by "Chairman Kaga" (mike-mckinnon)
Published 05/15/2017 at 11:04
by "Chairman Kaga" (mike-mckinnon)
Published 05/15/2017 at 11:04
No Tags
STARS: 5
I came up with a new plan, wife approved, to sell both of my cars (yes, my Alfa too - long story) and this fall-ish get a new daily driver that’s not, however comfortable, specifically designed to be non-threatening to middle-aged, middle-management Japanese men who think a BMW is too hardcore, nor a boring 3-box economobile .
Obviously I want a GTI. I drove a 2017 SE, which is probably the trim I’d go for, and fell in love. I drove a mvVII a couple of years ago, but it was a base model without the performance pack. Did have a manual, though. This was a DSG, which is, frankly, the one I want. This car was different than the original mkVII. So little torque steer that I didn’t care. Super tight chassis. Comfortable. Driving modes that produce noticeable changes. Excellent ergonomics and interior quality. Gutsy little motor. Slam bang gearshifts. Stunningly good brakes. I wanted it.
But I’m tempted by the Golf R. We can afford it, that’s not a problem. Is it worth an $8k premium though? Chris Harris says so. Matt Farrah says so. Lots of people say so. And they’d know, because they got to drive one.
Not me, though. Even speaking withe manager, explaining it was really down to the GTI or the R, he said no. He explained if I liked the GTI, then I’d love the R. I’d essentially already driven the R, anyway - it’s really just faster than the GTI. To which I replied that’s not enough to convince me then. He cam back with sales points on the DCC and the handling and the AWD (well, Haldex, but close enough). Again, I said I couldn’t decide without driving it. He sort of shrugged and said it’s corporate policy and there’s nothing he could do about it.
He then suggested I go uptown to Audi and test drive a new S3. It’s the same car, albeit many thousand dollars more. If I liked that car then I’d know I liked the Golf R.
I said that’s stupid. I mean, it makes some practical sense. But Jesus man, what sort of sales strategy and customer service is that? You’re interested in buying our car so drive across town and try a competitor’s (even if it’s the same company) to find out if you like it? And stupidly enough, when I called Audi and told them this, the sales manager laughed and said come on over, and he’d even try to work some deals in financing and with my trade to cover most of the different between the two cars (still almost $7k, but still)! He even has a CPO lease return for the same price the VW dealer wants for the R.
I experienced this years ago when the WRX STI came out. The dealer wouldn’t even let you sit in it. It just sat on the showroom floor with its doors locked, until someone paid $40k for it, sight unseen, much less an actual test drive. I’m going to call around and try to find some dealer somewhere within a short distance of Austin who’s willing to let me drive one. But again, I reiterate, this is ridiculous. I’m 42 years old, I have a clean driving record, full-coverage insurance, an above average salary for the metro area, and I know many things about the car; more than the salesperson (no Haldex isn’t full-time AWD just like a Subaru, and yes, the R has adjustable magnetic ride, which the GTI does not).
I call shenanigans.
"arl" (arl1968)
05/15/2017 at 11:13, STARS: 4
Total shenanigans. I would call other dealers. And call customer service at VW corporate to complain.
"Vicente Esteve" (vicente-esteve)
05/15/2017 at 11:13, STARS: 6
I hate that dealerships do this and can’t comprehend how someone could spend 40k on a product they don’t know they like.
They do the same thing in Mexico, the worst ofender being Mazda that won’t let you sit in a base MX-5 because they are ‘exotic’.
"BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo" (bluemazda2)
05/15/2017 at 11:16, STARS: 1
If I, a 19 year old, am allowed to test drive a Macan S or a 440i M Sport, there’s no reason on the face of this earth YOU shouldn’t be able to test drive a Golf R. I was given the opportunity to test drive one about six months ago when I took in the Passat in for a problem under warranty, but politely declined because I honestly wanted to go to lunch as I’d been at the dealership for 6 hours.
"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
05/15/2017 at 11:16, STARS: 2
A lousy VW dealership experience? Madness. Madness I say!
"Honeybunchesofgoats" (honeybunche0fgoats)
05/15/2017 at 11:16, STARS: 2
I know why they do it, but that doesn’t change the fact that I wouldn’t be willing to spend a cent at a dealership that would let me test drive a car I was serious about buying.
"ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)" (adabofoppo)
05/15/2017 at 11:18, STARS: 1
A former cow-orker has an R. I have a GTI SE (with plaid seats; long story it’s in my history here).
A Golf R is completely worth the extra money. DCC does make a huge difference. The extra push from the back wheels is noticeable. Cow-orker had his fully stage-2; downpipe, 93-only tune. That car was Felony Fast- as in by the time you get to 3rd gear, you’ve committed a felony on anything but the Autobahn.
I have the PP on my GTI. It’s a great package, but the R is simply the perfect Golf.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
05/15/2017 at 11:19, STARS: 1
Find another VW dealer. Also, I got to test drive and review one because my friend bought one and very kindly offered it to me.
"BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo" (bluemazda2)
05/15/2017 at 11:20, STARS: 1
Paging JKM and BlueMazd...wait that’s me.
"Bryan doesn't drive a 1M" (bryantakespictures)
05/15/2017 at 11:22, STARS: 1
That is ridiculous. Try another dealer. The dealer I went to got me in an R and test driving within 15 minutes.
The dealer I went to to test the Focus RS wouldn’t give test drives (of a $35k car) of the RS, but they would give test drives of Mustang GT Premiums ($40k+ cars). Idiots.
Keep looking for a test drive of the Golf R. It’s fantastic.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
05/15/2017 at 11:22, STARS: 1
Shit, this is insane. Other than calling around to other dealers and venting to VW corporate, though, I don’t have a lot of brilliant suggestions. Maybe CarMax has a MkVII R or Turo does? I’d hate to pay $ to Turo for that, though. I’m interested to hear if you have success, though - I’ll be shopping for a car in a year (lease expiry), and am likely to be in a very similar position.
"Dave the car guy , still here" (a3dave)
05/15/2017 at 11:22, STARS: 1
A friend went through the same type of BS at Chevy dealers when the C6 Z06 came out. One Virginia Beach dealer wanted about $20k over retail. Sometimes car shopping is such a pain.
"Stapleface" (patrickgruden)
05/15/2017 at 11:23, STARS: 1
Yeah, that’s pure bullshit. As was mentioned elsewhere, I’d call/email VW Corporate as well and give them an earful. After the diesel scandal they should be falling over themselves to anyone that walks in the door.
Years ago I worked at a Dodge dealership and only the sales manager was allowed to take the Viper out. And that made sense to me. But a Golf R? Really? What the hell did this dealer do when the Phaeton was out? Make you pay in full before looking at it?
"Jason Spears" (shadestalker)
05/15/2017 at 11:28, STARS: 3
VW: We’ve made so many friends recently, we can afford to offend people for no reason.
"bmil128" (bmil128)
05/15/2017 at 11:28, STARS: 0
It’s dealer BS. My brother in law ran into this with a certain dealer in Houston to look at the STI back around ‘05, to get out of his Mustang GT, they wouldn’t let you test drive it without completing a credit app, they said if you want to test drive go to this other dealer, they will let you do it all day but we don’t want to have people joy riding in our cars. I had to talk him out of filling one out and he’s better off for it. Go somewhere else.
"WRXforScience" (WRXforScience)
05/15/2017 at 11:30, STARS: 2
The only car I know you could not test drive was the Nissan GTR, my uncle worked at a Nissan dealership and they didn’t allow any test drives (this was back during the early model R35 with the weak transmissions, which might have been a factor).
The Golf R and the Subaru STi (maybe with the Focus RS, but I’ve never been to a Ford dealer) often discourage test drives. There are a few reasons (and at least one legitimate):
1. They only have ones that have already sold, the high demand and low inventory sometimes the only one(s) on the lot are already spoken for.
2. Every flat-biller in a 3 state radius wants to test drive it and none of them can afford one even with an 81 month loan.
3. They don’t want to sell the only model they have yet.
The dealer should be able to tell that you are a legitimate customer and they should be upfront with why you cannot test drive the car. The R does drive nearly identically to the GTi, but with more power and a little more grip at launch. The Golf R does not hold up well to track work, and can be temperamental for even autocross.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
05/15/2017 at 11:41, STARS: 0
I find that dealers do this with certain cars that are A) likely to be targets for joyriders and B) sell in small quantities where they can eventually get someone to buy it without a test drive. There’s also a certain element of keeping miles off cars on the lot if they only have one or a small number of them.
They’re shooting themselves in the foot if it’s a car that takes actual work to sell. They’re also shooting themselves in the foot if they pull the “no test drives” crap with someone who is unlikely to be a joyrider and likely to be a serious buyer.
As for the Golf R, do you want a sunroof? Because to get a sunroof on a Golf R you need to get an S3.
"Chairman Kaga" (mike-mckinnon)
05/15/2017 at 11:47, STARS: 5
Be that as it may, I will never ever ever buy a car that I can’t test drive. I don’t care if Jeremy Clarkson himself floated down from the ether and said, “My son, this is the one you want,” I ain’t signing anything.
"LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com" (limitedtimeonly)
05/15/2017 at 11:51, STARS: 0
But . . . you can get DCC on the GTI.
Plus, when I was buying last year, I was able to negotiate on the GTI, not on the R, so the price difference for a similarly equipped car was more than $10k, and I decided it wasn’t worth it for my uses.
"ToyotaFamily" (robbav35)
05/15/2017 at 11:52, STARS: 0
Yeah, find another dealer. Even when I had just turned 18 I never had a problem test driving any car. If not, CarMax is always a good choice, provided they have a Golf R at one near you.
"FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem" (fuelstratifiedinjection)
05/15/2017 at 11:56, STARS: 0
Is this common practice in the US? What the hell is it with dealerships not letting people test drive cars or even ordering cars to their wish? Please enlighten me, I’ve never heard of that here in Europe.
"ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)" (adabofoppo)
05/15/2017 at 12:02, STARS: 0
The R is built better. They are all made in Germany. The Mexican-assembled Golf has issues. I have severe condensation issues when outside temps drop below freezing and I use the defrost. My driver window switch lost the auto-up/down function yesterday. I have issues with sloppy shifts/syncros/bushings when the red mist appears- I consistently have a hard time getting 2nd, even with a double-declutch and a rev-match.
My few times driving that R everything; literally everything, felt assembled correctly. It was not coddled and nothing squeaked or rattled. (Now I do have a sunroof and the R does not have that option so that would make a huge difference between my car and that R) The R is the perfect Golf. It is shows how incredibly well VW can assemble and engineer cars when they try.
Or another way to think of it; You can get an Audi for thouands off. The R is so well built it might as well be an Audi; just without the pricetag and accompanying danger to the Top Gear “cock-ometer”.
"BREADwagon" (BREADwagon)
05/15/2017 at 12:03, STARS: 2
100% shenanigans, and tell the dealer he just lost a $40k sale. The same thing happened to me when i was cross shopping the FocuST, GTI and WRX...the first Subaru dealer said it was policy that they don’t allow WRX/STi test drives, but they would let me drive a base impreza to get the feel of it. I laughed in his face, then immediately called another dealership. I told the salesman at the other dealership what happened, and what I’m looking for...he responded by saying it’s not a problem, and we should set up a time for me to come in. I’m glad I test drove it, because the scooby was number one on my short list before....then dropped to last after I drove it casually on the street.
The one pointer I would give would be to dress in business casual. If you’re well presented, they wont think you are just trying to get a joyride out of the deal.
Not only that, I would never buy a car that I didn’t specifically test drive (I wouldn’t buy another Golf R that I never drove even if I had driven another Golf R before). The one they are trying to sell to you could be the very rare lemon.
"Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle" (1500sand535)
05/15/2017 at 12:19, STARS: 0
I’d find the next closest dealer with a gti and r in stock; and assuming it’s within a reasonable distance call and tell them whoever you buy from is going to have to let you try both and ask If they will. Then call the first dealer and say, either I can come now and try the r or _______ is getting my sale.
"TechBro" (techbro88)
05/15/2017 at 12:25, STARS: 0
Yeah it’s bullshit. Most dealers I asked wouldn’t let me test drive the ones they have because they claim buyers don’t want someone else driving their car before them (apparently ppl are buying them sight unseen). Also, the R doesn’t have magnetic ride, it uses mechanical adaptive suspension.
"jasmits" (jasmits)
05/15/2017 at 12:26, STARS: 0
Sometimes a dealer decides some performance car is too much of a target for joyriders and/or too much for people to handle and forbids people from test driving them. Which is absurd when all you need is a pulse to test drive a 400 hp Mustang GT that is infinitely more likely to bite someone in the ass than a hopped up AWD anything.
It boggles my mind that someone would buy any car, especially a performance car, without being allowed to drive it. Do they not get that a car like that is about the driving experience and someone would want to be sure they liked it before purchasing it?
"FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem" (fuelstratifiedinjection)
05/15/2017 at 12:31, STARS: 0
I’m sure dealerships here would also not allow every dipshit who walks into the showroom to drive an expensive car, but not letting potential buyers test drive certain cars is fucking stupid. Hopefully Tesla’s direct sales will make stealerships wake up.
"jasmits" (jasmits)
05/15/2017 at 12:47, STARS: 1
Yea I mean it makes sense to turn away some random dude walking in and immediately asking to test drive the fastest car in the dealership but it should be pretty obvious when someone’s a serious buyer. If I just want a joyride I’m not going to spend hours speccing the GTI and the R, driving the GTI, comparing the two etc.
I’ve never had a positive experience at a dealer as a buyer, though I’ve only ever looked at used cars(never bought though, yet to buy a car not from CL).
Luxury dealers do seem to do a good job, I tagged along with my mom when she bought a Lexus and the salesmen were well-informed and not at all pushy. BMW too, 21-year-old me dressed in filthy wrenching clothes was treated as a prospective customer when I walked into the dealership looking for the radio code for my E36.
"WRXforScience" (WRXforScience)
05/15/2017 at 13:12, STARS: 1
I totally agree. I won’t buy a car I can’t test drive either. Personally, I prefer the GTi to the R anyway. The R isn’t too bad if you just plan to lease it and leave it, but the GTi is the only Volkswagen I’d actually buy and keep for more than 3 years (or however long the warranty is).
"PWRandSPD" (Pwrandspd)
05/15/2017 at 13:24, STARS: 0
I have not test drive a car in a while, but a few years ago when I was between a GTI and an R, the salesman just gave me the keys and set me loose. He did not even go with me. I had been in and out of the dealership talking to the sales guy for about 6 months before pulling the trigger, but each time I went in, he gave me the keys and set me free for either car. Different market and dealer choices I guess. (I ended up with the GTI)
Different dealer and quite some time ago, I was comparing the STI and the Evo, this was in 2004 when they had just come out. I was in my 20's and they still let me test drive. The dealership had both cars so I was able to drive them back to back, no questions. The only thing they would not do on the STI was negotiate the price. Test drives however, no problem.
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
05/15/2017 at 16:11, STARS: 0
It’s bullshit. Come drive a GLA45 or even an SL63 or whatever you want. No one will care, unless the only ones in stock are sold or buried in the showroom and require a bunch of effort to pull out, in which case be prepared to prove your seriousness. It’s a bullshit move that low-line dealers pull, presumably to make their uncommon (not rare mind you) performance models more enticing.
"Chairman Kaga" (mike-mckinnon)
05/15/2017 at 17:04, STARS: 0
I found a used 2016 with 8k miles literally 4 miles from the dealer in question. Driving it tomorrow, although they do want $37k for it...
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
05/15/2017 at 19:36, STARS: 0
That’s nuts! MSRP is less than that! At least you will know if it’s what you want instead of a GTI.
"911e46z06" (911e46z06)
05/16/2017 at 02:28, STARS: 0
I got this bullshit with a Chrysler 300C when it was new. Only time it’s ever happened to me. They said I could drive a Charger instead.
I’ve always been tempted to stick my head in the dealership and ask them how that expensive new expansion they built when the 300 was relevant is working out for them now that their flagship is an afterthought that hasn’t been redesigned in over a decade.
"Chairman Kaga" (mike-mckinnon)
05/16/2017 at 09:34, STARS: 1
That’s the only reason I’m driving it. It has DCC, which is standard on the R but was optional for the 15-16 model years. But I won’t be in the market until later this year, probably closer to Thanksgiving.
"Chairman Kaga" (mike-mckinnon)
05/16/2017 at 15:09, STARS: 0
Ha. So I drove it, and it WAS immaculate. Even smelled new. The salesman said they are sort of a “country club” dealer and it’s not unusual for their customers to not even keep new cars for a year. He has one lady who trades in as soon as it loses the new car smell. Anyway, they actually wanted $40k for it, which was “about $3k under where they could sell it,” so I talked to them no more.
And honestly, I’m having real trouble deciding, even with an actual fair price, if the R is worth $8k more than the GTI Autobahn.
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
05/16/2017 at 16:10, STARS: 0
That’s nuts. But someone will buy it eventually.
Personally I would use AWD and trackability as deciding factors. Do you intend to drive it up snowy mountains? Are you going to race/auto-x it?
If it’s just a fun DD I would go for the GTI. Put the extra money in the bank for when it breaks out of warranty
Oh and yeah I’ve driven both. The extra money isn’t worth it to me.
"SantaRita" (SantaRita)
06/29/2017 at 12:31, STARS: 0
where in Arkansas are you, i may know some people who would let you get some seat time.
fwiw, i think its worth the premium, but you willalso find amazing deas on slightly used ones that narrow the gap.
50% more power, 50% more traction, more exclusive and only 150lbs more. My tuned a3 and even stock GTI spin the tires. the R just goes hard. Also gas mileage is worlds better than the STI because its not constantly engaged and using the rear driveline unless its needed. It’s like the system saab first used had in their turbox.
"Theo Kimera" (kimeratheo)
04/18/2018 at 22:56, STARS: 1
So I had the same dilema. They didn’t let me drive the Golf R. I was going to lease or buy (debating on tuning upgrades) an R, I also have a 800+ credit score and salary above normal. I explained to the dealer that if I was going pay 42,000 for a car I needed to drive it first. He said no. That night I went home saw a video on a Mini Cooper JCW with the performance exhaust. So I got a Mini Cooper JCW with Performance Exhaust and tuned it. Sounds amazing, goes fast and Now I have a smile on my face every time i step in the car!
"Chairman Kaga" (mike-mckinnon)
04/19/2018 at 11:08, STARS: 0
Yup. I ended up with a 2017 GTI SE DSG at a CRAZY discount (brand new but leftover ‘17 stickered at $33,100, sold for $24,750, although I had to buy it in Atlanta and have it transported to Austin) and honestly, given the constraints of my daily commute, cannot imagine I’d be $15,000 happier with the R.
I love this car.