by "Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
Published 04/15/2017 at 12:30
by "Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
Published 04/15/2017 at 12:30
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This is Rusty, the 1971 GMC Vandura. 80,000 original miles and I am the second owner.
Rusty has some surface rust. I am a million years, if ever, from getting a full paint job for this van. Barkeeper’s Friend, maybe, but that’s it.
You can see the surface rust above the windshield. If I had a windshield guy remove the windshield and the rubber seal, I could sandblast that area down to clean metal, then use rattle can primer and a top coat of something in the ball park color wise, and replace the windshield with a fresh rubber seal. Does that sound like a solid plan?
"Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell." (oppisitelock)
04/15/2017 at 12:38, STARS: 0
Yeah if the metal is solid and you do a decent job coating it, should be fine. If you ever do paint it properly the screen can just be masked off. That will affect the quality of your paint job though.
"Laurence" (mrlaurence)
04/15/2017 at 12:43, STARS: 0
That’d definitely work, but what would be wrong with masking off the windshield and seal then wirebrushing the rust off?
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
04/15/2017 at 12:45, STARS: 0
I’m absolutely NOT an expert on this, but one thing to be wary of is that you might not like what you see under that windshield trim. On a lot of older cars (not sure about this one), water collects here and rusts. Its been a theme with the GM cars I’ve had. If it doesn’t leak now, it’s probably not too bad, but may require a bit of work before you put the windshield trim back in— shouldn’t stop you from this though—
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/15/2017 at 12:45, STARS: 0
You’re not thinking of changing that original paint scheme, are you? It’s classic.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
04/15/2017 at 12:53, STARS: 0
I wouldn’t do a full paint job without removing all the glass first.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
04/15/2017 at 12:53, STARS: 1
In case there’s rust under the seal.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
04/15/2017 at 12:58, STARS: 0
...which there is, count on it. Your plan sounds workable.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
04/15/2017 at 13:01, STARS: 1
I don’t think it came from GM looking like that. I think it was solid blue to start. But no, I would keep that scheme.
"Dave the car guy , still here" (a3dave)
04/15/2017 at 13:04, STARS: 1
If you find rust holes it can be repaired with a lead free solder kit from Eastwood. They have instructional videos on Youtube.
"Frenchlicker" (frenchlicker)
04/15/2017 at 13:04, STARS: 0
I would say 9 times out of 10 there will be. Good call.
"Frenchlicker" (frenchlicker)
04/15/2017 at 13:06, STARS: 0
I have been aching to you with that. It’s such a lost art anymore.
"Dave the car guy , still here" (a3dave)
04/15/2017 at 13:16, STARS: 0
I’ve known of a few paint and body men who are pretty good at it. Watched someone doing roof seam repair on an old 60s Fury and was amazed how smooth they could get it before using a file or sanding.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
04/15/2017 at 13:19, STARS: 0
And that’s why I want to remove the glass and the original seal. Be thorough about it. Do you think rattle can primer is adequate, or should I use something special to paint the bare metal?
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
04/15/2017 at 13:23, STARS: 0
The standard on this job is mechanically sound Roadkill. Dings and a touch of surface rust are desireable, even preferred. But I want to preserve the vehicle.
There’s a famous ghost town called Bodie, where they put new roofs on the decrepit buildings and they call this state “arrested decay.” That’s what I’m after. And some practical upgrades like power steering, some sensible and comfortable interior upgrades, and eventually, air conditioning. And some performance mods, of course... Dual exhaust, electronic ignition, maybe a cam...
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
04/15/2017 at 13:23, STARS: 0
I fully expect to find some. Hopefully, just on the surface like everywhere else. I want to fully arrest the decay.
"Laurence" (mrlaurence)
04/15/2017 at 13:31, STARS: 0
Of course - should’ve known really. A lot of these seals end up being water traps, so there probably rust underneath it. In that case, I’d go for it.
(Just as a warning - I’ve been told by people who’ve done similar repairs on other cars that it’s an absolute pig of a job that often takes far longer than expected to do properly)
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
04/15/2017 at 13:37, STARS: 0
Depends on the rattle can primer and the prep. If it’s, say RustOleum I think it should be fine regardless, though not quite as dynamite as a good epoxy.
"Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell." (oppisitelock)
04/15/2017 at 13:52, STARS: 0
In that case have at it. It’s good to stop the rust as early as possible
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
04/15/2017 at 13:54, STARS: 0
Meaning removing the windshield and seal?
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
04/15/2017 at 13:56, STARS: 0
Epoxy paint that would come from a real painter’s spray gun?
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
04/15/2017 at 13:57, STARS: 0
Arrested decay is what I am after, and presentable. Quasi-Roadkill looks with solid, dependable mechanicals.
"Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell." (oppisitelock)
04/15/2017 at 13:58, STARS: 0
Then stopping rust before it becomes swiss cheese and having primer and paint patches everywhere will probably get the look down, plus it’ll be solid. I’m all for patina, gives it character.
"Dave the car guy , still here" (a3dave)
04/15/2017 at 14:00, STARS: 0
I didn’t figure you’d ever go for drop springs, chameleon paint and Streetglow neon. Tasteful conservation with moderate updates is how I see it.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
04/15/2017 at 14:08, STARS: 0
Practical, sensible appointments to make the van thoroughly utile. And slightly driftable ...
One thing I want to explore is how the rear axle is mounted and whether some sort of four-link, or other conversion, would improve the handling.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
04/15/2017 at 14:08, STARS: 0
Exactly. My impression is that there isn’t necessarily a perfect rattlecan solution. They all have to air-cure or air-dry - there’s no facility for mixing of a hardener/varying viscosity/etc., and there are nozzle limitations on drop size and distribution. So, you have hard lacquers which (in modern lower VOC formulation and without lead) either stick well or not at all depending on conditions and quality, soft mixes like RustOleum that cover well but can be soft and permeable, rust converters which have to be *perfectly dry* because they can retain moisture, and so on.
And then you have paint compatibility issues.
I had a rather miserable time with paint on the roof of a chevy suburban with rust issues because even with a good bit of sanding, there remained trace amounts of rust in pockets which did not interact with my rust converter primer rattle cans necessarily according to plan, and the basic fill primer didn’t like the rust converter, which was all topped off with the Duplicolor top color not sticking quite like it ought and me not having enough of it. Complications from being a metallic as well.
End of story, I stalled the rust for a short period and it came back.
"Laurence" (mrlaurence)
04/15/2017 at 14:10, STARS: 0
That’s usually the hardest part, yeah, but the rust underneath often seems to find its way into awkward spots that are a pain to repair.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
04/15/2017 at 14:30, STARS: 0
Yeah. I feel all of that. My other van is a ‘97 Safari, and the only paint left on it is that which has not yet fallen off. I had some surface rust in a place on top and I sandblasted it, rattle primed it, and rattle topcoated it with plain white and I am curious to see how long it takes for the rust to show back up.
For my purposes with Rusty, I want to attack places like the spot above the windshield and arrest the rust. I have some luxury with the climate and a place to work, and a sufficiently large tarp to keep it covered. And I could invest in a small, official paint gun, or even a painter, to spot paint the necessary areas. Again, I am not looking for a custom paint job, only to arrest the decay of the vehicle and keep it looking largely like it currently looks.
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
04/15/2017 at 16:03, STARS: 1
Have you ever done it? It’s pretty tough to learn to do well. I’ve got all the stuff to do it and have done it a few times. Adequate and functional, but not too pretty when I’m done.
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
04/15/2017 at 16:03, STARS: 0
Have you ever done it? It’s pretty tough to learn to do well. I’ve got all the stuff to do it and have done it a few times. Adequate and functional, but not too pretty when I’m done.
"Dave the car guy , still here" (a3dave)
04/15/2017 at 16:16, STARS: 1
Haven’t tried it myself. Its about like soldering a gutter seam but has to be better. I did that once, my father in law had an old electric soldering iron made for gutter repair. I’ve always wondered if it could be used on a car body. His iron was so ancient it had a cotton wrapped cord and phenolic plug
"Frenchlicker" (frenchlicker)
04/15/2017 at 16:24, STARS: 1
At least you’re being proactive about it. Many people will lie to themselves until it is too late.
"Frenchlicker" (frenchlicker)
04/15/2017 at 16:25, STARS: 0
If you take it to bare metal there is always self etching rattlecan primer if you are paranoid about it not holding.
"Frenchlicker" (frenchlicker)
04/15/2017 at 16:26, STARS: 0
Minus the chameleon paint I love the sound of that.
"Frenchlicker" (frenchlicker)
04/15/2017 at 16:28, STARS: 0
When I discovered it I watched a ton of videos on it. It seems like it may be a bit tough when first starting out, which is why Bondo became popular, but in the end you can have a unique skill that makes a beautiful product.
"Frenchlicker" (frenchlicker)
04/15/2017 at 16:29, STARS: 0
That’s exactly why I want a cheap classic to start with. I had thought about getting a Corvair for that exact reason before.
"Frenchlicker" (frenchlicker)
04/15/2017 at 16:31, STARS: 0
The ones I’ve seen on Eastwood are recommended to be used with an attachment on an icy acetylene torch. Instead of using the oxygen though the tip pulls it from the air. No clue how well it works that way though. I’d say before they just used your stand torch.
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
04/15/2017 at 16:51, STARS: 1
Just about any old car will have used lead where the roof panel meets the quarter panels at least. Good place to start learning.
"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech)
04/15/2017 at 16:52, STARS: 1
The hardest part is modulating the temperature of the filter as you apply it so that it’s malleable but not running away on you.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
04/15/2017 at 20:58, STARS: 0
Yeah. I may even buy a little paint gun and try and use real car paint. Not a whole lot to lose in this situation.
"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
04/15/2017 at 23:11, STARS: 0
Sounds like a good plan to me.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
04/16/2017 at 03:05, STARS: 0
I would stay away from rattle cans if you want it to last. Eastwood sells 2k rattle cans but they are really expensive. personally I would get a rust treatment chemical and then a really cheap harbor freight spray gun and spray some epoxy primer and some cheap 2k single stage basecoat.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
04/16/2017 at 09:22, STARS: 0
I am thinking I will also experiment with using some actual car paint, rather than rattle can. Or at least, if I do use rattle can, investigate if there is some higher-grade stuff out there than the $6 variety at Ace Hardware.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
04/16/2017 at 09:24, STARS: 1
Also, I finally got reinstated. Zero of the 20+ allegations were substantiated. Including Spring Break, which ends tomorrow, I have been of work for seven weeks. New school tomorrow, eight weeks remaining in the year. I know I said this earlier, but if you are curious, I don’t mind filling in some details offline.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
04/16/2017 at 09:27, STARS: 0
Thanks for the tip, Frank. Is 2k a brand? I’ll look that up. But what you suggest is really just what I would like to do. I want to make some effort to approximate the colors, ultimately use some kind of paint polisher/restorer to re-enliven the existing paint, but the final look I am after is
arrested decay
. How that van looks right now, with the paint less oxydized, is how I want it to keep looking. I like the look, but I don’t like rust.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
04/16/2017 at 09:28, STARS: 0
If I sandblast the spots down to bare metal, do I still need a rust treatment chemical?
"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
04/16/2017 at 09:58, STARS: 1
You can get actual automotive paint in a rattle can, if you go to a body shop supply store. They custom mix it on the spot. I did that for my old S-10 years ago, cost me about $20.
"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
04/16/2017 at 09:59, STARS: 0
U was really glad to hear that, and I’d love to hear about the details. Still have my email?
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
04/16/2017 at 10:56, STARS: 0
I probably do. I’ll drop you a line. Earlier, still in the throes, I couldn’t quite muster up to it.
"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
04/16/2017 at 11:26, STARS: 0
I completely understand. I went through a horrible thing at my last district, and I was completely useless mentally for that entire time. I survived it, and since it was early in my career I got the out of there first chance I got a year later. That’s how I backed my way into teaching middle school. I didn’t expect to like being at a middle school, but eight years later ... it’s pretty great actually.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
04/16/2017 at 16:32, STARS: 0
The middle schoolers are not as well organized in their resistance as are the high schoolers.
"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
04/16/2017 at 18:41, STARS: 0
Very true. They are also easier to scare and easier than impress.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
04/16/2017 at 22:08, STARS: 0
True, that.
"Frank Grimes" (FrankGrimes)
04/16/2017 at 23:56, STARS: 1
no if the metal gets very clean it would actually be a bad idea to use a rust product some of them create a primer that actually needs rust to work.
here is a good link to lots of easy to follow guides of proper repair procedures for various things.
http://3mcollision.com/how-to
you dont have to use 3m products but similar things each paint company will have its recommended procedures but they are very similar and each product will have a PDF data sheet to show its proper use and preparation for use.
I recommend finding cheap 2k or also called 2 part products because they have mechanical adhesion as well as cross linking with other coating to provide chemical adhesion as well. anything out of an aerosol will only have mechanical adhesion which is why 2 part primers and paints are so much more durable.