by "Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
Published 04/24/2017 at 12:22
by "Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
Published 04/24/2017 at 12:22
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STARS: 5
First autocross of the year with my RE71Rs, Koni shocks, and Mazdaspeed Miata springs. Fastest time was 59.719 which put me 15th in raw times and 18th in PAX out of 54 competitors. Video of my fastest time:
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I left a lot on the table due to having no idea what to set my tires pressures at (I was running 40 front 38 rear, most other RE71R miata owners were running 30/25) and not being able to go full-tilt in corners because I was experiencing tire rub on right hand corners (you can hear it in the video occasionally) due to my wimpy stock front sway bar.
SCCA CLASSING RANT FOLLOWS:
In stock form my car falls in the E Street category. A Mazdaspeed Miata also falls in E Street due in part to the disadvantage given by its shite gearing despite having far superior suspension to a standard NB. My NB, saddled by the same shite gearing as the MSM, has been given the stock springs from a Mazdaspeed. The SCCA Rulebook says that to be estreet legal modifications can only come from the factory on the exact same car. So, for example, I could upgrade my springs to the 2002 Miata “sport package”, which is a laughably small improvement, but upgrading my springs to stock Mazdaspeed Miata springs puts me in STR in which my car is woefully uncompetitive in despite the fact that, in its current state, my car is inferior to a stock Mazdaspeed Miata, which is an estreet car. So, yeah. I’ll take my “broken Mazdaspeed” and keep competing in e-street from now on. The “autocross is serious business” curmudgeons can lick my tailpipe.
Alternatively I could run a 500/325 pound spring setup and Racing Beat sway bars and be competitive in STR. Fuck.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
04/24/2017 at 12:54, STARS: 5
ES is a huge class, you might annoy people even locally running an illegal car in ES.
Street classing is and always has been extremely restrictive. It is annoying because no matter how hard the rules committee tries to make classes level a certain car or a certain set of cars tend to dominate each class. In order to be competitive you therefore need the right car with the right mods.
That being said, stop worrying so much about the car. You’ve now driven it for one event with that set up and maybe a handful of events overall. Beyond just that car you have what, 2 years of autocross experience? Focus on the driver mod now, stop tinkering with the car other than to fix your rub issue.
"Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero" (sampsonite24)
04/24/2017 at 13:47, STARS: 0
tl;dr git gud
"ateamfan42" (ateamfan42)
04/24/2017 at 14:19, STARS: 2
That being said, stop worrying so much about the car.
This. You can have fun with any car in whatever class it has to be in, even if you are outclassed.
When I started autocross, my MS6 was in STU (because >2.0 L turbo + AWD), where it was hopeless against modified STIs and EVOs. Later, when rule updates specifically allowed the MS6 down into STX, I still ran in STU because my rims were 8.5" wide.
Last year, my Miata was in STR *solely* because my rims are wider than factory (15" x 8"). This Sunday is our first season event, and I’ll be in STR again, despite still being on factory suspension and factory powertrain. And it’ll still be fun!
A Mazdaspeed Miata also falls in E Street due in part to the disadvantage given by its shite gearing despite having far superior suspension to a standard NB. My NB, saddled by the same shite gearing as the MSM.....
Which year is your car? Up through 2003 at least, the 6-speed should have the 3.909 final drive, which is taller than the 4.10 in the MSM. Also, part of the reason the MSM is lumped into ES with the naturally aspirated models is the shorter redline on the BP-4W turbo (6500 rpm).
"t0ast" (t0ast217)
04/24/2017 at 14:47, STARS: 0
Huh, I knew the MS NBs had a ridiculously short 6 speed but didn’t consider that for the non-MS models. Definitely sucks that there isn’t some provision to at least allow those springs to make up for having similar gearing but without the added power. Still, congrats on the solid finish.
We’ve got some rule oddities in NC land too, like provisions for the MS-R kit (which can only be fitted to an ‘07 in spite of ‘06-’08 being identical) and a somewhat reachy, full-paragraph prohibition on removing/modifying a certain plastic shroud required to fit Mazdaspeed’s own CAI in ST/SP classes.
For better or worse, we just kinda have to roll with it. There are several things I too would have done differently if I knew I’d get into this as much as I have (like avoiding the 80 extra lbs of PRHT). I figure it’s just best to just get what allowable mods we can and just grind out some seat time to get the all-important personal skills up until car buying time comes around again (and still at least have some fun, ofc).
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
04/24/2017 at 15:03, STARS: 0
He’s a pretty good driver but he’s so fixated on classing and messing with his car that he’s losing focus on driving.
I’ve been guilty of the same thing. The best thing I did when I had my sonic was returned the tune back to stock and ran it as a stock car for half a season. Made me a much better driver.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
04/24/2017 at 15:04, STARS: 0
Yeah. I figure that once I get a good sway bar, remove the 40lbs of useless soft top that’s still in my car, fix my tire pressures and get more seat time I might actually be competitive in STR. Eventually I’ll probably get some threaded sleeves for my Konis and run some much stiffer (500/375 pounds is a sweet spot so I’ve heard) springs but that gets to be a bit pricey.
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
04/24/2017 at 15:07, STARS: 1
All SCCA classes are stupid except for CAM. There are almost no rules in CAM.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
04/24/2017 at 15:24, STARS: 0
Which is utter bullshit because it means Jayhawk Jake can go balls-fucking-out and have a fantastic PAX advantage. Meanwhile removing my soft top so it’s not rattling and squeaking and driving me insane (and selling it for some spare change) puts me in goddamn C Stock Prepared.
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
04/24/2017 at 15:40, STARS: 1
Autox is racing “lite.” It’s fun, but my target is always myself. Then I look at the results and see which cars I beat in raw time. PAX is bullshit. Always was, always will be. In some autox groups my PAX is 1=1 because my car doesn’t fall into any category well, and guess what, I don’t care.
My goal is to get better each lap and each event. If you start measuring yourself and your car against ones that have waaaay more money into them, or drivers who have been doing this for 10-15 years, it’s pointless and you’re going to have a bad time. I have about 6-7k tied up in the bits to make my car handle and there are guys with $100k Chevelles and Camaros that will kick my ass, I dont expect a first place trophy, but it is nice to beat a corvette or two occasionally. I still do it because it makes me a better driver and I have a boatload of fun doing it.
Some people don’t like it because of it’s toxic and hyper-competitive nature. The only racing crowd worse than the living cesspool that is grudge match drag racers is the group in each region that take driving like an asshole around a bunch of cones in a parking lot extremely seriously. I have met some great people autocrossing, hell one of them is standing up in my wedding, but the people who live for this limited type of “racing” and try to brag about their driving prowess in a ‘15 Golf GTi can go fuck themselves, because on a big track, a real track, they get eaten alive.
If you want to be competitive go buy a Focus ST and get some RE-71rs. Otherwise, go kill some cones and have some fun.
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
04/24/2017 at 15:53, STARS: 0
I run 500lbs springs on my Monte. You don’t need 500lb springs on a Miata. All that is going to do is make the car ride like poop. Get a nice big front anti-roll bar and light springs. The only job of the spring is hold the car off the ground. The only purpose of the shock is to manage the compression rate and rebound rate of the spring holding the car off the ground. The job of the sway bar is to handle roll rate without increasing spring stiffness. Stiff springs for autocross rarely make the car faster, but take away so much feeling and control. With heavy springs and adjustable dampers set too firm your car will feel like it is ice skating around, not good. Anti-roll bar first, and one other thing. Unless you buy a matched suspension package, don’t change more than one thing at a time. If you do you wont know what changed the car.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
04/24/2017 at 16:01, STARS: 0
So much this.
Some people don’t like it because of it’s toxic and hyper-competitive nature. The only racing crowd worse than the living cesspool that is grudge match drag racers is the group in each region that take driving like an asshole around a bunch of cones in a parking lot extremely seriously. I have met some great people autocrossing, hell one of them is standing up in my wedding, but the people who live for this limited type of “racing” and try to brag about their driving prowess in a ‘15 Golf GTi can go fuck themselves, because on a big track, a real track, they get eaten alive.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
04/24/2017 at 16:02, STARS: 0
I’m checking to make sure I have enough fun money to pull the trigger.
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
04/24/2017 at 16:07, STARS: 1
Yeah looking at the video you don’t need any more spring rate, just a bigger bar.
Also work on smoothing out your throttle input. When you’re on and off it in the slalom you’re upsetting the rear suspension. Work on building speed gradually through the slalom, enter slow and nail your exit, exit fast.
You guys run really big fast courses out there. I wish we had them that big.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
04/24/2017 at 16:11, STARS: 0
This course was actually fairly tight, but it was just right for a miata to conserve a LOT of momentum around it. I thought I was being pretty smooth through the slaloms except for the last one where I was overcooking it midway through every. Single. Time. Then again I’m utterly awful at critiquing myself.
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
04/24/2017 at 16:17, STARS: 0
One of the instructors told me this: “If you enter a slalom too fast you’re going to lose more time in trying to make the turns than if you enter slow and accelerate through.” Just some food for thought. Be critical, but learn from your mistakes. I don’t know how many runs you typically get, but we typically get 4-5. My first run I run at 75-80% to see what the car is going to do. Second run 90%-ish (typically my fastest run). Third run I drive 110% (I typically overdrive the car and spin and or hit cones) and then my 4th and possibly 5th run I try to get one more clean lap in somewhere between intensity found in run 2 and run 3.
"daender" (daender)
04/24/2017 at 19:10, STARS: 2
Ignore those who say not to get heavy-duty springs when jumping to STR. Pay more attention to the Miata.net thread called “ NB STR build- what have you done? ” since these are the guys who’ve tired and tested setups.
Also, I don’t blame you for wanting to jump back down to ES. If I do Mazdaspeed springs, then I’m painting them black (with the right paint dots to mimic the LS-package springs) so no one can easily see that I’m running not-stock springs. That said, Mazdaspeeds have it tough because they get their asses kicked at nationals due to their horrible gearing (4.10 torsen + 6500 rpm).
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
04/24/2017 at 20:09, STARS: 0
I have horrible gearing but at least I have a reasonable rev limit. Good call on painting springs. I could just say “they’re oem replacements I bought on ebay” and play dumb with mine, or say “fuck you I do what I want”. Then again, no soft top = stuck in some ridiculous class because I want my car to be usable. Woe is me. Worth noting I was less than a second off of a modified NC STR driven by a driver with far more experience than I. That bitch cornered *FLAT*. One of my friends that drove an NA8 in STR briefly before making a cart out of it ran 500 front and 375 rear springs on Koni yellows and said it rode as good or better than it did stock. Sway bar and reinforcing blocks are currently in my goodwinracing shopping cart because:
that’s a lot of body roll.
"t0ast" (t0ast217)
04/24/2017 at 20:20, STARS: 1
+1 on the miata.net hivemind, their NC STR thread has been extremely helpful for me since there isn’t much local expertise. Stiff springs are perfectly fine too as long as the dampening is adequate. I’m rocking 8/5 coilovers here and daily it too.
"daender" (daender)
04/24/2017 at 21:12, STARS: 1
Seems about right. Mine dives harder than a nuclear sub.
PS: Two yellow dots on the front springs and two red-orange dots on the rear to mimic what I believe is the Hard-S color coding. Here’s what I believe are the Sport-S springs with their color-coded markings; white on the fronts, light blue on the rears.
"daender" (daender)
04/24/2017 at 21:25, STARS: 0
Also, to help quiet your softtop, do you still have your boot cover?
You can install the boot cover under your hardtop but it’s going to leave permanent marks on the boot and it’s a snug as hell fit getting the hardtop on sometimes. On the flip side, my softtop has shut up ever since I did it. If you don’t feel like damaging your rare-ish saddle boot, use a tan or black one instead. However, be careful with the black ones as they tend to absorb too much heat in the sun and do funny things to the adhesives in the softtop.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
04/24/2017 at 21:25, STARS: 0
oh wow that’s an old picture of your car.
DOWN PERISCOPE
"daender" (daender)
04/24/2017 at 21:27, STARS: 1
Actually that was last summer! I haven’t touched the suspension since I installed the Konis two (three?) years ago! Actually, I need to re-lube my front sway bar mounts as it’s been binding as of late.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
04/25/2017 at 00:09, STARS: 0
That’s cool as hell. I don’t have a boot, though. I had a black one when I had my NA but I don’t have one for my NB.
"RyanFrew" (ryanfrew)
04/25/2017 at 01:58, STARS: 0
Where is the classing on your car? 15th/54 in RAW is pretty sweet, considering how close you are to factory. Nice!
"96Formula6spd" (96Formula6spd)
04/25/2017 at 10:26, STARS: 1
I have a Black NB soft top cover that would be perfect for that.
"96Formula6spd" (96Formula6spd)
04/25/2017 at 10:57, STARS: 2
Another one to the fun of the rules and springs. Yeah if I could use the mazdaspeed springs I would. But I am on the normal suspension in my 2001. You want to talk about body roll. This is my 2001 base.
But that being said I have learned to drive in this car. I have been fighting for top pax this year. I might even win pro in SCR. If that happens I might make the jump to STR. I even have the header and intake sitting in the garage. But I will get murdered by S2000 and ND Miatas. But still could be fun as I would love some suspension for the track days.
But find you a set of stock springs. Swap them in. Learn to drive the car. Have fun with it. Then decided on what you want to do. If you are looking for setup ideas. Here is my 2001 base 5spd car with Torsen.
- Koni Shocks
- Fat Cat Bumpstops
-Racing Beat 1.25 Inch bar. I think for ES the 1.125 would be better. Granted I love my 1.25 inch bar.
- Carbotech xp 8 rear pads. Pep Boys $11 pads up front. Will be Gloc Brakes next time.
-15x6 stock wheels with 205/50/15 re71r. Might go Rival S 1.5 to try something different.
- Axle back exhaust. As you can not hear a stock miata.
- Fresh bushings all way around. Body has 257k on it.
Any questions ask away. I have drove Daenders car. His is fun. It rotates way better than mine. That and ditch the hardtop for autox. That is 50lbs of useless weight. But come have fun. I know I do.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
04/25/2017 at 11:05, STARS: 0
I got kicked out of e-street and into STR due to replacing my factory springs with different factory springs from a Mazdaspeed. I would have had 3rd in PAX if I was in e-street. I still don’t even have an upgraded front sway bar.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
04/25/2017 at 11:16, STARS: 0
My car is primarily a street car which is why I’m keeping the MSM springs. They might not be much of a help when I’m driving 10/10ths but they make the car way more fun and less floaty when I’m driving around down at <7/10ths. I’m ordering a 1.25" RB bar later this afternoon in hopes I can get it installed before the next autocross in two weeks.
I have an axleback though I got it more for sound than performance, it’s just a Flowmaster 60 Delta series which actually sounds phenomenal. Taking off my soft top (because it’s my daily driver and I never use it and it makes lots of obnoxious noises and takes up space) and bolting my hardtop on will put me in STP I believe, but what ever. I’ll mostly be racing for raw times at that point.
"96Formula6spd" (96Formula6spd)
04/25/2017 at 12:39, STARS: 0
Yep mine has been the only car that runs for the last 5.5 years. Goes anywhere. As for the soft top to each his own. I personally hate my hardtop. That thing rattles like crazy. I just use it for track days. I am usually top down any other time. Stock springs are fine. Granted if I go STR I am doing the 800/500 combo. Soft top removal will go to csp. As long as the hardtop is there. But continue to have fun.
"RyanFrew" (ryanfrew)
04/25/2017 at 13:23, STARS: 0
Haha I just meant where is the lettering on your car?
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
04/25/2017 at 13:37, STARS: 0
Don’t have any, lol
"daender" (daender)
04/25/2017 at 22:26, STARS: 1
He’s been driving that Miata as his DD longer than I’ve been a SCCA member (got my 5-year pin last October). I think he’s gone through 4 engines, 2 or 3 transmissions, and at least one rear end on a chassis that’s surpassed 250k miles. If there’s anyone that knows more about Miatas than me, it’s very much him. I highly recommend his posts, he speaks with more and better experience than me.
He’s also the guy who got me into Miatas in the first place and has helped keep mine on the road numerous times!
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
04/25/2017 at 22:50, STARS: 0
I’m a bit of an odd one, I bought a Miata because it’s cheap, reliable, tons of aftermarket, handles great, drives fantastic, but I utterly hate convertibles. So I bought a hardtop and I’m making custom brackets for the rear frankenstein fittings to clamp that bastard to the car so it doesn’t rattle and gives me as coupe-like of a feeling as possible.
As far as suspension is concerned, what do you recommend as far as spring rates for Koni Yellows? I’ve heard 500/360-ish is about the upper end of what yellow valving can handle and will still be gentle enough on a daily basis for my bad back.
Out of curiosity, what is the object of the Fat Cat bumpstops? Are they just more progressive than the stock Mazda stops to keep the car from getting unsettled when it rolls over onto them? Do you still have issues with hitting the bumpstops even with the 1.25 inch bar?
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
04/25/2017 at 22:51, STARS: 0
250k miles and no front frame rust? Daaaaaaaaaamn that’s impressive.
"daender" (daender)
04/25/2017 at 23:06, STARS: 0
One of the upsides of owning a southern car!
"96Formula6spd" (96Formula6spd)
04/26/2017 at 21:08, STARS: 1
I agree with the cheap Miata thing. I also did not like convertibles. However I run around top down all the time. I usually do not run the A/C in the car. Shoot now I feel locked in while driving the miata. My hardtop has been on the car since April 5th and I am going crazy. It will be coming off May 8th and won’t be going back on for a long time. It just sits against the wall.
As for the bumpstops I needed a set and everyone said to go with the Fat Cat ones. When I went from the tired Bilstein to my free Konis. I got those from buying an ugly set and selling the lowering springs. Koni Lee at Solo Nationals checked them out and said these were they ugliest set of shocks but they are new inside. I am actually $5 in the green on those shocks. However from the picture above I am all over the bumpstops. They seem to be more progressive. When my rears were missing I was lifting a tire. That will still happen but it takes some work. I have taken students out with suspension mods and they think my car is handles better than their cars. Here is video from solo nationals. Sorry about the wind noise. Driving was not bad but I was not happy with it after looking at video and finding places where I lost 1 second or more. I could have been in the trophies. Granted this was 8 weeks out of ACL Surgery. So walking was a challenge. Made my course walks slow and I wish I could have walked a few more times.
Day 1 East Side
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Day 2 West Side
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I have drove a 700/400 car on the street with the koni race front and sport rears and it was a little bouncy. I think the shocks were turned up to high. But for the sports go with 500/350. Granted do not be afraid to go backwards. E Street is competitive. Nationals had 54 in class and we were the third biggest class. Come play.
As for the car it will hit 258k next week. 4th engine is in the car. 1st engine blew up with last owner. 2nd engine got crank wobble and is siting in the garage. 3rd was low on power and sold. 4th came from a parts car I parted out. As for transmissions its on its 4th. History was the car was a 5spd old owner made it a 6spd. When I got the car it went back to a 5spd. That transmission had some issues and was pulled for a rebuild. Now the replacement has a nice whine in 5th gear so chances are another transmission will be going in soon. Diffs the car is on its third. 4.30 open came in the car. When the 6spd went in so did a 3.90 Torsen. When the car went back to a 5spd it got a 4.30 Torsen. But its rust free. Maybe in a year or so it will get a respray. Might be around 300k by then.
That being said get close to those cones and have fun...yes there is a cone there. You can see it in the day 1 video.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
04/26/2017 at 22:25, STARS: 0
500/350 seems reasonable. The Koni threaded sleeves seem a bit expensive so I may have to start putting some in my rainy day fund to get up that sort of change. Hopefully I can dial in my setup a bit over the next few events and get used to driving, for the first time, a car with good tires and suspension after a long list of utter pieces of crap that I’ve been taking to autocross.
What SCCA region do you autocross in?
"96Formula6spd" (96Formula6spd)
04/29/2017 at 15:30, STARS: 0
Play in South Carolina Region. Will also play around in CCR and Buccaneer region. Last year was the push to nationals. Placed mid pack in E Street. Next year I might go again in something something Cam C in my 1996 Pontiac Firebird Formula