by "HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
Published 05/09/2017 at 11:46
by "HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
Published 05/09/2017 at 11:46
No Tags
STARS: 3
So we gave the NoxBox back to VW and we still don’t have a replacement. We still don’t know what we want to replace it. So we shop. I hate car shopping. I hate dealing with people, because shopping for cars isn’t shopping for cars, its negotiating with people who sell a thing you want...people who see you and the car as nothing more than commission, or in rare case, just another part of the commissionless 9-5.
They don’t see you as dropping a ton of money on something you will grow attached to, depend on, and spend a large part of your life in.
Im not saying salesman are bad people, I just don’t like dealing with people, and especially people who’s job it is to sell me something.
I’ve already had some very annoying experiences. Mostly involving one of 2 things:
Annoying salespeople who don’t know what they are talking about
Promising a car to see and then not having it. This has happened 3 times.
This is a 4runner, its got the rare 3rd row, its something we’re interested in so let me tell you about what it took to get these pictures and a very short, wet test drive.
Get a call Thursday night at home, on the john, I hang up, they call back cause it must be important...
I set up an appointment Friday to see it, I tell me wife to bring the kids to meet me, they know Im coming.
The guy isn’t there
The car isn’t there, its in “getting scratches repaired”. at the body shop.
I’m told it will be ready to show that night and to expect a call.
No call
Im call back saturday to follow up, he’s very busy and will check into it and call me back.
No call.
I call Monday, they go check, they come back and they say its here, and its ready for me to come see anytime.
I say I’ll be there in 20 minutes
20 minutes later I show up...its not ready for me to see.
They take me back to the detail shop to see it as its being cleaned.
its obvious that no body work or scratch repair has taken place, the outside is dirty and scratched up.
I tell them to throw some plastic on the seats and meet me out front, Im driving it.
They do
Its out of gas so we have to ride along to get gas
I now no longer have time to test drive it properly...
However, I did discover what sales team I hate, and that I actually don’t want a 4Runner.
25 grand for V6 114k miles, cloth seats, scratched exterior and more rust than my cruiser...or...18 grand for 70k mile, fully loaded V8, much better condition Lexus GX470. And the Lexus, while not a looker, is much better on the inside to see out of of be in.
Stupid 4runner tax is not worth paying.
"Phyrxes once again has a wagon!" (phyrxes)
05/09/2017 at 11:49, STARS: 0
While not as bad as the Taco tax the 4runner tax is still dumb given the other vehicles in the segment.
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
05/09/2017 at 11:50, STARS: 0
When I bought my Subaru I looked at a 2010 4runner with 25k on the ODO, no third row seats. Out the door for $31k, in excellent condition. I should have bought it.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 11:50, STARS: 0
There aren’t THAT many vehicles left in its segment though, just the wrangler basically, and the GX if you know about it.
"Phyrxes once again has a wagon!" (phyrxes)
05/09/2017 at 11:52, STARS: 0
True, almost everything else has turned into a mall rated softroader.
"Tripper" (tripe46)
05/09/2017 at 11:54, STARS: 1
I feel your pain. I bought my Ranger on Saturday from the most stereotypical south Jersey, used car lot ever... It took 6 fucking hours. The guy bribed me with 40 bucks to write positive reviews on the dealer on a bunch of different sites. Which I obviously took lol.
My buddy was like, “dude that dealer you got the ranger from is supposed to be the best dealer in NJ!”... I said, “oh yea? Do you want to know why? because there is a secret!”
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
05/09/2017 at 11:57, STARS: 0
Geez, that’s absolutely ridiculous. How does that dealer ever sell a car??
"adamftw" (adamftw)
05/09/2017 at 11:57, STARS: 1
TAHOE.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 11:57, STARS: 1
Ugh, I don’t even want to think about the torture of the buying process itself. Also LOL to when people ask for positive reviews. If I have a great experience, I’ll give you a positive review, if I have a so/so experience and you say nothing I will keep my mouth shut. If I have ANYTHING but a great experience AND you ask me to write a positive review I’m going to write 100% of what I feel. In that honest review I will be sure to include the fact that I was asked to write a positive review and its likely that all the other positives reviews are here for the same reason. Its not worth the risk to ask me to shill for you.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 11:59, STARS: 1
They are a HUGE dealer too, I mean most dealers are lucky to get a single Land Cruiser, they have like 6 on the lot. Larry would be rolling in his grave.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 11:59, STARS: 0
To big. WAY too big.
"Tripper" (tripe46)
05/09/2017 at 12:02, STARS: 0
Amen. “not worth the risk” is the convo I had with my father about the situation. My experience was positive, but there are plenty of ways for that experience to take a nose dive in the days after a sale...in which case I would be on the war path.
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
05/09/2017 at 12:03, STARS: 0
I’ve been through this with both Subaru sales and Subaru service. When asked why I wouldn’t give them a five-start rating, the conversation went something like this:
ME: “This isn’t a Mercedes dealership, is it?”
SALESGUY: “Ummm, no.”
ME: “Don’t you think there’s a different level of service over at Mercedes? Isn’t there a reason their cars cost four times as much?”
SALESGUY: “I suppose so, but we aren’t Mercedes!”
ME: “Exactly! How can I give you five stars when I’m not getting five star service? If I give you four stars, then you have something to strive for!”
SALESGUY: “I see your point....”
"adamftw" (adamftw)
05/09/2017 at 12:03, STARS: 1
If you’re looking at a 4Runner with 3 rows to be a kiddo hauler, no such thing as too big. I’m really enjoying the width in my Chevy.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 12:07, STARS: 0
Sure there is, its called “garage size”
"adamftw" (adamftw)
05/09/2017 at 12:08, STARS: 1
My truck doesn’t fit in there either, that’s why I have big driveway.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 12:10, STARS: 0
I have, surprisingly, and even smaller driveway
"adamftw" (adamftw)
05/09/2017 at 12:11, STARS: 1
Utah suddenly seems so much less appealing.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 12:12, STARS: 0
Nothing to see out here anyway, definitely no reason to move...
"TDIGuy" (owenrosier)
05/09/2017 at 12:13, STARS: 0
I love 4Runners but I agree, 4Runner tax is too high. Sometimes I think that they are over hyped for the reliability. New they are a good price but the used prices are nuts. My brother drives a 2004 4Runner with 220K miles on it but we owned it since new.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 12:14, STARS: 0
I mean, for 5 grand more I can get into 200 series territory, not that many more miles either. Sorry you want HOW much?
"TahoeSTi" (tahoesti)
05/09/2017 at 12:15, STARS: 2
Outback....but I think the root of your issue is aren’t obeying the oppo rule: Always be car shopping. If you are always car shopping then when you *need a **new car you already have an obsession. The other option is just to buy a new but fixed 2015 TDI
sportswagon
.
*Need: More cars are always needed, just
depends
how much snow you have to remove to park it and keep it.
**New car: newish, new to you, a frame of what used to be a new car.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 12:17, STARS: 0
We’ve ruled the outback...um...out. Neither of us like the new models.
My wife is having a crisis trying to determine how much bigger she wants her new car to be only one thing is certain: bigger than the outgoing one...which rules out new sportwagens. We test drove a 2015 passat TDI though. WAY overpriced.
"TahoeSTi" (tahoesti)
05/09/2017 at 12:18, STARS: 1
Why go bigger? Smaller is the trend havn’t you heard sports cars will save the auto industry.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 12:20, STARS: 1
Carpool.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
05/09/2017 at 12:21, STARS: 0
The most important thing about test drives is what they help me rule out. There have been several cars I thought I wanted, only to have my test drive tell me otherwise. The smart car dealer really should do everything he can to make the experience a good one.
For my part, I only go out to test cars when I have plenty of time on a good day to give the cars a proper chance. I know myself, and if it’s a dreary day, or I’m in a bad mood or rushed, the car will take the blame.
If I wanted a 4runner, and I had your experience, it would sink it for me. Your dealer was a stupid.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 12:25, STARS: 1
My dealer is stupid, but I did have plenty of time to test drive it before they gave me the runaround with the detailing and gas.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
05/09/2017 at 12:28, STARS: 1
That’s what I mean, you left yourself a good block and scheduled it properly, and they ruined it. That’s why they’re stupid.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 12:28, STARS: 1
yup yup.
"PotbellyJoe and 42 others" (potbellyjoe)
05/09/2017 at 12:40, STARS: 0
I was reading this and going, “Just go check out a GX...”
Meanwhile, and don’t kill me, but used Durango pentastar .
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 12:42, STARS: 0
My wife wont get near a dodge with a 10 foot pole, on account of them being hideous to her. Im actually glad, I have no interest in an FCA.
"PotbellyJoe and 42 others" (potbellyjoe)
05/09/2017 at 12:43, STARS: 0
No worries. It’s one of the few trucks they actually figured out, but I understand the sentiment.
"TahoeSTi" (tahoesti)
05/09/2017 at 12:45, STARS: 0
My wife and I carpool every day, her office is about a mile from mine..... yet i somehow still “need” more than 2 cars....
"TahoeSTi" (tahoesti)
05/09/2017 at 12:46, STARS: 0
Car pool answer here https://littlepassengerseats.com/ ....haha
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 12:49, STARS: 1
kid carpool. We only have 2 kids but to make the carpool work you need to be able to take more than 3. It saves her a considerable amount of time, seeing as how my oldest’s school is a 15 minute drive one way. I’ve always railed against the idea of having a big car for 2 kids and im still not sold on the idea of buying a big car for other people’s kids sake...but...it really does affect her life to do it this way, and its her car so...I guess we’ll see.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 12:51, STARS: 1
I need to find that FJC picture I was talking about last night. I was actually looking at these thinking about it. Then I thought “$900 for something made with MDF?”
EDIT: found it.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
05/09/2017 at 12:52, STARS: 0
The GX is the right call. I like 4Runners (had a 3rd gen), and love the rear window, but aside from the newest gen, I think I would get a GX470 instead.
"diplodicus" (diplodicus)
05/09/2017 at 12:53, STARS: 0
Even the older shorter wheelbase version like this? https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-Chevrolet-Tahoe-d639#listing=171722572 I always thought those were the percect 4door SUV size.
edit: That’s actually the same wheelbase as the new ones apparently. Almost identical overall length too. 4th gens are just shy of 2" longer.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 12:54, STARS: 0
The big problem, for me, with GX is: no tailgate. I actually really really like the XC90 layout. I just have a hard time buying a volvo.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 12:55, STARS: 0
Yeah, too long, too wide, too tall. Too much.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
05/09/2017 at 12:58, STARS: 0
Yeah, that’s one of the few things I don’t like about it. But then again, so few SUVs come with tailgates anymore, its hard to hold it against them.
I like the XC90 too, but I would be very worried about repairs and maintenance. I guess a warranty would be required.
"TDIGuy" (owenrosier)
05/09/2017 at 13:01, STARS: 0
Yeah I mean don’t get me wrong I am a huge Toyota truck fanboy but I agree that is crazy money for a car that is 7 years old and has about half the miles it will see on it. But there are plenty of people who are willing to pay it.
"Discerning" (discerning2003c5z)
05/09/2017 at 13:01, STARS: 0
I’ve been looking at new 4runners lately and I suggested to my GF that we look at the GX. Her quick response after showing her pictures of it:
NO
The used 4runner tax is very real - which is part of the reason I’m considering buying one new in the first place.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 13:02, STARS: 0
...which is the kicker...trying to find one with warranty and decent miles (period, let alone in utah) is difficult.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 13:03, STARS: 0
thats the thing, even if it does have 250k life in it, its about half spent, so why is it only 1/3rd off?
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
05/09/2017 at 13:04, STARS: 0
I can imagine. I guess I would suggest figuring out what you want, then expanding the search to find the miles and warranty.
"JR1" (type35bugatti)
05/09/2017 at 13:04, STARS: 0
I second the GX. I still can’t believe how nice the interior is on mine for an 04. Are you looking for one with the sports package and KDSS?
"adamftw" (adamftw)
05/09/2017 at 13:05, STARS: 0
I think I’d go to Idaho or Nevada if I moved out west.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 13:06, STARS: 0
To be honest I couldn’t care less about KDSS or Sport package since its unlikely low range will ever even be used. In my ideal world I would want one without the air suspension in the back and without nav, but I’ll take clean and low miles first and foremost over anything else. There is a nice one on mud but I can’t get the poster to get in touch with me.
"JR1" (type35bugatti)
05/09/2017 at 13:11, STARS: 0
I figured you wouldn’t want the extra capability with the 80.
Having one without nav has it’s benefits but I miss not having bluetooth.
Not sure you are aware there are two recalls currently. One for cracks in the leather on the dash and another for the airbags. Just something to be aware of.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
05/09/2017 at 13:12, STARS: 0
Sometimes, the huge dealers are the worst. It
’
s been a long time, but I worked at a big Honda dealer for a while. In order to be hired there, you need to have a) a pulse; and b) that
’
s it
-
if you didn
’
t sell any cars, you weren
’
t getting any pay, so they didn
’
t care. There were some really good salespeople there, but a good percentage didn
’
t last more than a month or two.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 13:12, STARS: 1
yeah, I knew about the airbags, and the cracks in the dash I knew about but wasn’t aware that it was a recall...which is good news since I don’t have to worry about it myself.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
05/09/2017 at 13:14, STARS: 0
Wow. This confirms my good feelings about buying yet another car from the same place we’ve been going to for years. Here’s how the experience went from day 1.
- my wife and I see a car we like on their website, I call and ask about it.
- dealer is near my wife’s work, so she goes out and picks it up to drive home for the night on dealer plates - about an hour each way. “Bring it back whenever.” We went out that night for a nice long test drive.
- wife brings car back, we give them a list of things to look at, which they do over the next couple weeks - including putting on new tires and a nearly complete new exhaust system, fluid changes, alignment, the usual.
- when it’s ready, my wife picks it up again at lunch time with a few papers to sign, and she drives it home, leaving her car there. I sign the paperwork at home with her.
- the owner of the place drives my wife’s car to our house and his wife picks him up - they live in the next town over from us, about 5 minutes from our place. He takes the paperwork with him, done.
"TDIGuy" (owenrosier)
05/09/2017 at 13:18, STARS: 0
Exactly! In theory they are good for 200K-300K no problem but that is all with proper care. And the other thing I’ve noticed is that the condition of the trucks don’t have to be mint to fetch these prices. But yet with every other make of car the thing has to be pristine to get good money.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
05/09/2017 at 13:21, STARS: 1
the oppo rule: Always be car shopping
This. This is how I got my current wagon, it was listed by a place where we’ve bought most of our cars over the years and there weren’t even pictures yet. My then-current car had no issues at the time but just over 200k - perfect time to sell! - and I called up and said I want that car. They put SALE PENDING on the listing as the only image that ever hit their website, lol. But I wasn’t in need of a car at the time. Then I was able to take my time selling the other one on CL.
We also didn’t need the car we just bought. But guess what? It was for sale at the same place, optioned just right, and we liked it, so we scooped it up. I’ve had too many colleagues and/or friends who ended up with a car they don’t love because they were under pressure to buy
something.
My philosophy is, you’re always one swerving texter away from needing a car tomorrow.
"Tripper" (tripe46)
05/09/2017 at 13:25, STARS: 1
Yeap. There are great ones and terrible ones. Unfortunately for me, I am always chasing a vehicle rather than a dealer. I’ve purchased 14 vehicles, one as quickly as 45 minutes, and most recently as long as 6 hours.
I’d say my experience has been about 70/30 good/terrible. Some of my worst experiences have been at BMW dealers, and my best at my local Audi dealer.
The dealer where I bought my first M3 was fantastic (3rd party euro dealer). They were giving me a low offer for trade on my STi because I had just hit a deer and the insurance shop repair job was awful. When I mentioned that it had just happened, they contacted the repair shop had them fix their “fix” and gave me kbb for the trade! They even drove the STi back to the shop, and a loaner to me while they prepped the M3!
I was ready for this experience however, as I was looking for a small pickup under $10k. The dealer that I bought from was actually a lot nicer of a place than I expected to be dealing with! Still, scummy business practices.
"Michael" (mhanczyc)
05/09/2017 at 13:54, STARS: 0
I just went through the same. Wrecked my ‘07 V8 4x4 4runner, for the same money, got my butt into the cushy leather seat of a GX470.
"Michael" (mhanczyc)
05/09/2017 at 13:56, STARS: 0
You have until the end of this month for getting in line for the cracked dash. I think eligibility starts expiring may 31 for some model years
"My citroen won't start" (lucasboechat)
05/09/2017 at 14:48, STARS: 0
How about?
7 seat XC90 with Carmax Warranty.
https://www.carmax.com/car/13885574
7 seat X5 with Carmax Warranty
https://www.carmax.com/car/13407673
Another option
https://www.carmax.com/car/14470386
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 15:14, STARS: 0
Ive been eyeing that 90, but that’s pre warranty pricing. Add about 3 Grand
"My citroen won't start" (lucasboechat)
05/09/2017 at 15:23, STARS: 0
The XC90 from California is closer to 20k and the transfer to Utah is around 200 bucks, could be worth a look if you really want a XC90 with warranty. But checking the vehicle would be difficult.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 15:24, STARS: 0
Yeah, I’ve looked at that one long and hard too. It boils down to paying a lot of money for something will be worth next to nothing in 5 years. The curve for modern volvos past 80k is shocking.
"My citroen won't start" (lucasboechat)
05/09/2017 at 15:31, STARS: 0
Same thing with the XC70 it seems.
https://www.carmax.com/car/14332469
The GX seems to be the best bet if you can find one that pleases the family. I would suggest the Toureg but you seem to really need a third row. Or an R-Class.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 15:36, STARS: 0
Yeah, Volvo shopping blows.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
05/09/2017 at 16:38, STARS: 0
I wish there was some way to tell idiots that they are a waste of space and carbon without being a total douche about it, a way in which they will seriously consider my critique and make adjustments.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/09/2017 at 16:54, STARS: 0
Please take this with all respect sir but...you suck at this. Do better.
Something like that.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
05/09/2017 at 17:46, STARS: 1
yeah i think we are getting close but I think
“Please take this with all respect sir but...you suck at this. Do better. If not for people who have to deal with you by choice but for your children who are stuck with you.”
"Rufant" (rufant2)
05/10/2017 at 04:06, STARS: 0
I have worked in sales the last 6 years. Before that I did things with my hands. I never thought I could do the sales thing as I thought to be a salesperson you had to be like the ones you are encountering. Its seems to be a cultural thing, that you have smarm someone along right up to the point you screw the cash out of them, at which point move on.
What if you actually took notice of what THEIR requirements were, looked after them, tried to meet those requirements or even advise them of where else they might go to have their particular requirements better met. Then they might just come back to buy from you again, and even send their friends to see you. Then guess what? You have long term sustainable success, not to mention a more pleasant professional life. Unfortunately this takes time to yield results so many places just never get it.
The Long Ranger tank I bought from ARB, the salesman did a really sloppy job from start to finish, which I detailed to him in a calm and professional manner, at which point he blamed pretty much everyone else in the organisation. Very few see a good sales transaction as their responsibility and something that doesn’t finish with payment... Anyway, sales rant over.
Does Nissan do anything suitable over there? SLC is a Nissan focus at the moment I’m sure you saw.
LR3/4 are meant to be outstanding family wagons, but I couldn’t really recommend one to someone with a real world budget.
It’s looking more and more like the LX hey?