by "Pacer Racer" (pacerracer)
Published 05/16/2017 at 22:42
by "Pacer Racer" (pacerracer)
Published 05/16/2017 at 22:42
Tags: Corolla
; Why?
; Compact
; Toyota
STARS: 5
I have a feeling this question could irk a few Opponauts, but I feel it needs to be asked:
Are we so stuck in a rut as a car community that we don’t recognize good cars until they’re 20 years out of date?
I mean, look at the Nissan 240SX. Great car, and most Oppos you ask would probably agree that it’s a “modern classic”. But up until a decade ago, it was just an old Nissan. Sure, it was popular with the drift crowd, but outside of that, they were mostly $1500 beaters and were shown a likewise unnoticed level of appreciation in car enthusiast circles. It wasn’t until the full reprocussions of the exodus of Japanese manufacturers from sports car production were finally felt in the early 2010s that the S13-15 started to really climb in price.
I began musing this the other day behind the wheel of a 2017 Toyota Corolla SE 50th Anniversary. You see, if you ask any self-respecting car enthusiast, they’ll tell you that a modern Corolla (I.e. any Corolla that’s not RWD) is an absolute purgatory of vanilla commuter culture. They’ll say there’s no fun to be had by a “real enthusiast” in a modern Corolla, and would probably steer you towards an ST or GTI.
The strange thing is, I was having a blast in this 4door, front-drive Corolla. The heavily bolstered seats cradled me like an F1 cockpit, the little 1.8 under hood was constantly begging me to rev it all the way up to 6500, and the flappy paddle sport mode didn’t force me to shift- it would let me hold revs as long as I wanted, and it would let the engine bark violently on downshift. Sure, that tranny wasn’t perfect, and the car felt a little heavy, but overall it was a great match for any sport compact I’ve ever been around. It’s not fast, but it feels fast- and that’s the real allure behind any enthusiast car, right? I mean, MGs and C10s and Bel Airs, none of them are fast by today’s standards, but they still have huge followings. So why does the Corolla get demonized?
Part of this issue comes down to exclusivity. Car enthusiasts want to drive machines that stand out from the crowd, to be noticed, and a Corolla won’t provide that experience without modification. Still, though, I think we’re missing out on some great machinery.
I wonder sometimes how many extra points we give the ST twins for coming in manual transmission guise only. I occasionally think that the GTI is only popular because it was “the original”, not because it offers a substantially better experience. Cars like the Corolla SE and Sentra NISMO are looking for their day in the limelight, and their potential for fun runabouts most likely won’t be realized until they are long out of production. Why do we do this, Oppo?
"RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire" (ricerocketeer2)
05/16/2017 at 22:48, STARS: 7
There’s plenty of tripe from the era of the 240SX that’s forgotten and will stay forgotten. The Corolla back then was an appliance; the Corolla of today is an appliance.
Not sure if you’re trolling or what.
"Jcarr" (jcarr)
05/16/2017 at 22:51, STARS: 0
I hear you. I have plenty of fun in my Camry SE, even though it really has zero sporting pretense.
"CB" (jrcb)
05/16/2017 at 22:53, STARS: 4
I think I get your point. I just think people like to harp on the littlest things now because there are really no “bad” cars anymore. So Corollas and Sentras get shat on because they’re cheap appliance cars with no “soul”, whatever the hell that means, even though they’re pretty good. We’ve just made some sort of imaginary checklist as to what we think makes the best car, and automatically disqualify any car that doesn’t meet that. (Honestly, I think that a diesel manual wagon would be a lot more boring than people think it would be)
Realistically, as long as people enjoy what they drive, that’s fine by me.
"Pacer Racer" (pacerracer)
05/16/2017 at 22:54, STARS: 0
No, not trolling. I legitimately enjoyed my time with the Corolla SE that I drove. Perhaps it was just that I was driving it flat out because it wasn’t my car, but I thought it was quite a lot of fun.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
05/16/2017 at 23:09, STARS: 3
The strange thing is, I was having a blast in this 4door, front-drive Corolla. The heavily bolstered seats cradled me like an F1 cockpit, the little 1.8 under hood was constantly begging me to rev it all the way up to 6500, and the flappy paddle sport mode didn’t force me to shift- it would let me hold revs as long as I wanted, and it would let the engine bark violently on downshift. Sure, that tranny wasn’t perfect, and the car felt a little heavy, but overall it was a great match for any sport compact I’ve ever been around. It’s not fast, but it feels fast- and that’s the real allure behind any enthusiast car, right? I mean, MGs and C10s and Bel Airs, none of them are fast by today’s standards, but they still have huge followings. So why does the Corolla get demonized?
You’re right, that is strange. I drove one a couple weeks ago. Rental-spec so I could thrash it mercilessly. I didn’t find the seats good. I found the engine just sort of “there”. It wasn’t begging to go to 6500rpm, it just HAD to be there. And once it got there it didn’t do anything with it. Didn’t have any paddles that I remember so I can’t judge there. The car didn’t feel heavy to me. Mostly, it didn’t feel anything at all. The steeling was numb, the handling was numb, the acceleration was numb (seriously, I’ve never felt the sensation of gaining speed LESS. Not even in a ‘97 Jetta GL with most of the horses out of the stable. A base auto Fiesta is a piece of shit. It’s got the handling but nothing else. It doesn’t qualify as a sport compact. The Corolla is lightyears behind the Fiesta in any measure of “sporty”. You’re partially right here—it’s not fast—but it most definitely does NOT feel fast either. The Corolla gets demonized because it’s a lump of steaming shit and most of the people who buy them have no idea how to drive.
On that last point—one impression I came away with that wasn’t negative (it wasn’t positive either, just puzzling) was that this thing DOES have at least the bare minimum power required to get out of it’s own way. Just. Which makes the behaviour of those who drive them even more perplexing.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
05/16/2017 at 23:11, STARS: 0
the REASON that we do this, is mainly........warranty. about the only time that a car gets modified to “fun” levels, is when the new car warranty has fallen off. and where is that on a corolla? these days people buy a WARRANTY with four wheels and an engine attached.
also one of the reasons that i try to not touch a newer ECONOMY car in search of performance, is that it is easier to start with something that has “better” potential to do what you are asking out of it.
i can see what you are saying though......
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
05/16/2017 at 23:11, STARS: 1
The Corolla up to a few years ago was at least a half-decent appliance, too. I’ll give it that, no matter how much I hate them. I took drivers ed in one, and it was a solid little car, albeit boring and meh and more boring and a little drab as well.
The new one... they’ve put some effort into styling it for the first time in it’s entire existence and in the process forgotten about everything else. It’s a horrible piece of shit.
"TheDutchTexan" (TheDutchTexan)
05/16/2017 at 23:17, STARS: 3
It is simple. Because it used to be an exiting rear wheel drive car that they turned into a front wheel drive commuter pleaser. A co-worker has one that is a few model years old. It’s comfortable, but not sporty at all.
It is the same reason why I dislike the new impala. Going from rear wheel drive to front is blasphemy. If it starts out front wheel drive it’s OK. (Think Focus, Fiesta, Golf, Civic). But if it ditches rear wheel drive for front wheel drive? Forget about it. When people say impala I automatically think 1996 impala SS. Not the crap that is on the road now.
"404 - User No Longer Available" (toni-cipriani)
05/16/2017 at 23:17, STARS: 0
Nothing wrong with appliance cars. I had a blast driving a mediocre Micra.
"boxrocket" (boxrocket)
05/16/2017 at 23:26, STARS: 0
We rag on the milquetoast Corollas and Sentras of the world because better options exist that are designed from the start to cater to our needs/desires, and it’s a massive relief knowing some company sunk hundreds of millions of dollars into a experience so that we don’t have to. Why settle for a Corolla/Sentra/Civic when a Mazda3 and Ford Focus (and even the Forte and Elantra, in fairness) are more exciting and don’t reek of corporate “good enough”-ness?
Sure, the modern Corolla is leaps and bounds better in almost every way than the best compact car from 20 years ago, but it’s still just a let-down and feels like you’re just accepting the status quo instead of rising above it. It’s impersonal, common, and - frankly - dull. I enjoy driving a Yaris over a Corolla because the Yaris feels like a clean, minimalist approach to basic transportation: I love that it has a single large wiper, and that it feels light and pared-down. It’s still somewhat appliance-like, but more like a simple, reliable toaster that does its best job every day; in contrast: a Corolla-like handheld corded electric mixer/egg-beater, which drones along doing its job, not as sexily as that robust industrial-strength Kitchen-Aid/Hobart stand mixer with all the attachments from the list, nor as interestingly as the shiny new infrared microwave that cooks a slab of meat in the time the old microwave did a bag of peas. You can push the handheld mixer closer to the reaches of its potential, but you stand a good chance of making a big mess, but if you don’t push it a little, your recipe ends up lumpy.
"boxrocket" (boxrocket)
05/16/2017 at 23:30, STARS: 0
Same with the Malibu?
"Pacer Racer" (pacerracer)
05/16/2017 at 23:44, STARS: 0
I’m going to guess the rental you had wasn’t the SE model, hence the lack of paddles and sport seats. I will say, I didn’t take this thing above 40 when I drove it, so on the highway it probably feels slower and less interesting. But around town, the fact that I could drive it to 9/10s all the time was what made it fun. So maybe the lack of horsepower actually helped it, in this scenario, over an actual sports compact that I would have had to lift in.
"smobgirl" (smobgirl)
05/16/2017 at 23:53, STARS: 0
I do see your point, but I enjoy vintage cars mostly because I like the styling of the era. 80s angular economy cars? LOVE. I will by no means say that my Tercel has any sporting notions, but I love the concept of it and the quirky styling. I imagine it’s always been terrible to drive. (I also freely admit that I won’t be surprised if I like the Aztek in another 20 years - but I’m not there yet).
Also, truth be told, there are some god-awful rental spec economy cars that I love the crap out of (as rentals) that might make that list in another 20 years too. There is not a Toyota in the bunch.
"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
05/17/2017 at 00:00, STARS: 0
I think the “rep” of a car accounts for almost 60% of what people think of it. I’ve driven my mom’s ‘08 Camrey plenty of times, and I wouldn’t say it’s a complete bland mobile. The steering’s actually pretty good. It’s not heavy, but the weight builds up and goes with tire grip. It has lot’s of grip for what it is. Putting it in sport mode takes it to redline anytime your past half throttle. Granted it is a very insulated ride, not much sense of speed.
Also something else I wanna point out. I put the seat as far down as it can go, and that makes a HUGE difference in how the car feels.
In general I just put very little stock into the popular opinion. Some people say the FiST and FoST have excellent steering, other say it’s numb and the biggest downside. Similar story with the GTI. The press and many people love it. But some people say it’s boring and too insulating.
"Nothing" (nothingatalluseful)
05/17/2017 at 00:36, STARS: 0
A plebeian 4 door car will not have a following. Quick, picture an early 90s Civic. What comes to mind? Hatches, CRX Si, quirky AWD wagon, but not the 4 door. Good car, forgettable car. Maybe good memories as a car you had in your youth, but seldom hunted out.
The 240 was at least a moderately desirable car upon its release that was well received critically. Once another generation discovered it as an inexpensive well balanced RWD platform, well...its popularity soared.
Overall, I’m with you though. Most cars have redeeming qualities. I’ve seldom been in a new vehicle where I felt I was driving an utter pile of crap.
"Monkey B" (monkeyb)
05/17/2017 at 01:04, STARS: 0
you kinda said what I was going to...it’s hard to buy a bad car now. I’ve been driving since 1990 and have driven just about everything out there (in the car biz) and owned around 50 different cars of all kinds. Even a low powered sub-compact with a manual will come close in real world fun feel of an old hot hatch.
As for the 240sx example...Americans like straight line performance and the Fast and Furious fad was a few years away. As tacky is the shit was it did open the states up to a broader car culture. As such I think the modern equivalent would be very much revered.
"Brian McKay" (brianmckay)
05/17/2017 at 01:26, STARS: 0
“flat out” under “40" k.p.h. or m.p.h.?
Sounds thrilling.
"RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars" (rallydarkstrike)
05/17/2017 at 05:41, STARS: 0
I have a ‘soul-destroying’ 2009 Accent, base model with absolutely no features (not even ABS!). I find it fun to thrash and yes, it’s slow...but it’s peppy enough and the handling isn’t too bad for an ecobox. The styling isn’t amazing, but it’s handsome enough to me...I prefer it better than all these current-gen cars that are “ANGLES AND BLACKED OUT EVERYWHERE FOR NO REASON” and bloated (the Civic just keeps getting bigger and bigger to me...). The interior isn’t amazing either....a sea of black plastic, but it’s put together well-enough. Seats aren’t terribly supportive either.
Long story short, I don’t expect it to be come a modern classic or for many people to love it, but I think it deserves a little more credit, especially in the aftermarket (which is nonexistant for them) as the handling is not bad and with a few mods, they could have decent enough power and handling as an AutoX car or something.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
05/17/2017 at 07:59, STARS: 0
Regardless, I can’t see anything beyond the engine really changing much. Seats and paddles aren’t really anything more than stick-on changes fwiw. The lack of power and the fact that you had to be on 10/10 all the time certainly didn’t help this one. I’d take pretty much any car on the planet over it.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
05/17/2017 at 08:07, STARS: 1
Km/h would not surprise me. Horrible little piles of garbage.
"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
05/17/2017 at 09:51, STARS: 0
The strange thing is, I was having a blast in this 4door, front-drive Corolla.
I’m sure you were, but have you ever driven the competition? You can have fun in every car imaginable. Some are better than others though, and without knowing the competition it’s hard to make a comparison.
I’ve never driven the current Corolla. It isn’t even available new in my market. I have driven older Corollas though. Despite the excellent condition the last one I drove was in I truly despised the way it drove compared to the much older/6x the mileage/lower hp Golf I had at the time. And I don’t even like VWs. The Corolla had no steering feel, no chassis communication and a horrible interior. It’ll never be an enthusiast car.
"RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire" (ricerocketeer2)
05/17/2017 at 11:36, STARS: 0
To each his own, I guess.
I didn’t mean to be too rude with the earlier comment. I haven’t driven the current Corolla so I can’t say anything about that particular one, but the previous Corollas I’ve driven have been pretty numb.
What I want from a car as a supposed enthusiast is some kind of connection or feedback, like how if you hold a pen and poke something with it, the sensation is that the pen is part of your hand.
Rant mode on, since this is a reply to a comment in a day old post and nobody else is going to read it ...
Wife’s late model Infiniti, for example. Plenty of power, but step on the gas and the computer tries to figure out how much it should give you. Then it opens the throttle, waits to see if you want more, drops a gear or two, then the turbos spool up, then the car starts going. Steering is accurate but numb. What else is new.
I used to think cars would get better as time went on, but that depends on who’s defining “better” now.
"TheDutchTexan" (TheDutchTexan)
05/21/2017 at 00:49, STARS: 1
Pretty much yeah!