by "Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero" (sampsonite24)
Published 05/04/2017 at 14:41
by "Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero" (sampsonite24)
Published 05/04/2017 at 14:41
No Tags
STARS: 3
Obamacare repeal passed the house. Women and children to the lifeboats first
"That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms" (thatbastardkurtis5)
05/04/2017 at 14:43, STARS: 5
Repeal is an awful strong word for what they did. It was more of an editing.
"ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy" (bakeshake)
05/04/2017 at 14:46, STARS: 5
It won’t pass the Senate
"Bryan doesn't drive a 1M" (bryantakespictures)
05/04/2017 at 14:47, STARS: 6
I can’t fucking believe this. I hope people remember the republicans celebrating this when their loved ones are dying of preventable diseases that they can’t afford to have treated.
"Bryan doesn't drive a 1M" (bryantakespictures)
05/04/2017 at 14:48, STARS: 7
We can only hope.
"Little Black Coupe Turned Silver" (littleblackcoupe)
05/04/2017 at 14:55, STARS: 16
At least 24 million people, probably more, will lose coverage. That’s a pretty hefty “edit.”
"Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap" (ddadragon)
05/04/2017 at 14:58, STARS: 14
And here is evidence that they don’t care about the child after they’re born.
"Jcarr" (jcarr)
05/04/2017 at 15:09, STARS: 2
To be fair, that number includes people who will choose not to be insured once they are no longer legally required to be, so “24 million will lose coverage” is a bit misleading.
"Stapleface" (patrickgruden)
05/04/2017 at 15:10, STARS: 1
My biggest issue is I don’t know what’s in the new bill, as the CBO hasn’t reviewed it yet and given their take. I do think that the ACA can be improved upon. But I’d like to see a sensible approach to it, not just gutting the bill because someone on the other side of the table voted it in.
"loki03xlh" (loki03xlh)
05/04/2017 at 15:11, STARS: 2
Making America Great Again... for the rich and privileged.
"Mercedes Streeter" (smart)
05/04/2017 at 15:15, STARS: 6
Don’t be silly! If you can afford an iPhone 7** you can afford to buy insurance!
**Nevermind most iPhones are purchased under a subsidized plan or through some sort of rent-to-own system.
**Nevermind that insurance rates and expenditures are so high that you can expect to exceed the cost of an iPhone 7 in only a few months...and that’s assuming you could afford a good plan in the first place!
But hey, you wouldn’t be without healthcare if you just chose not to be poor!
Seriously though, between Trump’s clearly anti-LGBT “Religious Freedom” Executive Order today and now this also today; I’m beginning to despise this country more and more.
I’m still waiting for the verse in the bible that says making a pizza for a gay person is impeding religious liberty...
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
05/04/2017 at 15:17, STARS: 7
I think you mean “women and children walk off the plank first” since things like pregnancy, domestic violence, rape, autism and asthma are all considered pre-existing conditions now.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
05/04/2017 at 15:19, STARS: 3
How could this slightly lighter form of this train wreck of a law reduce health insurance coverage beyond the amount it increased from Obamacare? 24M is crazy when the ACA increased the number of those with health insurance by like 8.8M (by 2016) and of those 7.4M were fully or heavily subsidized.
It’s a stealth tax on my family, amounting to $5500/year before any actual medical care is provided. This year our medical expenses will likely exceed $10k.
It was supposed to reduce the cost of healthcare, but it has skyrocketed, companies have dropped providing insurance (or give you one option that is good for them), and everyone is gaming the system to avoid having to even provide that to their employees.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
05/04/2017 at 15:20, STARS: 4
While you are looking, see if you can find a verse that says you can ignore the largest and most fundamental value of the religion and concentrate on individual passages. And even then, only selectively.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
05/04/2017 at 15:23, STARS: 5
And why might people “choose” to be uninsured, Jcarr? Might it be because they can’t afford their insurance? And that they’ll be even less able to do so without Obamacare (or similar) protections in place?
Even people who currently have insurance will sometimes avoid going to the doctor because that $20-$50 copay balloons into a specialist copay, and an order for blood work, and a prescription for medicine, and a followup visit and, and, and..... that adds up to something they can’t afford.
Even if you’re working full time in a “career” or a job that’s considered a “profession” not everyone has the money to afford finding out that that cough has really been walking pneumonia for the past two weeks, or that that irregular period wasn’t caused by stress from that big project at work, but by endometriosis, or that the back pain wasn’t because you went too hard at racquetball last Thursday, but because you’ve got a slipped disc.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
05/04/2017 at 15:27, STARS: 0
It’s a mess for many reasons that I don’t feel like typing out.
But many of those same things that make it a mess make it unlikely to pass the Senate.
They’re trying to use reconciliation rules to only need a 50-vote majority instead of 60 but there are many non-budgetary aspects of the AHCA that will probably not be allowed to be voted on in the Senate.
Even if the full, unmodified AHCA were somehow allowed to be voted on under reconciliation, Republican senators from states that expanded Medicaid under Obamacare are unlikely to support this bill which ends the Medicaid expansion and royally screws over their own states. You would think the House would do the same thing but the House is weird and stupid.
Fingers crossed, with some reason for hope, basically.
"That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms" (thatbastardkurtis5)
05/04/2017 at 15:30, STARS: 1
My understanding of that figure is its 24 million over the next decade, not overnight, but still not ideal.
"RallyWrench" (rndlitebmw)
05/04/2017 at 15:31, STARS: 6
I can’t wait to have to give up my insurance to be able to afford it for my wife and kids. Oh, you’re a sole breadwinner supporting a family on a blue collar income and you’ve had back problems from that career? FUCK YOU.
"MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
05/04/2017 at 15:32, STARS: 6
The big issue is no longer requiring insurance companies to cover those with pre-existing condition. Or allowing them to charge them a crap load more money.
It will be entertaining (yet depressing) to see how angry my die-hard republican parents who both have pre-existing conditions get when their premiums skyrocket or their plan is “no longer available”.
"Jcarr" (jcarr)
05/04/2017 at 15:32, STARS: 2
Some will certainly choose to forego coverage because they can’t afford it. Others will choose to do so because they’re young and healthy and don’t see the value in the premium.
The root problem, which is pretty much unsolvable at this point, is that the healthcare economy is insanely off the rails. Care costs way more than it should and as a result, premiums are what they are.
"Mercedes Streeter" (smart)
05/04/2017 at 15:36, STARS: 3
How could this slightly lighter form of this train wreck of a law reduce health insurance coverage beyond the amount it increased from Obamacare?
Costs of healthcare have gone up since those days, yet our wages really haven’t. On top of that, they’re bringing back the hilarious (and not in a good way) list of things that qualify as a “Preexisting Condition”.
As it is, I cannot get life insurance because being gay and transgender is a horrifying preexisting condition to all of the 34+ life insurers I’ve tried to apply for. And for the ones willing to give me the time of day, they decided to punish me with absurd rates.
As for healthcare, the only reason I have it now is because I’m lying to my insurer. If they catch a whiff of what I’m using them to pay for they’ll kick me off the plan. My state doesn’t ban health insurance or healthcare provider discrimination. And my insurance has a hard no for people like me.
If this repeal passes, I will likely be without health insurance when I turn 26. Fun shall ensue trying to get a policy that doesn’t bankrupt me.
"Jcarr" (jcarr)
05/04/2017 at 15:36, STARS: 1
I don’t know what the answer to that problem is. Charge healthy people more in order to offset the cost of the unhealthy and the healthy people are pissed. Charge unhealthy people more to offset the cost of their own care and they’re pissed.
It’s not good.
"Little Black Coupe Turned Silver" (littleblackcoupe)
05/04/2017 at 15:39, STARS: 7
Those young and healthy people are the ones who generally have babies, right? Better hope they aren’t born by C-Section or goodbye ever getting insurance again.
"Jcarr" (jcarr)
05/04/2017 at 15:44, STARS: 0
Hey, I’m not advocating it. I’m one of those people, married to another one, and raising a miniature one and we’re sure as hell not going to willingly go without insurance.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
05/04/2017 at 15:46, STARS: 3
IMO, the answer is not in these plans.
The answer lies within a rebuild of the way the American health care system works, from the insurance premiums right on down to the prescription co-pay.
The holes and deficiencies go way too deep.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
05/04/2017 at 15:51, STARS: 2
Don’t worry, the grownups in the Senate will get a crack at it next month. What really cracked me up was when Trump said that the new bill would have protections for preexisting conditions that were as good as the ones in the ACA. If that’s the case, why not just keep the ACA?
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
05/04/2017 at 15:53, STARS: 1
Skyrocketed for some, gone down substantially for others
"yamahog" (yamahog)
05/04/2017 at 15:53, STARS: 8
Actually the women’s lifeboats were defunded, but I’ve been told we can obtain alternative lifeboats at the podiatrist.
Also any asthmatic, diabetic, or other costly-condition-having children will have to pull themselves up by their cute little bootstraps! Just like Jesus would’ve wanted!
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/04/2017 at 15:54, STARS: 2
Just got an email with some details I thought you would like to read:
“The United States House of Representatives passed the American Health Care Act by a 217 — 213 vote this afternoon (May 4). Twenty Republicans (none from Utah or Idaho) voted no along with all present Democrats. One Republican, Representative Newhouse of Washington State, did not vote. The bill now goes to the Senate, where it will likely face significant hurdles. Before the Senate can consider the bill, a Congressional Budget Office (CBO) score is needed. This will take at least 10 days, perhaps up to several weeks, and is needed to assist the Parliamentarian in determining whether any of the bill’s provisions are subject to the Byrd rule and will have to drop out of any Senate bill because they do not meet the requirements to be considered under reconciliation. This could include many of the insurance market reforms, the waiver provisions, the essential health benefits provisions, etc., but the Parliamentarian has the final say. The Senate is expected to make major changes to the House-passed bill; areas ripe for change include the abortion provisions (planned parenthood funding restrictions and limitations on use of tax credits for abortion-related services), Medicaid (block grant and per-capita-cap provisions, impact on expansion states and DSH payments); risk pool funding and stabilization funding etc. Note that the Senate needs to act by the end of the fiscal year to allow the bill to enjoy the privileges afforded by reconciliation.”
"Jcarr" (jcarr)
05/04/2017 at 15:54, STARS: 4
I don’t think it is either. We’re basically trying to rebuild a house that sits on a crumbling and broken foundation.
"nermal" (nermal)
05/04/2017 at 15:55, STARS: 0
Just as it always has been, healthcare is a complicated issue. Whenever it is run by for-profit companies, they will try to both increase profits and decrease expenses. From the insurance side, this means charging as much as possible for premiums, while limiting payouts. Nothing really earth shattering from that perspective, it’s strictly basic business.
The problem with the business side is “high risk” pools. Basically, old people, and others with long-term, expensive illnesses, such as cancer, organ transplants, etc. Strictly from a business perspective, the insurance companies DON’T want those people on their books due to the increased costs associated with them. In the same way a car insurance company can decline to start a new policy for a person with 4 DUIs, the health insurance companies want to also decline to start new coverage for a person with one of these expensive pre-existing conditions.
From a human perspective, we should take care of those in need if we can. This is the gap that needs bridged in healthcare, which was not fixed under the AHCA, and still isn’t fixed with the new bill. As proposed, the new bill sets aside $8B over 5 yrs to help cover the cost of “high risk” individuals. I’m not sure how the math works out, but this seems low.
One of the major health care pieces that Trump campaigned on was opening up the insurance marketplace across state lines. This would theoretically allow the insurance companies to compete across state lines, thus driving down costs to the end user. It would also allow the insurance companies to broaden their enrollment base, thus allowing a larger number of healthy individuals to counteract the “high risk” ones. On principal I agree with this, but do not see it listed as part of the proposed bill, which is disappointing.
"unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins)" (unclevanos)
05/04/2017 at 15:58, STARS: 2
And acne too which is fucking ridiculous.
"MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
05/04/2017 at 16:00, STARS: 4
It’s a tough problem. Which is why these things shouldn’t be rushed. Without insurance, my dad will be broke with in a year. If not a couple months.
I tend to be a libertarian but I have a few segments of politics I stray from libertarian ideology for. Regulation of medical costs is 1 of them. Part of it is that they are charging massively inflated prices for everything and then they say, oh don’t worry about it insurance is paying for it. Well eventually that gets passed down to people who can’t afford their insurance any more. A good example is the epi pen. Costs about $30 to make (out of about $6 worth of ingredients), costs $300 or more to purchase. (reference: http://time.com/money/4481786/how-much-epipen-costs-to-make/ )
I fully understand that business is business and you’re going to charge what you can and what the market allows. The problem here is the majority of consumers don’t know what the real cost is and don’t bother fighting that inflated cost because insurance has their back....until their premiums are huge. There’s no way for the average consumer to shop around and get a cheaper X-Ray down the street. There isn’t a free market in health care so regulations on profit margins and insane costs should be put in place to make sure it doesn’t get out of hand (because it is out of hand).
"Mercedes Streeter" (smart)
05/04/2017 at 16:01, STARS: 1
You know, I’m pretty much completely non-religious. Well more formally an Agnostic Atheist. I think there could be a higher power out there, but I haven’t found enough compelling evidence to leave the comfortable couch of science.
That said, I am a part of a deeply religious family. And they are the stereotypical ones who pick and choose verses out of the bible to use against me and others. Despite that, the church my parents go to is amazing.
Yes, they are aware that certain things are sins (well, basically everything can be a sin), but they don’t focus on that. Instead, they divert not only their teachings but even their massive finances towards love, giving, and helping each other out. You’ll never see a sermon saying “the gays are going to hell!!!!” and they’ll never close their doors to anyone who wants to believe in the lord. I have no problem going to this church, I wish more were like them. But, many (and the churches often with the loudest voices) are not.
Basically, they took the selective passages idea, but only decided to focus on the good stuff, the stuff that can improve everyone’s life, not just the select few who fit within a narrow worldview.
"Jcarr" (jcarr)
05/04/2017 at 16:05, STARS: 3
Nail on the head. Imagine if car insurance/repairs worked this way.
Oh you have hail damage on your hood? Well, that’s going to cost $30k, but insurance will cover it.
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
05/04/2017 at 16:11, STARS: 2
217-213. I’ve long believed that no bill with that slim of a majority should be considered “passed.” Anything that has a winning margin of less than 51% AFTER rounding to the nearest whole number probably isn’t that good of an idea.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
05/04/2017 at 16:12, STARS: 0
Really? Where? When? -3 to -10% is the best on the last map I saw, as a delta between 2016 and 2017 prices. The plan my wife was on was discontinued and replaced by one that was twice the price (the handful of ones that didn’t get discontinued did have a tiny drop in price, but that’s just playing with statistics to show something that isn’t really there). Her premiums jumped over $140/month this year from last.
Although my company offers health insurance, it’s only an HDHP and to cover her as well as me would cost 3x as much as covering her with an exchange policy.
Ultimately, the ACA is pretty awful for those forced into it. Everyone that seems to love it is either getting a subsidy or has heavily subsidized insurance from their employer.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
05/04/2017 at 16:15, STARS: 2
Yup.
"Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle" (1500sand535)
05/04/2017 at 16:18, STARS: 2
Your numbers seem funky, about 15 million got insurance through Medicaid expansion, About 5 through the private market, and maybe 2 million were young adults added to parents plans(so maybe that’s where your 8 is from). But the 23 million withou insurance is because today’s vote is going to destroy medicaid as well.
Obamacare was never meant to drive down costs right away, it’s a long game thing, you need a critical mass of people to be insured and then use that insurance in proactive ways. Although, part of the reason the costs were higher than expected is because congress did not pass some subsidies that were meant to control costs depending on how many sick/pre existing condition enrollees there were, the subsidies were a part of the initial plan but when the time for the vote came the republicans saw it as a chance to strike a blow to Obamacare.
Health care costs prior to the ACA were already significantly increasing every year, and it has a lot more to do with how Americans are unhealthy, delay treatment, and then seek treatment in urgent/emergency situations and then demand over diagnosis and treatment. It a cycle that’s hard break unless people can get preventative care.
No matter is it’s the ACA, or this new law, or single payer; health care is always a shared cost system. Hospitals must treat people with emergency conditions. And when they treat uninsured people with emergency conditions, those costs get passed onto you. Whether it’s through an employee insurance pool, or your hospital bill, or state Medicaid; one person is always going to shoulder a bigger part of the health care burden.
The real thing is, Obamacare isn’t the problem. We, Americans, are the problem. And until we become healthier and more proactive about our health, our costs are always going to seem disproportionately high.
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
05/04/2017 at 16:28, STARS: 1
If you’re comparing 2016 then you’re comparing Obamacare against Obamacare. Yes, it went up for 2017, but for many that hike still puts it below pre-Obamacare prices. You need to compare 2017 to pre-2015
"Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle" (1500sand535)
05/04/2017 at 16:32, STARS: 4
I for one am not crazy about the “healthy” versus “unhealthy” distinction. Lots of people lead healthy lives and have medical conditions that require additional cost through no doing of their own. My brother couldn’t get health insurance from about 21-32 because he worked mediocre jobs and had juvenile diabetes but always made too much to be on Medicaid. He was for all intents and purposes a healthy person who had a medical condition that randomly occurred. Most often in our society when things happen through no fault of a person, we usually give them some benefit of the doubt. It’s why the pre-existing condition provisions makes sense to so many people.
Not to mention, if you price that person out of health insurance, then you often times encourage them to be reliant on urgent care and emergent care for only extreme situation. And then they don’t pay there bills, and it gets rolled back on the insured people anyways.
No matter what, health care is to some extent almost always a shared cost system.
"Eric @ opposite-lock.com" (theyrerolling)
05/04/2017 at 16:45, STARS: 2
The last point is critical. Healthcare is the only industry where the pricing is tracking real inflation. If my income tracked real inflation, I’d be making at least 3x as much as I do now and the current premiums wouldn’t bother me that much (they’d still bother me, but they’d feel completely endurable).
I was against the ACA from the start because it was pure garbage. Any program that rewards uncontrolled price increases and forces you to purchase a product from some selected group of companies should have been declared unconstitutional. The ACA made insurance companies akin to state-sponsored industries under fascist dictatorships.
On the other hand, they could have done some positive things if they did one (or both) of the following:
Provide universal healthcare to every citizen. Complex to implement, but would reduce costs dramatically. Unlikely because there are too many people making too much money with too many lobbyists protecting their turf.
Remove health insurance from state control, making the laws/rules universal. Competition, reduced complexity, and standardization would reduce prices.
"Jcarr" (jcarr)
05/04/2017 at 17:15, STARS: 0
I don’t mean healthy/unhealthy in terms of personal choices or fault. I mean them as general terms to describe people who require little care vs. people who require more.
"Mercedes Streeter" (smart)
05/04/2017 at 17:20, STARS: 2
I think a potential answer is to nuke our healthcare system entirely. Our healthcare is designed primarily to make a select few filthy rich first, the company filthy rich second, the politicians who support them third, then somewhere down the line you get the actual patient.
Even better when you have a functional monopoly. AIDS treatments? EpiPens? Holy cow if you have the only working product you can charge anything you want for the product and you know people are going to find a way to pay that price because the only other option is well...death.
We could adopt the tax based healthcare systems other countries with healthier people have...or at least have that public option just to see if it could work. Would it work? No idea...though we have to try something different than the ACA and AHCA.
"Jcarr" (jcarr)
05/04/2017 at 17:21, STARS: 1
I posted an interesting tweet thread over on the Cigar Lounge that basically makes this same point.
The foundation is rotten and we’re just trying to build a different house on it.
"Mercedes Streeter" (smart)
05/04/2017 at 17:26, STARS: 1
You shouldn’t worry, there are still women’s lifeboats. They are only at least a state away. But it’s cool, you’re going to love the road trip and time off work!
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
05/04/2017 at 17:46, STARS: 2
You forgot to mention that the lifeboats are only for women who are white and straight. And who abide by archaic definitions of “morally upstanding.”
"Mercedes Streeter" (smart)
05/04/2017 at 18:02, STARS: 2
And who abide by archaic definitions of “morally upstanding.”
*Tries to laugh but cries instead*
It’s going to be a long 4 years of this sinking ship. I hope we (America) don’t make this same mistake again in 2018 and 2020...
"Little Black Coupe Turned Silver" (littleblackcoupe)
05/04/2017 at 19:08, STARS: 2
Rape is now considered a pre-existing condition. They are probably part of that require more care category, as you call it. How is that ok?
"Jcarr" (jcarr)
05/04/2017 at 21:43, STARS: 0
It’s not ok, and I never said it was. That doesn’t change the fact that it costs more to care for someone like that than it does to care for someone who is totally healthy, even if the condition is not at all their fault.
Those who require little care must subsidize those who require lots of care. That’s just how insurance works. That wouldn’t be a problem if health care (not health insurance) weren’t so ridiculously expensive.
"gmporschenut also a fan of hondas" (gmporschenut)
05/04/2017 at 22:44, STARS: 0
insurance can already be bought over state lines, pending it matches the law of the state you are residing in. guess what the reason this isn’t broadcast by insurance is A) BCBS of virginia would be competeing with BCBS of kentucky, B) it becomes a giant mess of trying to mix and match which states align with other states.
As far as the 8 billion. it’s 8 billion over 5 years so only 1.2 per year for high risk
“In Ryan’s home state of Wisconsin, some 21,000 people were in the state’s high-risk pool in 2011. They paid double the premiums of a comparable plan in the individual market — about $450 a month for a 55-year-old — and had an annual deductible of $2,500. But their conditions weren’t covered for six months and they had a lifetime benefits cap of $1 million, which sick Americans can burn through very quickly.
The program cost $186 million that year, and the state had to kick in $82 million to cover these residents.” http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/03/news/economy/high-risk-pools-obamacare-pre-existing/
that money makes a good headline. with wisconsin @2% of americans and multiplying their program by 50, that comes to 4.1 billion. the plan is going to burn through cash faster than top fuel dragster.
http://kff.org/health-reform/issue-brief/high-risk-pools-for-uninsurable-individuals/
“in any given year, the healthiest 50% of the population accounts for less than 3% of total health care expenditures, while the sickest 10% account for nearly two-thirds of population health spending (Figure 1).”
"gmporschenut also a fan of hondas" (gmporschenut)
05/04/2017 at 22:46, STARS: 0
“being able bodied, is a temporary condition” - dan carlin
"MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
05/05/2017 at 09:37, STARS: 0
So don’t worry about it, and no you can’t shop around!
but..but...my insurance is now 5k a month?!