by "LJ909" (lj909)
Published 05/26/2017 at 14:04
by "LJ909" (lj909)
Published 05/26/2017 at 14:04
Tags: Nissan
STARS: 3
The Nissan 350Z debuted for the 2002 model year and from 02-09 it was unchanged. When it switched to 370z, it got a bigger engine and what was essentially a refresh. Other than the redesign in 09 and the bigger engine, the car on sale right now at your local Nissan dealership is the same car that’s been around since 2002. Its essentially a 15 year old sports car.
It seems that Nissan is content with letting their cars sit for long periods of time without any major updates aside from a refresh. Why is that? They aren’t cash strapped. And them doing this includes Infiniti as well . Lets look at some of their past and present models that have been sitting past their expiration dates.
The Frontier is rugged is hell, and I applaud it for being one of the few trucks, hell one of the few vehicles that offers a manual trans with its V6. But its old. It sits on the F-Alpha platform and has been around literally unchanged since its second gen debut in 2004. And it shows in its interior:
Look at how dated it is. Even them attempting to make it modern with that small ass smart phone sized nav screen doesn’t help. Maybe they dont touch it because its tried and true? Who knows?
The Xterra, which was pretty much an SUV version of the Frontier, was even older having been introduced at the turn of the century in ‘ 99 . It got a refresh in ‘ 05 and stayed the same until Nissan pulled the plug 2 years ago.
The just recently introduced Armada is a nice change, but it isn’t really new. Its new to the US as the Armada, but the rest of the world knows it as the Nissan Patrol. Whats confusing about this is that the rest of the world has had this vehicle in its current form since 2010. The US in actuality has had it since then as well but as the second gen Infiniti QX80. Meanwhile over at Nissan the Armada (which was called Pathfinder Armada when it was first released) went unchanged from ‘ 04-’ 15 . Why didn’t we get the redesigned Armada/Patrol when Infiniti got the QX80?
The Titan as well is well known for having soldiered on for over 10 years without a redesign. All the while the rest of the truck segment left it behind. And when the redesigned Titan appeared last year, Nissan was struggling to play catch up.
Over at Infiniti things don’t look much better. The Q70 or the M before the renaming, debuted in its current irritation back in ‘0 9. The only changes its had are to its model name, and the introduction of a pointless long wheelbase version here in the US. The QX50 or EX has been the same since it debuted in ‘ 07. The only changes I can see are the addition of tacked on LED running lights to “get with the times”. Lastly the QX70 or the FX/Shark Nose has been around since ‘ 03 in reality. The redesign that gave it the looks it has now happened in ‘ 08. But its same basic shape has been around hasn’t changed.
Honestly I think this is not a good road for Nissan to go down and I really don’t understand why they let models sit so long before doing anything with them. They cant possibly stay competitive doing this. Look at what happened with the Titan that I mentioned before: the model stays around for 10-12 years, by the time the new model comes out, they are playing catch up and trying to push features they have that other competitive models have had for years. And they loose sales. Sadly it looks like the GT-R is going to be going down this road. Its been around since 07. And while it has seen power increases, its getting long in the tooth and its price has gone higher and higher. Nissan needs to do something quick to remedy their model development times, or they wont be competitive at all.
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
05/26/2017 at 14:18, STARS: 0
why bother? Nissans still sell well despite the old bones.
"TorqueToYield" (torquetoyield)
05/26/2017 at 14:29, STARS: 1
Redesigns cost money. Major redesigns cost lots of money. If the car still sells, why put money into it?
There’s some accounting guy somewhere doing the cost/benefit analysis on how much it would cost to redesign, how much more it would sell vs not redesigning, and coming to the conclusion that it’s not worth it.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
05/26/2017 at 14:35, STARS: 0
Nissan tends to create a “new” generation with the same basic platform.
For example, the Infiniti Q50 & Q60 are still on the same basic platform as the G35 and G37.
But like with the 350Z to 370Z, while the platform underneath is not changed all that much, there are plenty of changes in total that make it basically a new car.
The Q50/Q60 Red Sport 400 are pretty damn different from the original G35 sedan & coupe.
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
05/26/2017 at 14:36, STARS: 1
From a production and fleet maintenance perspective, there is some sense to this. Case in point is the 70 series Land Cruiser, LR Defender, and maybe even the Jeep CJ, which were mostly unchanged (apart from a few small and cosmetic pieces) for nearly 30 years. This makes tracking down parts significantly easier and the manufacturer doesn’t need to spend as much money on R&D to reinvent the wheel every 7 years. Plus if you manage a fleet of 50 vehicles spanning many years, having to stock only one brake light assembly is the bomb.
From an enthusiast’s and sales perspective, this is a grave sin and makes cars boring as hell while the competition advances and leaves you in the dust. Not sure I’d personally plunk down (if I had it) $X on a 15 year old sports car when others are a decade newer and better for a comparable expense.
"LJ909" (lj909)
05/26/2017 at 14:38, STARS: 0
But in the long run, is loss of sales due to not being competitive to save a few bucks in the short term worth it?
"LJ909" (lj909)
05/26/2017 at 14:39, STARS: 0
Yea they pretty much put new clothes on an old body. But how long can that work for them?
"LJ909" (lj909)
05/26/2017 at 14:40, STARS: 1
That the thing. Doing this only appeals to certain people in certain situations such as fleet like you mentioned. But in the marketplace its not good at all.
"TorqueToYield" (torquetoyield)
05/26/2017 at 14:43, STARS: 0
I’m not saying I agree with the strategy, but I guarantee that some bean counter has done the math and come to the conclusion it’s not worth it (especially for certain models). You’d have to ask Nissan’s accounting department the long term vs short term question.
My guess is it’s a model by model thing and they spend that money on updating their most popular models. The models you’ve listed as not being updated seem to be their most niche ones.
"LJ909" (lj909)
05/26/2017 at 14:45, STARS: 0
Yea that’s true. The models I listed sell so/so. The popular stuff seems to get the updates like the Versa,Rouge,Altima etc. But even then its like, if you’re going to put most of your money where the sales are, why bother even making the other models?
"TorqueToYield" (torquetoyield)
05/26/2017 at 14:49, STARS: 1
“why bother even making the other models?”
Because they’ve already sunk the cost into them and now they milk it for all they’re worth.
This is super common throughout the product development world. A company sinks a ton of money into bringing a product to market and after that they’re going to milk that sucker for all it’s worth for as long as they can. As an example Cuisinart looks like it’s used the same mold, design, and engineering for their food processor for the past 60 years. Because if it works, and people like it, and still buy it, you don’t put more money into it.
"Klaus Schmoll" (klausschmoll)
05/26/2017 at 14:49, STARS: 0
Well, that reminds me of old GM with their letter-body cars. Slap some new sheetmetal on an old platform and it’s good to go for another decade. We all now how that ended.
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
05/26/2017 at 14:51, STARS: 1
Maybe its the “IDGAF, it still sells half decently” thought process?
or, maybe they’re saving all their pennies for one super absolutely amazing cutting edge niche enthusiast’s car!
"LJ909" (lj909)
05/26/2017 at 14:56, STARS: 3
Yea right. Remember when we wanted this and they were considering it, but pussied out?
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
05/26/2017 at 14:59, STARS: 1
Funds diverted to Juke replacement. #sorrynotsorry #nissan #youthoughtwedactuallyreleasethat? #ha #godriveaversa
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
05/26/2017 at 15:05, STARS: 0
Yes and no, GM often kept the same letter for totally different platform.
"feather-throttle-not-hair" (feather-throttle-not-hair)
05/26/2017 at 15:08, STARS: 2
Its more than that. The engine is different, the 370Z has a shorter wheelbase than the 350Z, it was a full redesign. There aren’t really vary many parts shared between the two vehicles that i know of.
"E92M3" (E46M3)
05/26/2017 at 15:12, STARS: 1
Because they spend too much of their time fighting over Nissan.com, and going after ebay sellers that sell Nismo stickers.
If there’s a company run worse than GM, it’s Nissan.
"LJ909" (lj909)
05/26/2017 at 15:17, STARS: 0
I forgot about that lawsuit they had with that private company that has the same family name as they do. Its still been going on.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
05/26/2017 at 15:18, STARS: 1
Modern vehicle platforms are pretty well refined to where they need to be, and coming up with new ones is expensive. The reality is that as long as a platform is keeping up with safety, fuel economy and pollution standards then the other stuff like how it drives is somewhat secondary and depends more on how well a given model is selling.
Nissan isn’t the only company that does this. The current 10th gen Corolla is the third generation in a row with basically the same platform. The 9th gen was basically identical underneath. They’re both on the “New MC” platform, but the 8th gen is the MC platform which isn’t all that different. The 8th gen came out in 2000.
"LJ909" (lj909)
05/26/2017 at 15:21, STARS: 0
I forgot about how old the Corolla was underneath. I think its just because at Toyota its not as widespread as Nissan. My reasoning is though they do these things, but then will complain when their sales fall off.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
05/26/2017 at 15:50, STARS: 1
Just in the US market, cars on the MC platform include:
Celica T230 1999-2006
Corolla E120 2000-2006
Matrix/Vibe E130 2002-2008
Prius XW10 1997-2003
Prius XW20 2004-2009
RAV4 XA20 2000-2005
tC AT10 2004-2010
New MC cars:
Corolla E150 2007-2013
Corolla E170 2014-present
Prius XW30 2010-2015
Prius V XW40 2012-present
RAV4 XA30 2006-2012
RAV4 XA40 2013-present
tC AT20 2011-2016
xB E150 2008-2015
Lexus CT A10 2011-present
Lexus HS 2010-2012
Lexus NX AZ10 2015-present
The MC platform does have the option of either cheap crap twist beam rear suspension or double wishbones.
There’s lots of other non-US cars on the MC and New MC platforms, as well.
So this is a good example of the degree to which a platform can spawn lots of different cars. You have both an 8th gen Corolla econobox and a current Lexus NX turbo awd crossover that are the same basic architecture.
"Rico" (ricorich)
05/26/2017 at 18:25, STARS: 0
The last time I brought up the ancient 370z platform the excuse people gave me was that Nissan didn’t need to update a platform just for the sake of updating it. I think a platform can only take you so far.
"LJ909" (lj909)
05/26/2017 at 19:01, STARS: 1
That’s a pretty dumb defense. Its a sports car. Its almost a necessity that they have to update it eventually. And it needs to be updated badly.
"Rico" (ricorich)
05/26/2017 at 19:14, STARS: 0
Found the thread: http://oppositelock.kinja.com/automotive-reminder-1792088373
Those comments are a hoot!
"LJ909" (lj909)
05/26/2017 at 19:18, STARS: 1
Yea the comments are crazy. And these are the same people that will complain about driving dynamics but defend a platform over a decade old that’s overweight.
"NJAnon" (NJAnon)
05/27/2017 at 00:30, STARS: 0
Nissan doesn’t let their cars sit unchanged. They have had a schedule of updates for the R35 GTR. And according to Nissan, thats the only car we should care about.