by "The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
Published 05/25/2017 at 01:23
by "The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
Published 05/25/2017 at 01:23
Tags: TOTALLYIAMNOTLYINGIAMFORREALOK
STARS: 3
Might as well drag some parachute’s behind it while your at it, the terrible headlight design is not doing any good. BMW designed a beautiful car then put on a shitty headlight design.
It sucks that automakers used that terrible headlight idea for so many cars in the past, good thing they dumped it for decent headlight designs.
"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
05/25/2017 at 01:32, STARS: 7
No
"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
05/25/2017 at 01:33, STARS: 0
wrong.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
05/25/2017 at 01:36, STARS: 11
Says the man with 937 Nissan Juke posts.
"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
05/25/2017 at 01:38, STARS: 1
You is
"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
05/25/2017 at 01:40, STARS: 0
no u.
"gmctavish needs more space" (gmctavish)
05/25/2017 at 01:42, STARS: 0
"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
05/25/2017 at 01:44, STARS: 0
atleast the Juke has a good headlight design, not one inspirited by paratroopers.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
05/25/2017 at 01:47, STARS: 0
Popup headlights are cool.
"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
05/25/2017 at 01:49, STARS: 0
Popup headlights Jukes are cool.
"Nauraushaun" (nauraushaun12)
05/25/2017 at 01:59, STARS: 0
Lights up during the day is the problem. Would rather die
"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
05/25/2017 at 02:01, STARS: 1
I rather die at night with them down, then be seen with them up.
"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
05/25/2017 at 02:01, STARS: 0
I rather die at night with them down, then be seen with them up.
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
05/25/2017 at 02:06, STARS: 21
Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.
"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
05/25/2017 at 02:08, STARS: 0
Nope, I feel great.
"Wagon Guy drives a Boostang" (gimmeboost)
05/25/2017 at 03:43, STARS: 2
Yet another thing the Kanuck is wrong about.
Pop Up headlights = good.
Juke =/= mediocre.
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
05/25/2017 at 05:45, STARS: 5
Alas, your opinion is not shared by the vast majority of enthusiasts. Pop-ups are awesome.
If you want to base your opinion on drag, then consider this: how often do you have your lights on while driving?
Pop-up headlights allow for less drag while your lights are off by allowing for a lower nose but still meeting light height regulations. This is offset unfortunately by the added drag when the lights are up.
If you spend anything more than 50% of your driving with the lights down, your car has less drag by dint of having pop-ups.
Of course, that’ll change depending on the relative drag reduction of a lower nose vs the drag increase of them popped up, but it’s the same trade-off and would just alter the % at which it’s more or less efficient.
The reason they went away wasn’t because they were inefficient. It was because pedestrian impact regulations mandated a higher nose anyway, meaning there was no reason to have pop-ups.
"random001" (random001)
05/25/2017 at 06:35, STARS: 2
Looks at post. Looks at pictures of Juke. Analyzes Juke aerodynamics. Becomes confused by post.
"random001" (random001)
05/25/2017 at 06:37, STARS: 5
I know you’re trolling to troll at this point, but “good headlight design” and “Juke” are not related in any way.
"jordang1028" (jordang10228)
05/25/2017 at 07:34, STARS: 0
Didn’t we just do the pop-up argument on here fairly recently?
"jordang1028" (jordang10228)
05/25/2017 at 07:35, STARS: 1
Paratroopers are as fucking cool as it gets.
"boredalways" (boredalway666)
05/25/2017 at 07:54, STARS: 0
Were born in the ‘90's?
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
05/25/2017 at 07:59, STARS: 1
Also, headlight technology got better, with the advent of projectors, allowing low headlights to work worth a damn.
(Although, NB1 Miatas are dire all around in the lighting department - when they went to low headlights without going to projectors. NB2 fixed that, at least.)
"Thomas Donohue" (tomonomics)
05/25/2017 at 08:18, STARS: 0
This guy disagrees...
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
"and 100 more" (nth256)
05/25/2017 at 08:56, STARS: 0
But by your own logic, integrated headlamps give you 100% of the aero all the time with no compromise to lighting quality. Proper contemporary headlights could have been integrated into the design, even at the time, without requiring a raised nose.
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
05/25/2017 at 09:16, STARS: 1
Integrated headlamps would require you to raise the nose of the car up to the height of the headlamps when they were popped up. There’s nothing physically preventing you from integrating them into the bumper, but there are regulations which mandate the height of headlamps which is what pop-ups are designed to work with.
Have a look at the 8-Series pic up top. In order to have integrated headlamps that meet regulation height, you’d need to raise the nose of the car until it was as high as the level of the headlamps in the popped up position, increasing drag.
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
05/25/2017 at 09:18, STARS: 0
True, although I don’t think that factored into it much. The sticking point for headlight height is the regulations for it, which I don’t believe have been changed for projectors.
Oddly, it’s sod-all about getting adequate lighting in real life, and all to do with meeting regulations (that are admittedly designed to help improve lighting, but only deal with height).
"Milky" (jordanmielke)
05/25/2017 at 09:56, STARS: 2
Everyone is mad, but in the end we know who wins the argument. Oh no car offers pop-ups in 2017? Good.
"and 100 more" (nth256)
05/25/2017 at 10:48, STARS: 0
No, because you could in-set the headlamps, similar to these examples, and maintain them at the regulated height:
Nissan 300ZX
Bugatti EB110
C3 with non-popup headlamps
C4 with non-popup headlamps
944 with non-popup headlamps
Again, a 944
Note that in none of these cases has the aerodynamic quality changed versus their popup versions (or versus similarly-styled vehicles with popups), and yet all maintain a low nose and a wedgelike profile, similar to the 8-series (with headlamps in daytime position) with zero compromise to per-regulation headlamp height. The only compromise, debatably, is aesthetics, but you’re then treading away from your original argument.
"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg)
05/25/2017 at 11:20, STARS: 1
I can’t remember the last time one of my comments got this many stars on Oppo.
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
05/25/2017 at 11:39, STARS: 0
Hmmm, interesting. A lot of those cars originally had pop-ups and then moved to the flush-fit ones. The question would be why they did.
Now, pop-ups are a ball-ache to design and expensive to produce, so manufacturers likely wouldn’t have made them unless there was benefit. So, what was the change that took place to make it so that they’re no longer viable?
First we need an unbiased sample.
Which of those cars pictured are aftermarket fitments and how many OEM?
Which of those cars changed over mid-way through production?
Which of those cars had those inset headlights only in certain markets, and did those markets have different headlight laws?
I won’t argue that they’re better aerodynamically than popups though :) that’s clear. My only thought was what changed?
"Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle" (1500sand535)
05/25/2017 at 11:40, STARS: 0
At least to me, the headlights are by far and away the most unattractive part of the juke. I like most of the things about the juke except those headlights. I’ve gone so far as to ponder if a person could use the lower fog lights for headlights and then somehow get rid of the headlight apparatus for something smoothe and painted to match the body.
"and 100 more" (nth256)
05/25/2017 at 11:58, STARS: 0
I would assume pedestrian safety regs that killed popups altogether. Most of these cars are of the era that popups disappeared, so i’m assuming that - like the Mitsubishi 3000GT - any car that started with popups and then went away from them, probably mark exactly when that particular regulation was enacted.
As to the case for popups, I assume there are good reasons aside from aesthetics, but c’mon... So that being said, I think the 8-series (specifically, in this case) included them because, for whatever they added to the cost of manufacture, they more than made up for themselves in profit. Focus groups probably loved the look of the 8-series with popups, and BMW was happy to oblige, and markup the cost accordingly.
This is probably true in most cases. One of the very few instances in which i can see your argument for popups-required-to-meet-minimum-headlamp-height-regs is the NA Miata. It’s such a small car, and it was using those cheap, round, sealed-beam lamps... Cheap lamps fit the Miata’s premise of a small, sleek , lightweight, simple, low-cost sports car; but having those same lamps in a fixed housing would’ve made it look like an Austin-Healey Sprite:
Again, I feel like aesthetics won out in the case of the NA Miata, but practically speaking, it would’ve ruined the overall flow of the design, and it would never have been as popular as it was.
EDIT: Oh ye gods, someone did it...
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
05/25/2017 at 12:32, STARS: 1
Most of those with a conversion away from popups are, I think, going to either a smaller lamp, a light-cutting (high angle) Perspex cover, lower final position, a limited discharge cone, or all of the above. Combine that with the real-estate required for the pocket and the fact the lamp is harder to access and will cool less well, there are certainly compromises involved. A conversion which didn’t have sockets (and all their disadvantages) would be preferred from a functional standpoint, but have higher drag. I suspect there’s a good reason that despite the C3 Corvette example above, none of the racing ones were set up that way -rather this:
Only having in common a Perspex cover (closer to vertical), much further forward, less shielded. I can only conclude that if a race car goes for the more aero-troubled version, the effects on lighting must be dire indeed.
"wiffleballtony" (wiffleballtony)
05/25/2017 at 13:12, STARS: 0
"Nauraushaun" (nauraushaun12)
05/25/2017 at 18:43, STARS: 1
YOU’RE AN IDIOT
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
05/26/2017 at 04:42, STARS: 0
Ugh what is that? Honestly some people must be blind. I get what they were trying to do, but it looks terrible.
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
05/26/2017 at 04:42, STARS: 0
Ugh what is that? Honestly some people must be blind. I get what they were trying to do, but it looks terrible.