by "Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
Published 04/18/2017 at 10:08
by "Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
Published 04/18/2017 at 10:08
No Tags
STARS: 1
I keep reading stories like:
my sister learned to drive stick on it so the next time I replaced the clutch (not too long after the first time) I also rebuilt the trans.
or
I don’t know how to drive a manual but I would like to learn.
or
I want to buy a beater to learn to drive stick
or
The gunman, who police say was late teens or early 20's, didn’t steal his car because it was a stick.
So okay, this last one is positive,but still.
I get that in the US, a vast majority of cars are automatic. Hell, even I accept an auto in a US car, you don’t need a manual if you can’t take turns.
But what I don’t understand is this fear or difficulty to learn to drive a manual.
I have to admit, my first time behind the wheel of a car was in a Golf 2 that was headed to the junkyard anyway. I drove it for about 20m in my backyard, which means I started it, let the clutch go, hoped forward and stalled, restarted it, let the clutch go slower, drove a few meters, had to brake, and miraculously remembered to press the clutch.
My second attempt to driving a car was a few weeks later, when I was 16 years old, on the open road. My driving instructor arrived at my home, went to the passenger side, and gave me the keys. I was super nervous at first, but nailed the start and drove on. In the following sessions, it stalled a few times and miss-shifted a few times too, but nothing dramatic which would ruin a clutch or a transmission, and was in part related to the fact these little 206s had very little torque.
I am no shifting wizard (I will absolutely claim that title now) and most other people learn to drive more or less the same way. I taught several of my friends to drive on empty parking lots or dirt roads and none ruined my cars.
So my question is: Why are people in the US so afraid/incapable of driving a manual car?
"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
04/18/2017 at 10:12, STARS: 0
Because the is the land of wealth and luxury and automatics are usually a $1,000 option!
"Ash78, voting early and often" (ash78)
04/18/2017 at 10:13, STARS: 1
This question would be a little more relevant about 10 years ago before most of the world started adopting automatics more widely, but still — I remember learning to drive in friends’ beaters (which were their primary cars, since their parents knew they’d destroy them, so everyone got 10-year-old Civics and Jettas). We’d hang out in some empty parking lot, drink a couple of beers, then teach each other to drive. It wasn’t ideal, but it was a rite of passage. My “instructor” was an exchange student, an ex-Formula 3 hopeful from Colombia, and he did a better job teaching us than all the Driver’s Ed instructors and parents ever could. It wasn’t hard and it wasn’t some big monumental task to fear.
"PartyPooper2012" (PartyPooper2012)
04/18/2017 at 10:15, STARS: 2
A) hard to find a car with manuel.
B) when you find it, it’s unicorn. Federal crime killing unicorns
C) why bother learning manual when everything is automatic
D) Anything that intimidates people, they shy away from it
"themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles" (themanwithsauce)
04/18/2017 at 10:15, STARS: 2
It’s a self-feeding issue. Cars are expensive. Most families nowadays will only buy a car if “Everyone can drive it” and people are sometimes afraid to let another person learn how to drive stick on their own car because it’s a significant investment. So the only cars a lot of people *can* buy are automatics due to circumstances of life. Granted, I went the route of “I’m on my own now so fuck it, I’m learning how to drive stick!” and bought a cheap beater but that isn’t an option for most people.
Oh, and let’s not forget that there are no classes for manual driving. You can’t learn how to drive stick in driver’s ed anymore (all automatics). You can’t sign up for a class in high school or something (shop classes are getting cut). So yeah.....no one can learn from an independent source and the opportunities for learning are limited.
"Viggen" (viggen37)
04/18/2017 at 10:17, STARS: 1
My issue was overthinking gear changes. But the biggest thing of all was the fear of stalling the car in front of friends or random strangers.
"My bird IS the word" (mybirdistheword)
04/18/2017 at 10:18, STARS: 0
People are scared of breaking things or getting into accidents. It is more born of ignorance than anything, I speak from personal experience I legitimately thought it was harder than it was.
"Rust and Dust - Oppositelock Forever" (rustanddust)
04/18/2017 at 10:18, STARS: 2
Well how the hell else am I supposed to drink my 2 litre super Big Gulp soda and tripple-patty Baconator if I need a hand for shifting?
/s
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 10:18, STARS: 0
Sure, but the question stays mostly the same: why do people in the US have so much trouble learning how to drive a manual? And why are people who want a manual hesitant to buy one right away? It’s no rocket science.
"CobraJoe" (cobrajoe)
04/18/2017 at 10:19, STARS: 2
People don’t want to be reminded that they’re operating a machine. A large, dangerous, powerful, deadly machine.
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 10:20, STARS: 0
I wouldn’t want a manual in a landbarge, and I am glad my Bel Air is an auto, because on our narrow roads, I’m too concentrated on not hitting anything.
But that’s not really the question.
"Ash78, voting early and often" (ash78)
04/18/2017 at 10:20, STARS: 2
Well, to be fair, what few manuals that are left here are relegated to either the cheapest econoboxes or the more elite sports cars. Neither of those are mainstream segments, so simply finding a manual has become hard. Give Europe 10 more years of buying automatic crossovers (which is what’s happening) and it’ll be the same thing — anyone over 30 will wonder what happened to their youth :D
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
04/18/2017 at 10:21, STARS: 4
There are a lot of people in the US who, I believe, think of cars as nothing more than appliances. As such, they give ZERO thought to how they work. This may be really hard for Oppo to grasp, but I am convinced that many of them don’t even grasp the *concept* of shifting gears. Those people are going to have a much harder time learning to drive a manual than you or me. Of course, this is a good argument as to why those people *should* learn stick...
"BigBlock440" (440-4bbl)
04/18/2017 at 10:22, STARS: 1
“ I drove it for about 20m in my backyard, which means I started it, let the clutch go, hoped forward and stalled, restarted it, let the clutch go slower, drove a few meters, had to brake, and miraculously remembered to press the clutch.
My second attempt to driving a car was a few weeks later, when I was 16 years old, on the open road. My driving instructor arrived at my home, went to the passenger side, and gave me the keys. I was super nervous at first , but nailed the start and drove on. In the following sessions, it stalled a few times and miss-shifted a few times too, ”
Just a few reasons, sounds like you might understand why...
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 10:23, STARS: 0
I knew it! :)
"That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms" (thatbastardkurtis5)
04/18/2017 at 10:25, STARS: 3
Easy. People who buy a stick do so because they don’t want to let anybody else drive their car, and they tell non-users that it’s SUPER HARD to drive a stick to deter them.
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 10:26, STARS: 1
What’s sad is that they would probably be less deadly if people actually knew/paid attention to what they are doing
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
04/18/2017 at 10:27, STARS: 1
You say you’re being sarcastic but this is probably a factor for more people than I’d like to admit.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
04/18/2017 at 10:27, STARS: 0
But ignorance is bliss.
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
04/18/2017 at 10:27, STARS: 3
Why are people in the US so afraid/incapable of driving a manual car?
Because that extra hand is needed for texting/starbucks/makeup/shaving/wanking/flipping the bird/hanging out the window like a cool guy while driving.
"MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario)
04/18/2017 at 10:27, STARS: 1
That’s impressive that you can drink your tripple-patty baconator
"kanadanmajava1" (kanadanmajava1)
04/18/2017 at 10:29, STARS: 0
A clutch is a control mechanism that might be hard to comprehend, if you are accustomed only to a steering wheel, slow down pedal and and go fast pedal.
Maybe many skilled drivers would have problems if a new control mechanism would be introduced. A manual advance might be a tricky for many.
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 10:31, STARS: 0
I think that’s pretty much the answer I was looking for. People are intimidated by the unknown, I was too, at first, but didn’t really have another option if I wanted to drive.
(Yes you can get an auto only license, but I would be ashamed to admit having one, and most cars here are still manual)
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 10:32, STARS: 1
Definitely, but the question was more: why are the ones that want to learn afraid of it?
"Rust and Dust - Oppositelock Forever" (rustanddust)
04/18/2017 at 10:34, STARS: 1
To be fair, there’s probably a couple pounds of grease that can be leeched out of one with a straw...
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 10:34, STARS: 0
Everyone has that problem at the beginning I think, but it really take little practice to get it right. I think the thing in other parts of the world is you don’t really have the choice to learn
"My bird IS the word" (mybirdistheword)
04/18/2017 at 10:35, STARS: 0
I find it so weird you guys have two different licenses.
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 10:35, STARS: 0
True, other circumstances. Here, people don’t really have another choice than learning
"CobraJoe" (cobrajoe)
04/18/2017 at 10:36, STARS: 0
I like to be reminded. Manual transmission with little to no dampening in the linkages, stiff clutch, stiff suspension, intake, exhaust, engine noises, etc...
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
04/18/2017 at 10:37, STARS: 0
Well, it’s a little harder to find a car to do it in, and also to find someone willing/able to do it. When I was in college in the late ‘80's, many of my friends owned stickshift beaters (probably 30-40%?) and were generally happy to teach anyone who was interested. That percentage has dropped significantly, and more of the people who do have a stick car are driving a ‘special to them’ car that they don’t want a newbie beating on. tl;dr - you can still do it, but it’s a little more challenging, and those who ‘want to’ don’t really want it *that* much.
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 10:37, STARS: 0
Funny, here, you have to find a driving school who proposes auto only licenses. And getting one of those is impractical and embarrassing for most.
"facw" (facw)
04/18/2017 at 10:39, STARS: 4
Did you read your post as you wrote it? Because you have a lot of explanations right there.
When 95% of cars are automatics, many people can’t just borrow a friend’s car to learn (and even if you can, people are worried about putting extra wear on the car through bad technique, which makes borrowing a car a bigger ask, and makes an owner less likely to loan it out). That means you are looking buying a car just to learn, or doing a driving class, which is a much bigger commitment of time and money, without much reason, given that it is a skill set most people don’t need. Unless they are planning to buy a stick shift car the near future, why would they make that effort to learn to do something when that knowledge will just atrophy?
In the US, it simply isn’t a skill that most people need. The only people who buy manual transmission cars are people who want the absolute cheapest vehicle, and enthusiasts (for whom manual transmission use is basically a hobby). You may as well be asking why not everyone knows how to knit. The simple answer is there’s no reason to need to learn.
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 10:39, STARS: 0
For now, getting your license in an automatic limits you to an auto only license, there are not too many places where you can do it, and most people won’t do it because it’s impractical, since most cars are still manual here, also, it’s embarrassing. So for now, we are safe.
"PartyPooper2012" (PartyPooper2012)
04/18/2017 at 10:41, STARS: 0
if people were given a choice of not learning, they won’t learn voluntarily unless entertaining.
"Flavien Vidal" (flyingfrenchy)
04/18/2017 at 10:43, STARS: 1
They’re afraid of it because they think it’s difficult... They’ve never driven one. All they’ve seen is their father use his feet and hands at the same time to get the car moving. Crazy! So they think it’s hard and don’t do it...
I’ve taught one of my best friend in rFactor at first to drive a manual before getting him into my Corvette... Total took maybe 2 hours of rFactor (with properly calibrated pedals of course) and 1 hour in the Corvette for him to upshift and downshift pretty much like anyone else...
And it’s not like he only drove automatics before... He’s french too. He had never driven any car before that day. Best time of his life haha.
Now he has his driver license and even owns a car.
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 10:46, STARS: 0
My question was more in the sense of: why do people who want to learn imagine they will need a beater to practice before considering buying one to keep?
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 10:47, STARS: 0
I think it really boils down to fear of breaking something
"facw" (facw)
04/18/2017 at 10:48, STARS: 0
Presumably because they know what horrible noises people make the car make learning to drive stick and figure it can’t be good for it. Why did you decide you needed to learn on a beater?
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 10:48, STARS: 0
I just vomited a bit
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 10:50, STARS: 0
I loved the sounds of my RX-8, everything was so engaging! In the Bel Air you barely know what happens. You don’t really steer it as much as you ask it to go in a general direction.
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 10:51, STARS: 1
I think that’s pretty much it.
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 10:52, STARS: 0
True
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 10:54, STARS: 0
I just had the opportunity. It was there. But other people still learn without having this opportunity. You don’t really have the choice, except going the embarrassing way of an auto only license
"this is not matt farah's foxbodymiata" (fantastic-mr-foxbody)
04/18/2017 at 10:55, STARS: 0
You’re totally right about the “car everyone can drive” thing. My older sister, who could not give less of a shit about cars, learned to drive stick at 16, in the family Volvo. By the time I was driving age, however, my mom’s knees were going to the point that it was painful to use a clutch for more than a short drive in traffic. We therefore only had automatic cars, and it wasn’t until I bought my own car that I learned to drive Manuel. Which, to the OPs point, was really not that challenging. I watched a couple of YouTube videos and then drove around on back streets in my hilly neighborhood till I got the hang of it.
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 10:55, STARS: 1
I find it worrying, if someone is so incapable they have to go actively seek a driving school that has automatics, maybe they shouldn’t be let into traffic
"Azrek" (azrek)
04/18/2017 at 10:56, STARS: 0
You know what is amazing? A well seasoned steak that has been cooked over a proper fire grill to complete perfection. Also with a good baked potato and some dinner rolls. You know what is even better? When I don’t have to cook it myself.
It is basically easy mode. You can have all these different controls or options on the car or you can remove a lot of these features to make it easy.
People will always gravitate towards easy, however we will (sometimes) be envious of those who go the extra mile to do things the hard way.
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 10:57, STARS: 0
Yes, but you learn it pretty quickly, and driving instructors here have their set of pedals to assist you if you struggle.
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 10:58, STARS: 0
/thread
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
04/18/2017 at 10:59, STARS: 1
What really sucks is that this is a self fulfilling loop that will keep reducing manual transmission cars until they’re gone.
"Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street." (demon-xanth)
04/18/2017 at 10:59, STARS: 0
My lady once drove a manual Aerostar and ended up rolling it on an offramp. She will not even consider driving a manual again. I chalk it up to “Why are you taking a novice on a freeway before they have a chance to get proficient?!”. But no dice. She drives my Ram, but never wanted to drive my Dakota.
...and after the brake failure that one day, won’t even ride in my Corvair.
"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
04/18/2017 at 10:59, STARS: 0
Traffic is pretty bad in places in the US. Most people would rather not have to tap dance every five seconds.
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 11:00, STARS: 0
I don’t know if it was intended, but I get it now. I imagine this to be very hard, when it must be... common, that is hard. Isn’t it? I have no idea... I’m confused... Get out with your facts!
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 11:00, STARS: 1
You forgot All of the above
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
04/18/2017 at 11:02, STARS: 4
I was going to post this on Oppo today, and maybe I will anyway because it’s a great quote. But anyway, we have all manuals in our family and always have - my kids think that’s just how you drive a car. BUT we recently bought a Volvo XC70 because... it’s a Volvo wagon and we have kids? That’s not the point. This morning, my son climbed in the back seat and was checking out the front, and made an observation. He said, “Daddy? Why are the only TWO pedals down there? How do you drive this car?”
Son, it’s a long story. And it doesn’t have a happy ending, I’m afraid.
[still might post this separately]
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 11:03, STARS: 1
Well at least we still have them.
"AfromanGTO" (afromangto)
04/18/2017 at 11:04, STARS: 1
Because US drivers would rather be doing something other than driving while driving.
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 11:06, STARS: 1
That’s sad, but fills me with hope for the next gen
"Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing." (granfury)
04/18/2017 at 11:09, STARS: 0
I let a co-worker, who said that they could drive a manual, drive my E34. He executed a perfect 5th to 1st downshift.
Never again...
"merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc" (merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc)
04/18/2017 at 11:10, STARS: 1
That’s an awesome anecdote. Kids are awesome. The stuff they say can be hilarious.
"Viggen" (viggen37)
04/18/2017 at 11:11, STARS: 0
I got the hang of it pretty quick. Still never enjoyed driving the Miata around town though.
"kanadanmajava1" (kanadanmajava1)
04/18/2017 at 11:13, STARS: 0
A second steering wheel would also be nice addition to the controls. But even a second one wouldn’t be enough to do this...
"Chuckles" (chucklesw37)
04/18/2017 at 11:15, STARS: 1
With the scarcity of manuals these days, it’s possible that the only manual cars these people ever see are the ones owned by enthusiasts. Those enthusiasts are probably very protective of their cars, and not likely to want them to be abused. If the only manuals you ever see are either $500 craigslist specials or the M3 that your buddy won’t let you in without taking your shoes off, you’d probably think that you need a beater too.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
04/18/2017 at 11:19, STARS: 0
I’m doing my part to keep them alive. My next step is to teach my wife to drive stick so that my next DD can be a stick. Currently only my weekend car is a manual. :)
"MemoGidleyfan" (memogidleyfan)
04/18/2017 at 11:20, STARS: 1
I love that little pic....but the shift pattern!
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
04/18/2017 at 11:26, STARS: 0
What with the suing culture and all that makes as much sense as anything
"AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC" (addictedtom3s)
04/18/2017 at 11:53, STARS: 1
I don’t see why people can’t do that at the same time. I’ve eaten a full on cream cheese bagel and had coffee while driving a manual on surface streets with stop lights and having to pull off a U-turn.
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
04/18/2017 at 12:03, STARS: 1
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 12:14, STARS: 0
Hadn’t noticed that, looks tricky
"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
04/18/2017 at 12:18, STARS: 0
I think the main reason is that they take their driving tests on automatics (because they are allowed drive a manual car having passed a test on an automatic) and having started their driving on an automatic and having heard that what they call “stick shifts” are weird, rare, difficult to drive things they decide to stay well away.
In most of the world you need to pass a test on a manual to be able to drive one and as manual cars are more common people do just this.
"wiffleballtony" (wiffleballtony)
04/18/2017 at 12:52, STARS: 0
Ok I’ll bite. I didn’t buy a manual because I hadn’t learned how to yet. I wasn’t going to spend 30 large on something I wasn’t able to drive.
"facw" (facw)
04/18/2017 at 14:15, STARS: 0
Here in the US, there’s no such thing as an auto-only license. You take your test in whatever car you bring, and there’s no requirement to learn anything about how a manual transmission works. Very few people take the driving test in a stick shift. I think in high school, the few people I knew who had them borrowed automatics to take the test, so that they had one fewer thing to screw up.
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 14:21, STARS: 1
Ok, I get it if you’re going for an expensive car. But I read that about 5-6k cars, enthusiast cars you could easily resell.
I’m too cheap to buy a 30k car anyway :)
"tromoly" (tromoly)
04/18/2017 at 17:04, STARS: 0
Counter-point: If automatics and/or CVTs were not banned, most racing cars would ditch manuals or semi-manuals in a heartbeat.
Road-worthy counter-point: Manuals and the associated shifting gets old and boring, leave a computer to shift so you can focus on the road rather than on shifting.
Sincerely, person in a household of only manuals for the last ~4 years and driving manual for ~12 years.
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 17:11, STARS: 0
Putting automatics in race cars would take a fair share of skill out of racing.
I stopped concentrating on shifting years ago. The only situation in which à manual gets lame is in stop and go trafic, which I avoid like the plague
"tromoly" (tromoly)
04/18/2017 at 17:32, STARS: 0
I disagree, the drivers will put just as much skill into cornering and accelerating/braking as they do currently, just without having to worry about botching or slow shifts. If racing cars ran properly tuned CVTs they would be tenths faster than they currently are, the additional speed does not take away skill at all.
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
04/18/2017 at 17:36, STARS: 0
Agree to disagree, nailing the shifts is just as important