by "LJ909" (lj909)
Published 05/01/2017 at 13:53
by "LJ909" (lj909)
Published 05/01/2017 at 13:53
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STARS: 2
I wasn’t impressed when the new Si debuted a few weeks back. This time around it honestly seemed like Honda didn’t really bother, and mostly put all of their focus on the Type R. But now you have the above pictured Si that’s way to close in trim and power to the newly released Sport trim which is found on the Civic hatch. Curiously, I also found it odd that they didn’t offer the Si on the hatch. It could have something to do with the Sport trim I’m not sure. Which is honestly the better buy though? Lets compare them.
The Civic Sport and Si both share front fascias. They are pretty much identical expect for the fact that the Si doesn’t get the LED headlights the Sport Touring does and the absence of Si badges on the Sport. They are also offered on different body styles like I mentioned before. The Si can be had in sedan or 2 door coupe while the Sport only comes on the hatch.
Out back the Sport gets a small spoiler and twin center exhaust which look good and honestly looks more aggressive than the Si with its single oval shaped exhaust and rear spoiler:
Inside there’s not much difference either aside from special Si and red stitching on the steering wheel. Both have aluminum pedals and carbon fiber look trim.
But who cares you say! They are both Civic’s! Of course they are going to be identical in a lot of ways! True. But that’s not my point here. I’m trying to point out if one worth it over the other, which leads me to my next comparison of them that really matters: performance.
The Si has the 1.5 turbo 4 putting out 205 hp and 192 lb-ft of torque. Its up just 25 horses over the turbo in the Sport trim. Other than that the Si gets a mechanical LSD and a sport-tuned suspension with adaptive dampers over the Sport, bigger brakes and 2 driving modes to choose from, Normal and Sport. All this should help the Si corner better.
But after comparing the 2, which would you guys consider? The Sport should be cheaper, and with a tune that I’m sure the Honda tuning world already has or is working on, it should easily best the Si’s power figures. But then the same tuning can make the Si even more potent. Honestly though Honda under delivered with this Si, and between it and the Sport I would have a hard time choosing between the 2.
"Klaus Schmoll" (klausschmoll)
05/01/2017 at 14:00, STARS: 1
And they are both FUGLY!
"Jonee" (Jonee)
05/01/2017 at 14:03, STARS: 0
I like the hatchback, but good luck finding one with a stick.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
05/01/2017 at 14:05, STARS: 8
The Si is not available as a hatch because the Si is a North America exclusive and the hatch is built in England. Nothing to do with overlapping trims.
You gloss over the big benefits of the Si. LSD, stiffer suspension with adaptive dampers, bigger brakes, etc. are pretty significant upgrades. An LSD on a fwd car is a particularly beneficial upgrade. It may not be all that much faster in a straight line but it will put power down much better in turns, and overall have much higher limits for probably not a much higher price.
"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
05/01/2017 at 14:06, STARS: 0
There’s 2 a dealer close to me. You can get a sport touring with a stick up here.
"LJ909" (lj909)
05/01/2017 at 14:06, STARS: 0
Yea when I was looking I couldnt. It was annoying.
"LJ909" (lj909)
05/01/2017 at 14:07, STARS: 1
I mentioned those things. But honestly will that be enough to convince people to get the Si over the Sport? And from what I heard, Si buyers had given up waiting for the Si with this gen of Civic and just went for Sport hatches.
"FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem" (fuelstratifiedinjection)
05/01/2017 at 14:10, STARS: 0
Such a shame. Only Mazda (and Subaru maybe?) have figured out how to make good looking cars. Why are they even trying.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
05/01/2017 at 14:11, STARS: 3
“Glossed over” doesn’t mean “didn’t mention.”
You listed them and said “All this should help the Si corner better.” That’s not saying much about them at all, i.e. glossing over them.
For people who don’t know what those things are and what benefits they provide, no, they won’t sell them on the Si over the Sport. But I still think the Si is a nice package that sure, could’ve used more power, but depending on how it’s priced, could be a nice option.
"LJ909" (lj909)
05/01/2017 at 14:15, STARS: 0
Well because typical Si buyers don’t really care about things like that. You want sophistication in handling etc? Now you can get a GTi, Focus ST etc for all that. Si’s have been the tuner poster boys for years for high reving, and loud. But time brings about change so we will see.
It is a good option though and I’m sure it will sell, I just don’t really see it as being worth it. The Sport with the goodies the Si has and the power is what the Si should have been.
"The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!)" (steve-still-hasnt-wrecked-the-powershift-in-his-12-ford-focus)
05/01/2017 at 14:23, STARS: 0
This. Hondas are rarely pretty, but they used to not be hideous. Ever since the space ship, split dash Civics came out, Hondas have been awful looking.
"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
05/01/2017 at 14:24, STARS: 3
I would go Si. Here’s my summation. (Not sure if I’m using that word correctly, but it makes me sound smartical :)
1. The hatch is pretty useless for a hatch. Not much reason to pay extra for it.
2. If the changing dampers are as good as advertised that’d be a huge plus IMO. Same for the driving modes.
3. As you said, that 25hp could easily be made up for with a tune. Although I doubt you’ll notice it, except on the spec sheet.
Altough I think overall it’s highly contingent on number 2, the driving modes/dampers being worth it.
"Bytemite" (bytemite)
05/01/2017 at 14:24, STARS: 0
Definitely Mazda3 is good looking. But Subaru? I’d say Kia looks good.
"Bytemite" (bytemite)
05/01/2017 at 14:29, STARS: 4
That’s a HUGE difference. Stronger engine, better suspension, better brakes, and most importantly a real LSD? Plus it has much, much better seats. The Sport seats look like it’s made for fat people. I’d throw myself into the door or passenger seat on the first corner.
It’s a no brainer. A 200 HP fwd car with no LSD is still fun, but it hurts not to have it.
"Aaron M - MasoFiST" (amarks563)
05/01/2017 at 14:29, STARS: 2
Except not really. The ST can’t be had with any of the same suspension goodies, making do with mediocre brake-based “torque vectoring”. The GTI comes with an LSD only on the Sport model and up, meaning you have to spend at least $28k. Want the adaptive damping? Autobahn trim, an eye-watering $34k. If the Si comes with both of these things it will be the cheapest car on the market with this level of suspension sophistication at any MSRP less than the Type R. Whether or not that will sell cars is another question, but for the price there’s no competition right now.
"Jonee" (Jonee)
05/01/2017 at 14:32, STARS: 0
I’m in L.A. and I haven’t found a dealer with one. Maybe they haven’t made their way down here, yet.
"FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem" (fuelstratifiedinjection)
05/01/2017 at 14:33, STARS: 0
Kia and Hyundai definitely stepped up their game in all aspects. But the Japanese have just either run out of ideas or gone loco. I mentioned Subaru because I couldn’t think of any other good looking cars lol.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
05/01/2017 at 14:40, STARS: 3
Speaking as a former Honda fanboy and owner of several modified cars over the years including a thoroughly modified BMW as my current DD, you’ve misunderstood the Si’s target buyers. The Si has always been about the best handling in the segment and not necessarily the best power. It’s been that way for almost 20 years since the 1999 Si established the modern Si formula. Yes, there are plenty of stupid ricers who buy Hondas and put fart pipes on them, but brand new $25k+ cars, no, that’s not all who’s buying them.
"LJ909" (lj909)
05/01/2017 at 14:47, STARS: 0
I doubt there will be any really difference in the driving modes. From my experience driving cars with driving modes, outside of anything other than a expensive sedan or sports car, the only real difference you can feel with driving modes in cheaper cars is maybe steering feel and throttle response. A lot of the other stuff is just gimmicky.
"LJ909" (lj909)
05/01/2017 at 14:48, STARS: 0
Well they haven’t released pricing yet. That’s one of the things I’m confused on. Will it sit price wise between the Sport and Sport Touring, which itself can hit almost 30 grand with the right options.
"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
05/01/2017 at 14:52, STARS: 1
From most of what I’ve read it’s the dampers that make the difference (ex Chevy SS) and I doubt most of the economy cars that have modes don’t have the dampers. I think it’s worth checking out. If it doesn’t do anything then get the cheaper Sport, but if you like it then I’d get the Si.
"hike" (hike15)
05/01/2017 at 14:59, STARS: 1
It doesn’t so much change the feel, so much as change the effort. Sport generally just means heavier steering.
"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
05/01/2017 at 15:03, STARS: 0
No sport touring can be had with a stick in the USA.
"Aaron M - MasoFiST" (amarks563)
05/01/2017 at 15:16, STARS: 0
Last generation the Si cost less than a Civic EX-L, so it’s not necessarily a foregone conclusion that the Si will be the range-topper this generation either.
"LJ909" (lj909)
05/01/2017 at 15:18, STARS: 0
Oh yea of course. That goes without saying given that the Type R is finally coming to the us. Hopefully though price wise it stays where its always been the last few years, in the low to mid 20's.
"Aaron M - MasoFiST" (amarks563)
05/01/2017 at 15:22, STARS: 1
Yeah, based on the EX-T being around 21,5 with a stick, I think a 25-26k Si is likely...maybe even a smidge lower.
"Jonee" (Jonee)
05/01/2017 at 16:10, STARS: 0
Will that change, or are we getting dicked again?
"Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras" (jegoingout)
05/01/2017 at 16:22, STARS: 2
Hondata already has the normal civic flashpro out, on a stock car it gains 23hp and 50 lb/ft (7 pounds more boost)
"Arrivederci" (arrividerci)
07/24/2017 at 16:27, STARS: 1
Depends on who’s buying it. If someone just wants a sporty commuter, they’re going to get the Sport, likely because it’ll be the cheapest option. If someone is an enthusiast that needs/wants practicality and has to have a Honda (but no CTR budget), I think they’ll go Si.
For me, between the two, I’d go Si - the LSD, brakes, dampers and seats make it a pretty easy call, unless it’s $5k+ more than a comparable Sport.
"Arrivederci" (arrividerci)
07/24/2017 at 16:31, STARS: 0
Well, that’s if you actually are comparing MSRP instead of selling prices. Since the Si is new, I’d imagine most will sell at MSRP. GTI Sports are advertised as low as $22.8k.
"Aaron M - MasoFiST" (amarks563)
07/24/2017 at 19:13, STARS: 0
That’s economics, though. Just means people want the Hondas more.
"Aaron M - MasoFiST" (amarks563)
07/24/2017 at 19:18, STARS: 0
Also, the Sport isn’t the comparable, the Autobahn is (adaptive dampers, remember?). $30k at the lowest.
"Arrivederci" (arrividerci)
07/25/2017 at 08:08, STARS: 0
True - also means the Honda is new. Give it a few months and I’m sure they’ll be discounted as well.
"Arrivederci" (arrividerci)
07/25/2017 at 08:12, STARS: 0
Sort of - the Autobahn is the only one with adaptive dampers, but it also comes with leather and additional kit that isn’t on the Si. I think the Sport with its Performance Pack / LSD will be shopped more against the Si. If they do a Si Touring (like the Sport Touring) that’d be a direct competitor against the Autobahn. That said, the dampers would be a nice bonus in the Si over the GTI Sport. However, the extra 60+ lbft of torque the GTI has over the Si is a nice benefit as well.
"Aaron M - MasoFiST" (amarks563)
07/26/2017 at 09:37, STARS: 1
If the thesis is that people are buying the Si for handling, it’s far and away the cheapest option given the kit it has. Like you say, it and the GTI are not directly comparable, which is one reason they’ll likely be able to co-exist on the market. For me, The Si would be in my price range while the GTI Autobahn would not, regardless of whether I think the extra power and the interior goodies are worth the extra money (and they probably are).
And you’re right about the discounting...but talking about relative discounting as a fair comparison of price is such a trap because different companies have different discount/resale value strategies...both Honda and Toyota discount their cars less in order to keep resale values higher, at the expense of inventory control.
"rcasi" (rcasi)
07/10/2018 at 15:31, STARS: 0
I know I’m suuuuper late to the game on this comment, but I stumbled upon this discussion because I am currently debating between one of these two cars. I think I’ll be going with the hatch and will eventually do the Hondata tune. Trunk space is actually a MASSIVE difference between the sedan and hatch and was ultimately my deciding factor.
SI sedan:
Sport hatch:
