by "ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
Published 05/18/2017 at 11:32
by "ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
Published 05/18/2017 at 11:32
Tags: education
; Trump
STARS: 4
It’s time to leave the president alone, stop this witch hunt, so he can move on to the more important issues facing our country. Like education financing.
According to the
Washington Post
:
Funding for college work-study programs would be cut in half, public-service loan forgiveness would end and hundreds of millions of dollars that public schools could use for mental health, advanced coursework and other services would vanish under a Trump administration plan to cut $10.6 billion from federal education initiatives, according to budget documents obtained by The Washington Post.
The administration would channel part of the savings into its top priority: school choice. It seeks to spend about $400 million to expand charter schools and vouchers for private and religious schools, and another $1 billion to push public schools to adopt choice-friendly policies.
“School choice” is such a lovely euphemism. Why not just call a spade a spade and say, “Dismantling public schools so we can make a for-profit business out of education.” The real losers in a school voucher system? Special needs kids. Only a small fraction of the private schools are equipped to accommodate these kids, and some won’t accept them at all . And religious schools are exempt from the Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA). So many of these kids will be relegated to an increasingly underfunded public school system.
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"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
05/18/2017 at 11:34, STARS: 2
Wouldn’t the way to fund vouchers be closing bad public schools, not cutting certain services at all schools?
Still, I do sympathize with reforming the current system of school choice in the USA: buy a house in an expensive neighborhood or your kids are screwed.
"ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)" (adabofoppo)
05/18/2017 at 11:36, STARS: 2
Why not both?
Why can’t we shine a light on ALL the bullshit and shenanigans going on with this regime?
"190octane" (admiralcb)
05/18/2017 at 11:36, STARS: 13
Or, you know, make public schools better instead of trying to privatize everything.
We could start by not cutting education spending in the poorest neighborhoods and trapping people in a cycle of poverty.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
05/18/2017 at 11:37, STARS: 1
Shhhh!
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
05/18/2017 at 11:38, STARS: 1
Making things better means change, and no one likes change in their public services. Just look at the UK when the NHS tries to consolidate clinics.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
05/18/2017 at 11:38, STARS: 3
Which “bad” schools would you close? How would you decide which ones are “bad?” Test scores? Attendance rates? Graduation rates? Standardized tests when there is no such thing as a standard student?
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
05/18/2017 at 11:39, STARS: 0
That’s probably why people are attracted to the idea of choice tbh
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
05/18/2017 at 11:42, STARS: 0
But what about those who, for whatever reason (geography, special needs, transportation, money, etc), have no choice?
"PatBateman" (PatBateman)
05/18/2017 at 11:43, STARS: 1
Eanes ISD’s Official Response: ¯\_()_/¯
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
05/18/2017 at 11:44, STARS: 0
Maybe those schools wouldn’t be closed? I’m not up to date on that hypothetical school district’s policy.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
05/18/2017 at 11:45, STARS: 0
“Independent” school district? Sounds like a buncha Confederate “states rights” mumbo-jumbo to me
/s
"EL_ULY" (uly)
05/18/2017 at 11:47, STARS: 1
Drumpf’s logic to make a better country: Uneducated and unhealthy citizens are easier to govern.
"190octane" (admiralcb)
05/18/2017 at 11:48, STARS: 0
I’m pretty sure the people in the poorest parts of Chicago would welcome change.
Or do you mean that the people who might have to pay more in taxes or see cuts in military spending wouldn’t like this change?
"RallyWrench" (rndlitebmw)
05/18/2017 at 11:48, STARS: 2
Meanwhile, Los Angeles County just had the most expensive school board election in history, and the charter school lobby won big, because guess what the Waltons and other obscenely rich people donate to? Oh yeah, robbing public funds to pay for private school. In particular, using public school money to pay for religious schools upsets me. Church/State what?
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
05/18/2017 at 11:49, STARS: 0
In AZ we have open enrollment and the religious wingnuts still scream about school choice. I went to an awful private school when I was in elementary school #becausejeebus. It has nothing to do with education for most of these people.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
05/18/2017 at 11:50, STARS: 0
No man that money has to go to building a library/museum
"PatBateman" (PatBateman)
05/18/2017 at 11:50, STARS: 1
Well, they did secede from Austin ISD, so...
And there’s also a little matter of their racial demographics.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
05/18/2017 at 11:51, STARS: 0
But gerrymandering is good when it benefits me
"190octane" (admiralcb)
05/18/2017 at 11:52, STARS: 3
Imagine how many libraries could be built and staffed if the First Lady moved into the White House and trump didn’t go to one of his golf courses every fucking weekend?
"vondon302" (vondon302)
05/18/2017 at 11:52, STARS: 1
Well that’s what Devoss was put in there for. My wife is a middle school teacher in Michigan. She only has 9 more years to go before retirement and I don’t think she’s gonna make it. Teaching used to be a respectable job now your just a glorified baby sitter that teaches to the test.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
05/18/2017 at 11:53, STARS: 0
I’m actually pretty excited to see what kind of building the Trump library uses tbh
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
05/18/2017 at 11:53, STARS: 0
Preach.
"190octane" (admiralcb)
05/18/2017 at 11:55, STARS: 1
A new wing of Leavenworth.. I imagine his donations will come from the private prison lobby.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
05/18/2017 at 11:55, STARS: 5
Here’s my take: You pay taxes, you get public schools. If you don’t want to go to public school, you have to pay for private school. That’s your choice.
"MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario)
05/18/2017 at 11:57, STARS: 1
Yup, and that problem is a feedback loop. The poor schools are underfunded because they are in poor neighborhoods, poor people generally make less because they are less educated often because of poor schooling. The problem with how we fund schools is that taxes stay extremely localized. I think if school tax funds came from the state level and places were funded based on the number of students rather than how rich your town is we’d be much better off.
"Bryan doesn't drive a 1M" (bryantakespictures)
05/18/2017 at 11:58, STARS: 1
That’s the GOP’s logic. Trump’s logic is “Gee, look at me, I’m president! I’m winning!”
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
05/18/2017 at 11:58, STARS: 1
“(U.S. Senate) - U.S. Senator Jon Tester has a simple message for Education Secretary Betsy Devos: Your bureaucratic decision to reject the University of Montana’s Upward Bound application based on arbitrary formatting requirements has serious consequences.
Tester today introduced the Department of Education Accountability Act to rescind $500,000 from DeVos’ personal office budget for every week that she refuses to reconsider the University of Montana’s revised Upward Bound application after it was rejected for the sole reason it wasn’t double spaced. Tester secured a provision earlier this month in the federal budget that pressures DeVos to reconsider UM’s application, but she is ignoring that provision.”-www.tester.senate.gov (5/16/2017)
https://www.tester.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=5261
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
05/18/2017 at 11:58, STARS: 1
Brutalism is one of my favorite architectural styles!
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
05/18/2017 at 11:59, STARS: 1
For my kids, the school year effectively ends when they take their last standardized test. With three weeks to go (the last two weeks are 4-day weeks), they don’t do shit. They play games, help the teacher pack up the room, have field day. As I said to ForSweden, how can you have a standardized test when there are no standard kids?
I have two boys in 5th grade. One of the teachers stopped assigning homework. I asked him why, and he said because nobody was turning it in. The average homework score for the semester in my boy’s class is 50. How can you judge that school, or that teacher, if kids (and more importantly, their parents), simply refuse to participate and do the work?
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
05/18/2017 at 12:00, STARS: 0
Business as usual™
"190octane" (admiralcb)
05/18/2017 at 12:01, STARS: 1
It will be the first presidential library where you’ll have the president on hand! The best library!
"RallyWrench" (rndlitebmw)
05/18/2017 at 12:02, STARS: 1
This, exactly. The other side of the same argument is, if I pay taxes, I’m not paying for your private school or the religious indoctrination of your children, because they’re too young to choose.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
05/18/2017 at 12:03, STARS: 1
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
05/18/2017 at 12:07, STARS: 1
And top that off with the way schools in Texas are funded by property taxes. It’s not hard at all to figure out the inequality there.
"RallyWrench" (rndlitebmw)
05/18/2017 at 12:09, STARS: 2
That’s amazing. If anything is in the greater good, it’s quality public schooling for every child. That’s the tide that lifts all boats, and I will pay more taxes for that.
"Ash78, voting early and often" (ash78)
05/18/2017 at 12:12, STARS: 1
My son went from a half - day private Christian kindergarten program at $225/month (dirt cheap, that ’ s a lot less than daycare) to our “ free ” public school, where he repeated Kindergarten for maturity reasons (he was the youngest in the class the first time around). It ’ s been night and day. Reason being that the public school teachers seem to act like it ’ s an entitlement for them to work there, while the Christian school teachers were passionate about it. And the Christian school teachers don ’ t get paid nearly as well, so you find people who really do it because it ’ s their calling. He had twice the academics in half the time there, as well. Top notch operation, but only went through Kindergarten.
Part of the problem is society as a whole
—
we
“
need
”
our kids gone for 7
-
8 hours so we can all go to jobs, in part because wages have stagnated for decades (especially for men) and virtually every parent has to work now. So we treat schools as babysitters and they become mind
-
numbing timewasters for most of the day. The teachers seem to mostly be there for the 8 months of work per year, great benefits, tenure, etc. I
’
m just not seeing the passion...it
’
s sad for everyone involved.
"vondon302" (vondon302)
05/18/2017 at 12:13, STARS: 0
So much this.
My wife has one more week and then no more new knowledge just studying for the test. She can handle the tough kids (School of choice so she gets a ton of kids from Detroit) it’s the parent’s that are hard to deal with. Also when people talk school of choice they never factor in the bad kids. So if you get expelled now it’s no big deal just go to the next school of choice. My wife once had a student that’s been in 7 school districts in 5 years and the family had never moved.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
05/18/2017 at 12:19, STARS: 1
As a musician, I have played for MANY graduation ceremonies, both college and high school. Most years, I play for a very exclusive private high school, the kind of place that basically charges college-level tuition to attend, and I look at the graduates. There might be one or two black kids in the class. I’m not sure if I can remember seeing any Asians. When you look at an assembly at either our elementary or middle school, you see an absolute patchwork of ethnicities, religions, sexualities, etc. You might get a better book education at a private school, but you’re not going to get a better life education. I would argue that insular and segregated private schools only may even serve to perpetuate racism.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
05/18/2017 at 12:21, STARS: 1
I have a colleague whose wife teaches elementary school (public). She said that many of the worst kids end up in the charter system because they have been booted out of public, and many of the charters don’t have the same standards for teacher hiring, so they get more inexperienced teachers who don’t have the skills to handle the problem kids.
"PatBateman" (PatBateman)
05/18/2017 at 12:23, STARS: 0
This ain’t no gerrymandering, Bubba! This right here is some good ole liberty!
"vondon302" (vondon302)
05/18/2017 at 12:27, STARS: 1
Hmm. Around here the charters kick the bad kids out pretty quick. Different state rules maybe. My wife started in a charter and it was a pretty miserable experience. Huge class loads with minimal pay.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
05/18/2017 at 12:29, STARS: 4
I worry about the blanket statement that public school teachers are lazy and entitled. There are good teachers and there are bad teachers, just like there are good and bad auto mechanics. Some are punching a clock, some are passionate about their job. I have had discussions with parents who ask “How is your school?” I reply that it’s no better or worse than any other school, but a lot of one’s school experience is what you make of it. Being active in PTA, volunteering, getting to know your teachers and admin staff, networking with other parents, goes a long way. Chances are there is more than one teacher at your son’s grade level. Request a different teacher. Ask other parents who the good teachers are and try to get your son assigned to them. In most cases, we don’t have to be stuck with the clock-punchers.
"Ash78, voting early and often" (ash78)
05/18/2017 at 12:38, STARS: 0
Sure, and we tried. It just seemed like our district was a little too bureaucratic and unresponsive to be willing to accommodate our complaints about the teacher (and yes, she ’ s really bad). We had meetings with the principal, the student counselor, etc, but it all just went nowhere. It ’ s like they circled the wagons. To be fair, we ’ re talking about class sizes that are double. But also, my experience over the past 20 years is that Elementary Education (as a college major) has made the idea of teaching a little too attractive to people who might not be cut out for it. Like I mentioned, I see it as a calling and not something you can just show up and do well. That ’ s not to say they deserve low salaries, just that it ’ s not going to be a great “ single - income career path ” for a lot of people. My good college buddy went into high school math teaching and has done really well, but he ’ s just that kind of person who loves it from top to bottom. I suppose that ’ s a little easier when you ’ re teaching a specific subject, though.
Minor/relevant update: I just got off the phone with another half-day private school that goes through 5th grade. The admissions lady has 45 years of experience and was thrilled to talk to us. She set up a time to meet, assess my son’s best grade level for next year, etc. And this is half the tuition of our other private schools around, so it’s semi-affordable. They’re not making money hand over fist, they just love what they do. I wish I saw more of that from his current school because I really want to like it (and save a fortune!)
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
05/18/2017 at 12:42, STARS: 1
Agree wholeheartedly. When you consider private religious schools as well it drives a divide and misunderstanding between people of different religious groups.
Fixing the divide along various lines (race, sex, religion, socioeconomic status, etc) has to begin with our children. It will always be more difficult to change an adult’s opinion than it will be to shape a child’s perception and experience.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
05/18/2017 at 12:44, STARS: 0
Me too. My parents are trying to visit all the presidential libraries, we just went to Eisenhower’s this past weekend. My mother commented that she wouldn’t visit Trump’s eventual library and I said why not? It’ll undoubtedly be interesting one way or the other.
"sony1492" (sony1492)
05/18/2017 at 12:47, STARS: 0
Having come from a high-school (8th-12th) that had less than 300 students and was very rural. Funding based on the number of students would be catastrophic for such areas. Students had to take hour long(or more) bus rides to get to school and the bus’s were run the majority of the day on terrible roads. Rural county’s require more money even if the number that attend is relatively low. Im not gonna claim to know how the funding is handled but funding was already a huge problem and if they tried to fund based on the number attending city schools(large schools) would flourish with better programs while rural schools would suffer.
"Mercedes Streeter" (smart)
05/18/2017 at 12:50, STARS: 2
public-service loan forgiveness would end
Oh fuck you Trump. If a school scammed me and closed down because of that shit there’s literally no reason to force me to pay those fucking loans.
"MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario)
05/18/2017 at 13:15, STARS: 1
I think a rural area would end up with more money if the school taxes were distributed based on student count. Either way, I’m not proposing specific policy here, just saying that the current tax system where we use property taxes to fund schools ensures that poor areas almost always have terrible schools with little they can do to change that. Funding at a state level basing it on student count would at least level the playing field between rich and poor schools. Whatever equation is used to determine funding could even factor in things like whether it’s a rural or suburban area.
"merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc" (merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc)
05/18/2017 at 13:17, STARS: 1
Exactly. If I don’t like the schools in my area, I can move to another area with better schools, or foot the bill for a private school. I’m okay with that.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
05/18/2017 at 14:13, STARS: 1
Have you tried changing schools? I know in TX you can petition to go to a school that is outside of your district. Many do. I think you may also be running up against the teacher’s union. As a fairly liberal guy, I’ve generally been supportive of unions (I need to join the musician’s union). But from what I’ve seen of the teacher’s union, it’s a bad deal. They fiercely protect their own.
"gmporschenut also a fan of hondas" (gmporschenut)
05/18/2017 at 22:21, STARS: 1
my aunt was a teacher (for a while at a public school) and now principle at a catholic school. She spent a few years at the catholic school, before trying a couple at the public school then went back to the catholic school. Although benefits were much better at the public school 1/2 to 3/4 of the day was herding cats.
"gmporschenut also a fan of hondas" (gmporschenut)
05/18/2017 at 22:22, STARS: 0
my aunt switched teaching from public to catholic. out of curiosity what was the class size between the two? that was her biggest complaint was that it was nearly impossible to spend any time with individual students.
"Ash78, voting early and often" (ash78)
05/19/2017 at 09:30, STARS: 0
His Baptist kindergarten was just 12 students. Public is 18. The Presbyterian school we’re considering for 1st grade is 17-18. So it’s a bit of apples-to-apples, but our experience from the Christian schools has been a lot more desire to do the job well. That culture tends to show through in every level of communication with them. We also looked at a Catholic school nearby and they were awesome, but since we’re Protestant it would have gotten a little confusing for the kids. But a great operation at a reasonable cost, as most Catholic schools are.