by "Die-Trying" (die-trying)
Published 04/14/2017 at 19:53
by "Die-Trying" (die-trying)
Published 04/14/2017 at 19:53
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i know that there ought to be at least a few oppos who have time designing load bearing structures. i’d like to cut a whole lot of holes in said load bearing structure.
SO, full disclosure, i am asking for the model T project. i am trying to hit a weight goal. that goal is approximately 1650 lbs.(so that i can hit 1800 TOTAL, me in it) now, i am not trying to just outright cut all the weight from 1 component...... easier to cut 1 lb from 100 places, than 100lbs from 1 place.
all the talk about the demon, and its time through the quartermile, and i got to thinking. i happened to remember something i had seen a long while back.
its a slide rule. you can use it to figure out how much horsepower that it takes to get a car of a certain weight, through the quarter mile, in a specific time. now i dont have the slide rule, but a while back i had stumbled across wallaceracing.com , specifically the calculator section of the page. specifically the quarter mile calculator. now to give an idea of how accurate it was, i put in the numbers of the demon, and it came back showing the rest of its numbers, if you enter the weight,3850 and time, 9.65, it will tell you the hp to make that time, 846.77........not too shabby.........
so i wanted to figure out HOW MUCH power it would take to get a light weight car through the quarter. come to find out, it takes ONLY 402.11 hp to push an 1800lb car through the quarter mile in 9.60, at 140.88 mph. you can probably find that much hp rattling around the ashtray of your car right now, not something hard to pull off
in order to get down to that slim weight, i am planning to swiss cheese the car to within and inch of its/my life. and that diet would include the frame.
i would like to know the approximate “safe” amount that i can drill out of the center of the frame rails. how big the hole can be for the total height of the rail? maybe 1/3 of total width?, centered. the whole structure of the car is going on a holie diet.
this is going to be the “4x4” model T, the one that is going to get the underslung frame, and transfer case, and a muncie 4 speed with an iron transfer case. ............ traction for DAYS.........
using some of the other calculators on that site, you can fill in some of the other details, like for example, with a 29 inch tall tire, and a 3.73 gear, it would cross the finish line turning approx 6041 rpm(nothing unreasonable)
ANY HELP is greatly appreciated.
"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
04/14/2017 at 19:59, STARS: 2
I think you could save more weight by making it 4x2 :)
I don’t know anything about load bearing structures, but my uneducated guess on how much you can drill out, and be safe, would be 5%.*
*DC3 LS is not responsible for any injuries that result from drilling out your frame. Make sure you use adequate safety gear when working on and operating your motor vehicle.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
04/14/2017 at 20:03, STARS: 1
yeah, i know the 2x4 weighs less, but, ANY schmuck can cram an auto, and a small block in a T. i am going for the GLORY, and the traction....... manual 4 speed and divorced transfer case.........
"Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire" (arch-duke-maxyenko)
04/14/2017 at 20:08, STARS: 3
Do a proper FEA on it. Yes, without CAD, it’s a whole fuckload of basic math plus some calc if you want to do it right, and better not forget the trig, but it’s doable. It’s all about the vectors and stress risers, and whiskey consumed while counting how many times you can throw your TI-83 across the room.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
04/14/2017 at 20:09, STARS: 4
It’s a tricky business. Most of all, you’re looking at beam equations. Each beam section has what is called a second moment of area and you have to use a correct beam equation (distributed load, point load, types of support at given points) and then multiply your distance from axis by the load you get from the beam equation, divided by the correct I value. More or less.
If you were able to perfectly thin the chassis rails instead of cutting holes, it would be the most ideal case. However, since you can’t and have to cut holes, you’d have to come up with an analogue - and holes have another complicated thing - they’re what’s called a stress concentrator. Basically, if the type of hole concentrates stress by 2x or more, you would have to have it come short of the point in the frame where stresses were 1/2 that of the top and bottom bands, or *that* would be the point of failure.
The best way to do this is to model it all and do what’s called finite element analysis, which I’ve done in Siemens NX but haven’t ever done in Autodesk Inventor, which I *do* have access to.
"daender" (daender)
04/14/2017 at 20:11, STARS: 2
Just be careful with how far you go with it. Pontiac Swiss-cheesed the 1963 Catalina Super Duty for drag racing purposes to complete against Ford’s Galaxy drag special. While their process did shave weight, I remember hearing commentary on Barrett-Jackson that cracks tended to show up over time because Pontiac cut out too much meat.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
04/14/2017 at 20:12, STARS: 1
I’d do it for him except that Inventor is pants and I’m not sure I even have the FEA suite. Working on getting my own SolidWorks for just this sort of occasion.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
04/14/2017 at 20:14, STARS: 1
Cracks? I believe it. My TLAR engineering methods are looking at those holes and screaming.
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
04/14/2017 at 20:15, STARS: 1
Now what if you just lost 100 lbs from your own bunodyweight? Like replace yourself with a small asian female should do the trick.
Alternatively, window glass is REALLY heavy. Get rid of that if possible! Or remove other “unecessary” components like the battery.
"Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire" (arch-duke-maxyenko)
04/14/2017 at 20:23, STARS: 0
Pro/E is better for FEA
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
04/14/2017 at 20:33, STARS: 0
I like NX. Companies like SolidWorks. For me to be marketably competent, I figure I ought to go with SolidWorks even for my own use, because I definitely can’t catch ‘em all, and SolidWorks is available for prices similar to the others when on sale/appropriately debloated. Mostly.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
04/14/2017 at 20:35, STARS: 1
I was thinking he could full-body cyborg himself into a carbon fiber version of a small asian female and hit 150lb off, but those brain tank upkeep fluids are expensive.
"MrDakka" (mrdakka)
04/14/2017 at 20:38, STARS: 0
ALL HAIL THE CREO MASTER RACE
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
04/14/2017 at 20:39, STARS: 0
yes, this......... but i know that there is a fairly “safe” number, like say 1/3 of height centered.... but that is basically what i am on after........
"MrDakka" (mrdakka)
04/14/2017 at 20:43, STARS: 2
Too poor to afford whiskey back in college, so it was soda and energy drinks.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
04/14/2017 at 20:47, STARS: 0
yeah,.......... that IS some complex stuff there...... i was looking for a general rule of thumb, i guess. now dont get me wrong, there would be plenty of tie-ins frame to engine, frame to bellhousing frame to trans, all swissed cheesed, but tied in.......
i was looking for more of say........ something like 1/3 of the distance,........... not to say that it couldnt stand to take out more, but a nice usable number that would allow me to take out a decent amount of material, but keep most of its strength......
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
04/14/2017 at 20:55, STARS: 0
yeah, about that, i am at a SOLID 145 lbs, dunno where its been falling off at, but there is not much left to lose. but there is going to be a specific attention directed at removing weight from the ENTIRE car, windows will be gone..... will be swiss cheesing all of it. anything that can go WILL go.......
i know that i can get it into the 1650lb range.
like i said, its the remove weight from as many places as possible method........
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
04/14/2017 at 21:00, STARS: 0
i was looking for more of a “general rule of thumb” answer. i do understand what you are saying, about the stress causing failure points....... i also know you guys are usually on point with your facts and figures too.......
"Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire" (arch-duke-maxyenko)
04/14/2017 at 21:02, STARS: 0
I have to use Solid Edge at work.
I often find myself wanting to throat punch a computer.
"gmporschenut also a fan of hondas" (gmporschenut)
04/14/2017 at 21:18, STARS: 0
Id be nervous cutting that much out of a frame. Fiberglass hood/trunk?
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
04/14/2017 at 21:20, STARS: 1
Really minimal holes, assuming an on-end U-channel 3" high and about 1.5" wide would have 1" holes at 1/3 height. That would be maybe 8% weight reduction, and
the base channel’s moment of inertia would be relatively unchanged. Say you wanted to calculate the stress at the edge of the hole, .5 * 2(concentration factor)* the stress, divided by that Ixx number - vs. 1.62* the stress divided by that Ixx number... well, for this particular example, the hole can be more like 1 1/2" (if the stress concentration factor is 2), although the overall stress is increased by that metal being missing - we haven’t accounted for that yet.
Let’s say that a hole as big as diameter = 50% rail height is very often not a HUGE hit to strength as long as most loads are bending and not tensile along the length. Such a hole series will also get you some decent weight savings. Say, in this case, ~15%.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
04/14/2017 at 21:21, STARS: 0
I have the eighth edition of Shigley’s right next to me here at work.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
04/14/2017 at 21:22, STARS: 1
I once used a version of Soiled Ague for class. Back in 2004 or 2005, I think it was. I do not remember much about it other than a general impression it was cancer.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
04/14/2017 at 21:25, STARS: 1
mysterion, built by Ed Roth, had a spectacular drilled frame. i had read that it would crack the frame very regularly. from the stress of riding in an enclosed trailer, and being loaded and unloaded(pushed)
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
04/14/2017 at 21:29, STARS: 0
it would be VERY NEARLY this much of a car...... and swissing all the bracing inside too.
"just-a-scratch" (just-a-scratch)
04/14/2017 at 21:42, STARS: 1
You’re asking a simple question with a complicated and risk frought answer. There is no easy rule of thumb that I and many like myself will give you. Ther is a lot to figure out and it doesn’t lend itself to getting good advice on casual forums like this.
That’s why the thread quickly went into talk about FEA. Finite Element Analysis is a good way to solve a bunch of stress (e.g. strength) equations at one time.
Sorry to be a buzzkill, that’s just how engineers like me roll.
May you have the best of fortune with your [T- bucket?] project.
"facw" (facw)
04/14/2017 at 21:48, STARS: 1
"daender" (daender)
04/14/2017 at 21:49, STARS: 1
I’m willing to bet having dual iron block V8s didn’t help matters as well.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
04/14/2017 at 21:57, STARS: 0
thats a good answer,
would it be terrible if i was thinking of drilling it top and bottom too, and not just the sides?
i had found these diagrams, that show the dimensions a long while back, of the stock frame. looking at a the genuine article in person, i can tell you i have seen more rigidly constructed bed frames.
now i know there are better places to take weight out of than the frame, but this is about trying to get that last little bit from the get go. trying to put attention to ALL the details........... and i would be using motor plates at the front and bellhousing of the engine. trans tailhousing mount to the frame, the transfer case, tied from one side of the frame to the other. plenty to add structure and rigidity( and fail points)
that 1/2 number is attractive.........
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
04/14/2017 at 22:01, STARS: 1
Where drilling it in the sides is risky is if you have any sideways-going loads. If it’s not going to corner, doesn’t matter as much. Drilling it in the top and bottom flange is a terrible idea, because that’s where the vast majority of the strength to support loads is, and to resist the torque of the axle, etc. etc. etc.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
04/14/2017 at 22:06, STARS: 0
thanks. i do appreciate, that you guys take your recommendations seriously, and dont just hand them out haphazard.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
04/14/2017 at 22:17, STARS: 0
thanks, glad you told me that. not trying to make this thing a deathtrap, just trying to remove the “excess”
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
04/14/2017 at 22:20, STARS: 1
pro-tip........ tie a string to the Ti so you dont have to get up to go get it everytime you throw......
"MrDakka" (mrdakka)
04/14/2017 at 23:04, STARS: 0
Good man; I saved all of my upper division engineering textbooks except my rocket propulsion one. That one was rented
"briannutter1" (briannutter1)
04/15/2017 at 04:03, STARS: 1
Weirdly, I’ve welded up holes on one of those frames. Very flexible. Can pick up one corner and feel it bend level. The big thing about speed holes is to think about where the stresses are. There are many places where metal isn’t needed. Certainly stay out of any radii. Drilling is insane, so pick up a cheap plasma cutter. Plan on a few down tubes from the top of the firewall down to the frame. Going 3D on a 2d ldder frame does a bunch. I use .083 chrome moly for that sort of thing. Can you add pics of all the components being used in the build?
"f86sabre" (f86sabre)
04/15/2017 at 10:19, STARS: 1
Go read up on flanged lightening holes. You can restore some stiffness from the removed crosssection.
- your local aerospace engineer
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
04/15/2017 at 19:23, STARS: 0
what has been seen....... NICE tip, thanks. i think that i will have to definitely pick up a dimple die set.
and it would be about as good of an excuse as any to round up a good shop press.........
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
04/15/2017 at 20:06, STARS: 1
Are tires important? Them things are heavy
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
04/15/2017 at 20:40, STARS: 0
with as awesome as a plasma cutter would be, speed wise, i am a bit leery/scared of the idea of the jagged edges that i know i would end up with while using it. those would make for easy stress points to create runners for cracks. someone was nice enough to think of recommending flanged holes.
like i was telling someone else here, i have seen bed frames with more rigid construction. one of the cool things about the cars from this era, is that the frames were riveted together. i ought to be able to blow the frame apart into a bunch of easily manageable sections, and then just square it up,and weld it when done.
as far a pictures of the parts i have laying around that i am going to use, so far its still a small pile, and parts are trickling in still. but i will give you the best idea that i can.........
starting with a transmission, a muncie m20 4 speed, aluminum case, wide ratio( 2.52 ist gear) and aluminium bellhousing. IT is sitting around already. with the bellhousing, weighs 75 lbs..
next up is a divorced np205 transfer case, out of a mid 70s dodge, it is also sitting around already.. probably weighs around 150 lbs, mybe closer to 200.
chevy 350, totally disassembled, and holding down one of my favorite engine stands for far too long. i had gotten it as a runner from a friend of mine, and it proceeded to promptly spin, and stack a bearing. it got took apart, and most of its valued pieces used elsewhere. i have very nearly everything to put it back together. weight, as an entire iron engine cab to pan 600 lbs. will need to get a solid roller cam, and all the supporting bits.
i have a coffee table that is basically the heads, intake,carbs, stacks, covers, looks nearly just like this. has holley 660 cfm center squirter mechanical secondary carbs. sitting in the bedroom looking better than it has any right to......
model T coupe, body and frame, that i imagine will look about as rough as this picture here. it is already bought and paid for, deal is done, just need to get up to its resting place, to collect it and another one that i got with it..... a complete, as left the factory, full fender,with engine and trans, car weighs 1970 lbs. the part that i am going to use 400 lbs.
i talked to a guy that is going to be parting out a junker of a k5 blazer, and i am set to be first in line to get the front and rear axles out from under it. they probably weigh conservatively 400 lbs each.
a manual steering box, that i have, just plucked off of an old mid 70s c10, weighs 30lbs.....
those are all random pictures off the internet of THE parts
that is the pile that is on its way, or is here already. according to the ROUGH NUMBERS on weight, i should be in around 1800, with what i have listed there. its a bunch of in the ballpark weights. some are a bit less, but its a general idea of where i figure that i am starting at.
now i know that i said i would need just 403 horse to get through the quarter in 9.60 at 1800lb(driver included)...... and the good news, is that at 2000lbs i need still only 447 hp to make that same 9.60 happen.
i still think that i can find enough weight to cut to make it in at 1650 lbs, no driver.......
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
04/15/2017 at 21:02, STARS: 0
probably cheat, and go with some drag radials, and the lightest 6 bolt aluminium wheels that i can get my hands on.... i know that the weld draglites that i have on the bug, with tire, was coming up on 45lbs each, with 295 50 15s on them, and those were heavy full construction street tires.......
"briannutter1" (briannutter1)
04/16/2017 at 13:02, STARS: 0
Interesting collextion of parts for sure. What kind of cage work are you thinking?
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
04/17/2017 at 02:44, STARS: 0
i was planning on not caging it. i’ll let them kick me off the track. i am fairly good at disguising performance parts as junk. also it is going to be a very nearly street car. safety techs heavily frown on weight savings..........and junk........
"briannutter1" (briannutter1)
04/17/2017 at 10:56, STARS: 1
As a person who broke my neck in a car accident because I relied on a factory 3 point belt rather than a 5 point and harness bar at the very least, I’d recommend against it. A 2nd tier of tube adds more stiffness and would allow you to be even more aggressive with latter frame weight removal.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
04/17/2017 at 12:02, STARS: 0
i’ll have to look into that a bit more seriously, and see how and IF i would be able to pull that off myself....... there are SOME parts of a build, that SHOULD be skimped on..........
heh, when my friend was talking about starting on HIS Tbucket project, i found a bunch of these to show him
these, that are full bodied cars, with all the help that the rest of the fenders provide.
like i said, i will have to put some serious thought into it.....
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
05/22/2017 at 16:49, STARS: 1
This is all fine, but NOBODY believes that you only weigh 149 pounds.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
05/22/2017 at 17:01, STARS: 0
not too sure how “generous” the bathroom scale is, but over the years i have managed to get lean........ and it is RIGHT AT the 148 mark, clothes and all........
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
05/22/2017 at 17:02, STARS: 1
Where do you live, approximatish? I’m pretty sure you’ve told me before... I’d like to buy you lunch someday.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
05/22/2017 at 17:58, STARS: 0
dont worry about the lunch, i have a whole lot of fun just working on the junk. its exciting to make things “come to life”. and when you have been playing with old junk for a while ( its ALL junk ) there isnt much to it. and its hard to take, for something that isnt difficult, and when helping is just the decent thing to do.....
i am down close to San Antonio Texas.......
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
05/22/2017 at 18:54, STARS: 1
Well, then I’ll find out where you live and come eat lunch in front of you. I’m going to be in Austin in June. I’m going to see Ttyymmnn and my nephews.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
05/22/2017 at 19:23, STARS: 0
wow, thats almost here...... i dont get up that way too often though....... could be fun......
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
05/22/2017 at 19:29, STARS: 1
Oh, no; I wanna see the Beast Beetle.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
05/22/2017 at 19:34, STARS: 0
sadly i have been dragging my feet on it. i need to get back after it in full. june would be pushing my luck deadline wise to get it reliable....
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
05/22/2017 at 19:35, STARS: 1
Seriously though, do you mind a visit? Ttyymmnn and I might be able to drive down from Austin.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
05/22/2017 at 19:53, STARS: 0
the bug is at one of my good friends’ house. hes one of those older guys that doesnt trust too many folks. hes downright TOLERANT of my having my project at his house. having folks, even my folks, from the internet might be a little much for the guy. and my house is too small to entertain guests.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
05/22/2017 at 20:17, STARS: 1
I understand. No worries.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
05/22/2017 at 20:28, STARS: 0
youre good people, and so is your family.
i am just not in a good position, is all.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
05/22/2017 at 20:39, STARS: 1
You are kind to say so. I’d say the same about you. Lots of excellent folks on Oppo. Keep us all posted on that radical Beetle.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
05/22/2017 at 20:48, STARS: 0
i been meaning to be on top of it, and get it done, but the weather has been putting me off. right now i am at a “nothing to it, but to do it” stage. i have managed to pile up almost all the parts. i just have to do some “creative” fitting. still have to put a floor under it.
but it is so close, compared to when i started. its like having warm dinner,(something that you love), and be starving, and staring at it from across the room....... anticipation kills......
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
05/23/2017 at 12:41, STARS: 0
I hope I didn’t make you feel like I’d put you on the spot. Developing friendships is my favorite thing.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
05/23/2017 at 13:20, STARS: 0
no, its okay. ive gotten to meet some downright interesting folks in downright odd places. one of them was a guy that i did some work for on his cars, that needed help getting them to run. met him in a home depot parking lot. good times.....
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
05/23/2017 at 13:23, STARS: 1
I may have just inherited a project. A guy from church has a 2012 Nissan Versa with 67k miles and his daughter fried the engine. Engine from LKQ with half that many miles is $800-ish shipped. I can get the car for something like $2,000. CL has ‘em listed for $6-7k. I could make two grand or better... Thoughts?
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
05/23/2017 at 13:38, STARS: 0
i havent worked on any versa per se, but those front wheel drive cars usually are a tight fit to get engines in and out of them. depending on what it has for a transmission, you might have to disconnect just about everything, and drop the ENTIRE front sub frame out from under it to “make it easy”. and there is a bit of work to get everything lined back up and put back together afterwards.
it wouldnt be anything too difficult, but there is a whole lot of work involved........ if a guy had nothing but time sure, no problem. but if it is something that you need to turn around in a hurry,because you need the margin, then i would probably pass.
was there any story on how exactly she killed the engine?.....
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
05/23/2017 at 13:46, STARS: 1
Yes, I was clear on the dropping of the sub frame. I have a good friend who is an experienced mechanic and shop owner and I spoke with him about it. I’m a teacher and I’m going to be unemployed this summer and I was already fixing to spend $$$s on my ‘71 van, so this would be a good thing.
I still haven’t looked at it. If it’s beat up and needs tires, I’ll probably pass on it.
My understanding is that the daughter drove it without changing the oil. Or checking the oil. Or something along those lines.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
05/23/2017 at 14:15, STARS: 0
yeah, i have never been too big into trying to flip cars myself. there is money to be made, but im not to big into having to chase after it myself..... before you get comitted to it, check and see what the bottom dollar versa in your area are going for. those are usually the ones that are moving, sales wise, and the ones that you would be “competing” with.......
but so long as the body is straight, and the interior isnt just shot, you should be able to get what you are asking out of it, PROVIDED you have time to sit on it, and not be in a hurry to sell.
i looked at the ads in my area, and the bottom dollars are at $3k and the higher (realistic) askings are around $5.5k.
a lot of it comes down to what is your time worth to you, and how much (time/money) are you willing to put into it.... also sometimes it gets expensive to put a car together if you find unexpected surprises, or if you are swapping out the timing belts/water pump while you have things apart......
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
05/23/2017 at 14:50, STARS: 0
Yes, all of that. I want to be able to price it to sell. I suspect I’ll decide I’m too old for it once I’m under way.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
05/23/2017 at 15:03, STARS: 0
on the other hand, i could always start building junk trucks. i get asked about once a month if mine is for sale. all i would have to do is find a rusted hulk, and sink maybe $1500 to get it running and moving(reliably). so long as i can keep coming up with monster sized cams, and large 3 inch exhaust with headers, these trucks would sell themselves.
the downside is that in order to make a nice margin i would have to charge WAY more than i feel the truck is worth. 3500. and to MAKE money would mean getting parts from friends who would be giving me good deals, because they think the parts are for ME and my personal use. and im not about those kind of dealings....
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
05/23/2017 at 15:25, STARS: 1
Yes to all of that, too. The man who would sell me the Versa, I asked him straight out if he would be angry if I repaired it an sold it for a profit because I did not want him to think I’d taken advantage of him.
I flipped some Crown Vics a few years back and made some money. My brother-in-law was working for a municipality and told me about the sealed bit auction and I bid on them. There were three, and I made about $3,500 on the project, thought it was a bunch of work and hustling and dealing with a few Craigslist losers.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
05/23/2017 at 16:48, STARS: 0
that and i had a couple of deals, where i had put together trucks, nothing too special, but they run quick, and they run good, sounded great. looked impressive, but nothing particularly special.
the guys that i had sold them to took them, and run them real hard, about into the ground(burnouts for blocks on end), and then sold them as “built high performance” engines, that die trying built.(in reality i had built MYSELF reliable transportation) ...... so naturallly they quickly got blown up, and then i had angry kids asking me why holding the engines pinned wide open had caused them to blow up?.....
i left with a different attitude towards selling my personal transportation.......(and also i take CARE of my cars. and its sad to watch someone trying to beat the life out of something that you have taken a lot of care to build)......
you just have to see what that versa looks like.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
05/23/2017 at 17:13, STARS: 1
You and I think alike.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
05/24/2017 at 13:45, STARS: 0
I called you out this morning:
http://oppositelock.kinja.com/die-trying-new-project-1795505462