by "LJ909" (lj909)
Published 06/01/2017 at 18:57
by "LJ909" (lj909)
Published 06/01/2017 at 18:57
Tags: Lincoln
; Lincoln LS
STARS: 0
A Lincoln sports sedan? Some peoples grandpas might have had a mild stroke with the notion that the company that gave the AARP crowd the luxobarge Town Car would dare to enter to the realm dominated by the Germans and Japanese in the late 90's/early 00's. But they did. The Lincoln LS was a good attempt from an American automaker. But as usual, they gave up before they could make it better.
The LS came to fruition in 1999 for 2000 model year with Euro influences from the just recently established PAG. For those of you who don’t remember, PAG was short for Premier Automotive Group that grouped all of Fords premium brands, Lincoln,Mercury,Jaguar,Land Rover and Volvo. This was supposed to show what those brands could do when they worked together.
The LS rode on Fords DEW98 platform, which also underpinned the Jaguar S Type, Ford Thunderbird, and still currently underpins the Jaguar XF. It also used Jaguar engines: the 3.0 AJ V6 and the 3.9 AJ V8. Both models were originally known as LS6 and LS8. But after some blowback from Toyota, who thought that it would create confusion with the Lexus LS, Ford changed it to LS V6 and LS V8.
It was praised for its driving dynamics and actually being more than just a sports sedan label. It was a sports sedan. It was named Motor Trends Car of the Year at the turn of the century as well. And from its debut
until it went out of production in 2006 262,900 were built with 2331 of those being manual trans V6 models.
So what gives? Well some people said it was overpriced. Others said the interior was cheap. And there are lots of instances of reliability stories. So where do you guys think the LS went wrong and why didn’t they ever try again?
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
06/01/2017 at 19:02, STARS: 2
It went wrong because it’s a Jag
"EL_ULY" (uly)
06/01/2017 at 19:04, STARS: 3
looks maybe? I liked it but many didn’t.
Price for sure doe
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/01/2017 at 19:04, STARS: 0
Nah I don’t think that’s it. The XF is still riding around on the same platform. Though I’ve never heard or read any typical Jag horror stories regarding the XF.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
06/01/2017 at 19:05, STARS: 0
40+ years was too long between directly performance-oriented models. I mean, sure, Lincoln fielded stock cars in the ‘50s, but you can’t just jump instantly back in the game. You need time to lead the public into the idea.
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/01/2017 at 19:05, STARS: 0
It was bland I think. Even as kid when it came out I thought it looked plain.
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/01/2017 at 19:06, STARS: 1
This is true. The Town Car was and pretty much still is the face of Lincoln. You equate them with big ass comfortable luxury. Not performance and corner carving.
"feather-throttle-not-hair" (feather-throttle-not-hair)
06/01/2017 at 19:07, STARS: 2
I’m pretty sure the answer is reliability. And not offering a manual with the V8 for them cult classic points.
Side note: Somewhere someone is going to build a car with the V6 out of this thing thrown into it. It will then be the saddest LS swapped car in existence.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
06/01/2017 at 19:08, STARS: 1
The looks just never caught my attention as anything special.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
06/01/2017 at 19:13, STARS: 1
They’re not horror stories, just now-normal Jag stories
"KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs" (kusabisensei)
06/01/2017 at 19:16, STARS: 0
There was also the fact that it was, well, bland to look at, especially compared with the S-Type (for whatever you think of the S-Type, and who doesn’t).
It also didn’t share any familial semblance with it’s brothers. Too square and angular.
2000 Town Car
2000 Continental
2000 Navigator
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/01/2017 at 19:19, STARS: 1
Yea I mentioned to someone else that it was bland as hell, even for turn of the century automotive styling. It suffered from what is now known as Chevy SS syndrome.
"KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs" (kusabisensei)
06/01/2017 at 19:22, STARS: 1
But it wasn’t the same kind of bland as the rest of Lincoln. It was square bland, not puffy bland.
Much like the Porsche Panamera, it’s best experienced while driving it, so you don’t have to look at it.
It’s like Guy de Maupassant eating lunch at the Eiffel Tower, so he didn’t have to look at it.
"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
06/01/2017 at 19:48, STARS: 2
I think the market just wasn’t there. American cars had a bad rep at the time, and you could buy a nicer interior + more prestige from Audi, BMW, or Merc at that point in time.
"Sovereign, Purveyor of Coupes" (sovereign-automotive)
06/01/2017 at 19:55, STARS: 1
Idk, I thought it looked more like the navigator than the town car did. I’d also say the LS and navigator were the best looking 4 door Lincolns since the 70s when they were released.
"Sovereign, Purveyor of Coupes" (sovereign-automotive)
06/01/2017 at 19:57, STARS: 3
That’s exactly why I liked the looks. Far too many companies try to make their cars into something they are not with ridiculously aggressive styling cues.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
06/01/2017 at 20:07, STARS: 1
The styling remind some me of JDM luxury caravan from the Karen ‘80s-’90s. That’s why I like it and why it failed.
"jimz" (jimz)
06/01/2017 at 20:08, STARS: 4
1) it was practically unchanged from the day it was introduced to the day it was cancelled
2) the whole “synergies” of PAG never materialized, and PAG is directly responsible for why Lincoln has been moribund for so long.
all of the supposed justifications for PAG were bullshit anyway, it was just empire building.
"LJ909" (lj909)
06/01/2017 at 20:12, STARS: 0
Not only that PAG was a waste of money. By 04 Ford had already spent $17 billion building up PAG for no other reason than empire building, like you said.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
06/01/2017 at 20:22, STARS: 1
And I can understand that. Understated elegance is a thing in the premium space. But one man’s understated is another’s boring. Really, it was the blocky back end that cratered it for me.
"itschrome" (itschrome)
06/01/2017 at 20:29, STARS: 1
They didnt have a buyer base to sell it. Look at theur line up then and the generation prior. All they had for 20 years was the town car. No youth market at all. They sold to driver service fleets and old people scared of the 2yk bug and anything more advanced than a led fm/am radio. They still had rotory phones next to a chair in the study.
It failed for much the same reason as the Catera, execpt Cadillac at least had a “performance” model in the STS. That failed because reliablity and straight up be ause it lacked a v8. A non V8 Cadillac? My god!
Now the LS it should be noted is not nearly as unreliable but it wasnt great either. It had issues but not enough to be blamed for poor sales, minus maybe the last year run. Mostly that popped up in the long term. Its major reason for failure was no one lookes to Lincoln for that car. Who would cross shop BMW, Merc,Lexus with Lincoln at that time period. No one, look at the sales numbers. Plus they ran non ford parts, what base lincoln had tended to be fiercely loyal to a the ford brand. You cant try to sell them some euro equipped car with non ford engines. Even if the v6 is just a reworked duratec.
They should have sold it as a ford, they would have sold like hot cakes. They fucked up every aspect of bringing an over all decent car to market by trying sell a car in a market not interested in them.
.
"NJAnon" (NJAnon)
06/01/2017 at 20:48, STARS: 1
I doubt they have plans to resurrect that kind of LS. It did well for that time but it was probably just a victim of what Lincoln and the other carmakers were going through back then.
"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
06/01/2017 at 21:31, STARS: 0
The Chevy SS is a visual masterpiece compared to the LS.
"Aero" (Aero)
06/01/2017 at 21:38, STARS: 0
You must have forgotten about the Mark VII LSC.
"FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com" (alphaass)
06/01/2017 at 22:15, STARS: 1
Big problem nobody mentioned yet: the dealer network. Remember they were trying to sell these out of the same dealers offering Mercury Sables and Villagers. At the same time, they were trying to conquest sport sedan buyers from BMW, Audi, MB, Lexus, and, to some extent, Infiniti and Acura. All of those brands were selling out of luxury-only dealerships with a higher level of customer service. A lot of people used to that kind of buying experience weren’t going to put up with amateur hour at the Lincoln/Mercury dealer. Additionally, the existence of the Navigator hurt things. Back in 2000, not every luxury marque had a big SUV with the associated big margins and commissions. Salesmen weren’t interested in selling a discerning buyer an LS when they were making more money selling Navigators to soccer moms. Sometimes the car isn’t the problem - it’s the whole lineup and dealers that kill it.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
06/01/2017 at 23:06, STARS: 0
Yes. Yes I did.
Performance submodel vs. performance model semantics aside, they *were* trying at that point, so fewer year stretch for the public to have become stupid than I thought.
"gawdzillla" (gawdzillla)
06/02/2017 at 10:57, STARS: 1
came here for LS
um ... wrong LS .... bye