosphere pressure nitrogen sphere with a hole in it?”
Surely yes? Like the difference between working a bike pump that’s not connected to anything, and one where the nozzle is blocked off completely.
But I think if the membrane’s ruptured you’d have solid hydraulic fluid in there.
I think I read that Trophy/Cup cars have different spheres, but I might be wrong on that.
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
06/22/2017 at 10:48, STARS: 0
Yeah that’s what I was thinking. I suppose it would depend on how the nitrogen’s contained. If the sphere is basically a steel ball with a membrane through the middle separating the gas from the fluid then any break in the membrane would fill the whole thing with fluid.
However, if it’s basically a steel ball with a balloon in the top half containing the nitrogen, and a membrane to contain the fluid, you could have a puncture at the top of the balloon that would cause the nitrogen to leak out without anything happening to the fluid.
Off to google!
Yeah the Cup cars apparently did have different spheres, although what was different I don’t know. I know they’re supposed to be stiffer, so perhaps just more pressure in them? I also know they had lower ‘knuckles’ beneath them which effectively lowered the car and is something you can do to stock spheres just by hacking the knuckle down a bit. If it’s just an internal pressure difference then I might as well jsut get them to pump mine up more when I get it done...
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
06/22/2017 at 12:07, STARS: 0
I don’t think there’s a balloon, just a rubber diaphragm where the two spheres join. (They’re not really spheres, but ykwim.) The gas doesn’t leak out as such, it slowly diffuses through the metal.
No idea about the Cup spheres, I have enough trouble keeping up with the weirdness that relates to a car I actually own :)
Some stuff about it here: http://www.mgfregister.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17847
Lowering knuckles/pins are available, supposedly better than hacking the pin shorter and not very expensive.
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
06/24/2017 at 08:47, STARS: 0
Changed the clutch rubbers, bled the system, all working nicely now. Much better clutch pedal feel too.
Took the car out for a round-the-block test drive to check it was all pukka, put the hood down, and immediately it started pissing down. Stopped and put the hood up, got 100 yards down the road and it wasn’t raining. By the time I got back home three minutes later, it was dry there too. Looks like I can conjure up rain just by putting the top down. Do you think I can get a job doing it in drought-stricken areas?
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
06/24/2017 at 10:58, STARS: 0
Haha! Yeah i think you’re the solution to many a humanitarian crisis ;) you should start receiving charitable donations to send you on holiday to these places ;)
Glad bleeding sorted it :) although you have appeared to miss tye best of the top-down weather :S
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
06/28/2017 at 08:39, STARS: 0
It’s rained pretty much constantly since then. :)
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
06/29/2017 at 05:32, STARS: 0
Sod’s Law ;) even when it hasn’t been raining it’s been overcast enough to suggest that it might at any given moment...
"davedave1111" (davedave1111)
06/29/2017 at 07:06, STARS: 1
Yeah. CBA even to go outside it’s so grey and grim.
On the plus side, I fixed the problem where the alarm kept going off. Parked the car away from the hedge which was rapping on the window when the wind blew, seems to have stopped. Can’t believe it was that sensitive, so maybe it’s because something reset when I had the battery disconnected, but I don’t think so.