by "ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
Published 04/28/2017 at 12:53
by "ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
Published 04/28/2017 at 12:53
No Tags
STARS: 2
I am on my neighborhood message board, and there have been a lot of messages flying around recently about the crosswalks in our neighborhood that access the local park. They are marked with big white stripes, they have Ped Xing signs next to them, and the local MUD painted “PED XING AHEAD” on the street. Fine.
A rather vocal subset of the neighborhood believes that all those markings mean that drivers must stop if they see somebody standing on the side of the street waiting to cross. I say, bollocks. Here’s what the law says:
Sec. 552.003. PEDESTRIAN RIGHT-OF-WAY AT CROSSWALK. (a) The operator of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian crossing a roadway in a crosswalk if:
(1) no traffic control signal is in place or in operation; and
(2) the pedestrian is:
(A) on the half of the roadway in which the vehicle is traveling; or
(B) approaching so closely from the opposite half of the roadway as to be in danger.
(b) Notwithstanding Subsection (a), a pedestrian may not suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and proceed into a crosswalk in the path of a vehicle so close that it is impossible for the vehicle operator to yield.
The way I read this, I only have to yield if the pedestrian is already in the street , not waiting to cross. To wit, “yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian crossing a roadway in a crosswalk if...” Hell, it even sounds like the driver doesn’t have to stop if the pedestrian is on the other half of the road from the one the car is driving on. I’m happy to stop as a courtesy, and many do, but I’m not sure that there should be tickets written, as one member of the group is advocating.
Update : One of the members of the board is a Travis County Deputy. He posted the following:
What Diane said is the law. As a pedestrian, cars only have to stop if you are in the crosswalk. The intent to cross means nothing and as a curtiousy [sic; “courtesy”] sometimes cars will stop. If ever someone is in the crosswalk, and I don’t mean you stepped out in front of traffic, please try to get the license plate and I sure get someone to issue the drive a citation. I’ll need the L.P., date and time. Also good would be a description of the vehicle and driver, if possible.
"haveacarortwoorthree2" (haveacarortwoorthree2)
04/28/2017 at 12:56, STARS: 10
I have a Mustang, so you know what my answer is.
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
04/28/2017 at 12:56, STARS: 1
Crosswalk alternative:
"Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz)" (galileo-humpkins)
04/28/2017 at 12:58, STARS: 1
In the city, they have signs that say it is required by law to stop and allow pedestrians to cross (they are continuously adding more all over the place). So now I’m curious what the actual city law says, assuming the cited law is specific to your county/city/etc.
"tromoly" (tromoly)
04/28/2017 at 13:00, STARS: 2
Personally, if I see someone on the sides of the road I slow down (but not stop) just in case they step into the road so I can stop if needed. If they step into the road or are already in the road I stop, no questions asked.
So yeah, I’m more-or-less in agreement with your view.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/28/2017 at 13:02, STARS: 0
I think, especially in a neighborhood, that stopping is the courteous thing. But you can’t legislate courtesy, and you can’t write a ticket for being rude.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/28/2017 at 13:03, STARS: 0
I’m sure the law varies by state or municipality. Again, though, do you have to stop if they are standing and waiting?
"Honeybunchesofgoats" (honeybunche0fgoats)
04/28/2017 at 13:04, STARS: 1
You’re correct as far as the law is written, but I don’t see it as something that isn’t very tenable, since it basically advocates that pedestrians who want to cross in traffic should step in front of moving cars and hope for the best.
But I’m also not the best person to decide on this sort of thing, because years of living in cities has given me a very short fuse when it comes to fuckery with yielding to pedestrians in crosswalks.
I once threw an (iced) coffee through the window of an Uber after the driver made an illegal wide right onto Central Park West and almost hit a woman with a stroller.
I also literally got into a fight with a Lexus that hit me in a crosswalk. Not like, with the driver, I mean, I raged so hard that I punched that fucking Lexus and dented it.
"CalzoneGolem" (calzonegolem)
04/28/2017 at 13:07, STARS: 0
How does one get to a place in their life where they have a strong opinion on crosswalk function?
"jariten1781" (jariten1781)
04/28/2017 at 13:07, STARS: 0
Whatever state you’re in still has the boilerplate language that’s been around for a while (though it’s changed in a lot of places over the last 5-10 years); and you’re correct you are only required to yield to pedestrians in your part of the crosswalk. I’m not aware of any place that requires a driver to stop prior to someone entering the roadway at an uncontrolled crosswalk. Also that last bullet exists everywhere I’m aware of which is why criminal charges for cars whacking pedestrians are almost never pursued; very hard case for a DA to win.
"Takuro Spirit" (takurospirit)
04/28/2017 at 13:08, STARS: 0
Some states (I know SC is one) do not require you to yield to a ped crossing on the opposite side of the street. And yes, most laws state the ped must be IN the crosswalk.
I do not stop for them if they’re standing on the sidewalk waiting, unless there’s no one else around who’s time I am going to waste or someone who’s texting and is going to rear-ed me.
Half the time though I stop for people to be nice, they wave me by or are just standing there and not crossing anyways.
That reminds me though, after dropping my daugter off at school there is this one mom that lives across the street but also DOWN the block a ways. Well, there is a BRIGHTLY PAINTED AND WELL SIGNED crosswalk at the end of her block, about two houses down from her driveway. Well, EVERY morning she walks her kids to the end of her driveway, and haves them cross there. Way to teach your kids to jaywalk, lady! Yesterday, in the rain, she walked into the road and STOPPED TRAFFIC so the kids could cross. WTF. I wanted to run them down on principal, and teach her a lesson.
(Not really, but I did point back to the crosswalk and said “USE IT” behind my closed windows)
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/28/2017 at 13:09, STARS: 0
I’m in Texas.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/28/2017 at 13:12, STARS: 0
Me, or the neighbors? I rarely get involved in the petty squabbles of my neighborhood, but I felt compelled to address the sense of entitlement some of my neighbors have when it comes to these crosswalks. There is a core group of people who have nothing better to do than bitch about anything and everything.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/28/2017 at 13:14, STARS: 1
It would seem that all one has to do is step off the curb and the driver would be compelled to stop. What is somewhat lacking in my community discussion, and on the mean streets, is simple courtesy. Work together, communicate your intentions, agree on who gets to go, share a wave, and then go on with your day.
"X37.9XXS" (x379xxs)
04/28/2017 at 13:15, STARS: 1
They have pedestrians in Texas now?!?
Wow! Watta country. When I was there, they didn’t have sidewalks
"Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz)" (galileo-humpkins)
04/28/2017 at 13:17, STARS: 1
I think the signs say something to the affect of “Law...stop for pedestrians in crosswalk” so I would take that to mean that if they’re waiting, not in the crosswalk yet, then I do not legally have to stop. Though usually I do, as you mentioned, as a courtesy because I know in Chicago, you can be waiting hours for the opportunity to cross a crosswalk with no signals.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
04/28/2017 at 13:18, STARS: 1
There really is something satisfying about serving facts to people who have strong opinions about the way things aught to work...but have no idea on how things actually work.
"Urambo Tauro" (urambotauro)
04/28/2017 at 13:18, STARS: 1
It sounds like the pedestrian never has the right-of-way until cross traffic is clear. Once they step out into the road, they get R.O.W., but that is automatically voided if they’re jumping out in front of vehicular traffic.
The big problem that I have with the way 552.003 is worded, is the use of the word “impossible”. That’s a loophole, and it shouldn’t be there. Technically, this allows anyone to jump in front of a car as long as the driver is still capable of slamming on their brakes at the last second to avoid hitting the pedestrian.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/28/2017 at 13:19, STARS: 0
The absolute worst is driving around the UT campus. The students there walk around like they own the whole fucking world. And why shouldn’t they? They’ve probably been told as much by their parents. They don’t give a damn about walk/don’t walk signs, jaywalking, whatever. I never stop for them if they are crossing illegally (unless I would end up denting my car). And the bikes are just as bad, blowing stop signs, darting around. It sucks.
"CalzoneGolem" (calzonegolem)
04/28/2017 at 13:19, STARS: 1
I refer to the “rather vocal subset of the neighborhood.“
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/28/2017 at 13:21, STARS: 0
"Honeybunchesofgoats" (honeybunche0fgoats)
04/28/2017 at 13:26, STARS: 1
That’s true, but I’m not going to fault anyone who doesn’t feel comfortable stepping into a crosswalk unless the oncoming traffic has stopped.
"Takuro Spirit" (takurospirit)
04/28/2017 at 13:36, STARS: 1
Watching some of HaloMastermind117's “Stupid Pedestrians” videos makes me realize 99.9999999% of college students are either really dumn, or really entitled.
I also note on my own time, that if there’s a college or frat/sorority sticker on a car, 80% of the time they’re a bad driver.
"Ash78, voting early and often" (ash78)
04/28/2017 at 13:37, STARS: 0
The groundswell of opinion (not fact) is that we should somehow follow the CA rule where “if anyone is within 100 yards of a street and you see them even consider maybe crossing it, you have to stop until they decide what they want to do” (paraphrased). I wish we had more like the British system, which only requires cars to stop at crosswalks with a flashing streetlight next to it. Abbey Road is one of those.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
04/28/2017 at 13:38, STARS: 1
Your interpretation appears to be correct, but shit, that really isn’t the way to do things, right? Over here, pedestrians have right of way if they’re waiting to cross (on either side of the road), which seems more reasonable, squishy target and all that. Then again, we’re also allowed to just cross the road when there isn’t a crosswalk within 30 meters, and don’t really get the whole jaywalking thing.
Even better: in 30(kph) zones, crosswalks are discouraged, and drivers are expected to yield everywhere (no strict right of way for crossing pedestrians though).
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/28/2017 at 13:39, STARS: 0
That would be a Belisha Beacon.
"tromoly" (tromoly)
04/28/2017 at 13:43, STARS: 0
It gets murky, that’s for sure. When I’m walking in my neighborhood I wait for cars to pass because to me it’s safer to wait 10 seconds for no traffic than to count on a driver to be prepared to stop in short notice.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/28/2017 at 13:44, STARS: 1
We are a rather litigious bunch, so we require many laws.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/28/2017 at 13:44, STARS: 0
Exactly.
"Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle" (1500sand535)
04/28/2017 at 14:17, STARS: 1
Are you sure that’s the only applicable law? Sometimes localities may have more stringent rules.
I think sometimes people get too uppity about asserting the pedestrian right of way. Here in my town there is a four way stop where if pedestrians never waved cars through, a car could be stopped on busy nights from 5:30-6:30 and never get through because it’s just that busy with foot traffic.
I also know that lots of pedestrians are scared to walk out even when there is time for a car to stop(which they are allowed to do) because the end game is pretty bad if the car doesn’t stop, so I think that’s why people err on the side of stopping for someone who is waiting because the pedestrian could have asserted the right of way but opted not to because drivers suck. And trust me, as an almost lifelong runner, drivers do suck at paying attention to pedestrians.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/28/2017 at 14:22, STARS: 0
I don’t know if it’s the only applicable law for Austin, but I’m in the county, so I imagine we go by state law.
"Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle" (1500sand535)
04/28/2017 at 14:26, STARS: 1
Ahhh, I saw you mention Ut elsewhere so I wasn’t sure. Some counties have codes to fill in between city codes and state laws but not always and they tend to be most about land use...
"E92M3" (E46M3)
04/28/2017 at 15:01, STARS: 1
I would be happy if the pedestrians here USED the crosswalks. A good 75% just cross wherever they please. So far they’re a waste of money, and good paint.
"wafflesnfalafel" (wafflesnfalafel1)
04/28/2017 at 20:00, STARS: 1
I usually slow and give the courtesy, “are you really trying to cross?” - then if they don’t walk I give them a “hello?! moron...” hand and go.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/28/2017 at 21:32, STARS: 1
Yup. You snooze you lose.