by "crowmolly" (crowmolly)
Published 04/12/2017 at 12:26
by "crowmolly" (crowmolly)
Published 04/12/2017 at 12:26
No Tags
STARS: 18
What the FP people don’t seem to grasp- a roll BAR and a roll CAGE are not the same thing. What’s in white is NHRA legal to 10.0. Once you crack 135 mph you need a full cage as shown in red. You can easily live with an 8 pt bar as shown, and the side bars can be removable for street use (swing outs that are unbolted). A 10+ point is a different animal. Not to mention that safety equipment is designed to work as a system- cage+bar+harness+helmet+padding.
Some of the other stuff once you crack 9.99/135 are a master electric cutoff, a comp license, window net and a chassis sticker (as of the 2017 NHRA ET quick reference guide).
It isn’t too fast for the strip it’s too unsafe for the speed according to the NHRA.
And for what it’s worth, a full cage is not always legal* on the street, nor are 5 pt harnesses that are not DOT approved and mounted in the stock locations. Yes, you can get busted for this, at least in NJ.
Just because you have racer safety gear does not mean you are safer on the street.
* Might not be expressly illegal but you can get hassled for it.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
04/12/2017 at 12:31, STARS: 4
Well put. Seems Dodge ran into a big problem in their pursuit of power while still being street legal. The similar variants from Ford (Cobra Jet) and Chevy (COPO) are not street legal, so they can be set up from the factory to NHRA specs. Since the Demon was always supposed to be street legal, the owner is going to have to make a decision on what use they want for it.
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
04/12/2017 at 12:34, STARS: 2
FP is not for logic.
"19JRC99" (19jrc99)
04/12/2017 at 12:34, STARS: 0
It’s really a shame. So much power that can’t even be used, unless NHRA makes an exception for it.
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
04/12/2017 at 12:37, STARS: 4
I’m sure it will all be used post-Cars and Coffee.
Mustang doesn’t stand a chance to eat people if the Challenger beats it to them.
"whoarder is tellurium" (whoarder)
04/12/2017 at 12:40, STARS: 1
obligatory
"Stapleface" (patrickgruden)
04/12/2017 at 12:42, STARS: 0
Did the NHRA recently (say in the last 10-12 years or so) change the rules? When I was more in to the test and tune days friends were complaining once you cracked 11's you had to have a cage.
I guess with more modern vehicles 11's are sort of more attainable than ever though.
"camaroboy68ss" (camaroboy68ss)
04/12/2017 at 12:43, STARS: 0
Which they won’t, the 69 ZL1 Camaro ran into some of these issues as well when new. Chevy was trying to slip a hot “production” car to dominate Super Stock classes, NHRA see right through it and forces it into a higher class that requires much more stuff and hinders it’s purpose.
"Takuro Spirit" (takurospirit)
04/12/2017 at 12:43, STARS: 2
Good thing there’s still good ‘ol fashioned illegal street racing going on everywhere.
Who needs the NHRA? Not them Street Outlaw people. WOOO FARMTRUCK
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
04/12/2017 at 12:47, STARS: 4
IMO they shouldn’t. The speeds that this thing hits are no joke. Even if they did make an exception I would not be surprised if some track owners did not let the thing run without proper gear.
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
04/12/2017 at 12:47, STARS: 0
This is exactly what is wrong with this car. You can’t legally drive this car in the venue it was “designed” for.
"PotbellyJoe and 42 others" (potbellyjoe)
04/12/2017 at 12:48, STARS: 1
2012 they dropped it to 10 seconds for any car built after 2008.
"camaroboy68ss" (camaroboy68ss)
04/12/2017 at 12:48, STARS: 1
Well said, I think many people who buy this car are in for a shock when they go to a track right from the dealer and then failing tech. The big kicker I think for most is getting a competition license and chassis sticker because how do you certify a unibody car? Most cars running these ETs and speeds are tube chassis cars.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
04/12/2017 at 12:48, STARS: 2
Yes. Roll bar (5 pt) is now required at 11.49/13.49.
Speedy factory vehicles is the reason I was given.
"vondon302" (vondon302)
04/12/2017 at 12:50, STARS: 1
Well written. I so hate when the FP talks drag racing.
"Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever" (superchan7)
04/12/2017 at 12:51, STARS: 2
Full cages are dangerous for the street, because they are designed for helmeted occupants.
Driving a caged car helmet-less is a death wish. A minor collision can split your skull right open.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
04/12/2017 at 12:54, STARS: 2
I’ve seen plenty of factory-chassis cars running in the 9's. I think the chassis cert in those cases means the cage, subframe connectors, etc and how they are all tied together.
"Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero" (sampsonite24)
04/12/2017 at 12:55, STARS: 0
dodge has the challenger drag pack to compete with the copo and cobra jet in the non street legal catagory
"Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero" (sampsonite24)
04/12/2017 at 12:56, STARS: 0
you could probably have a lot of fun on an oval track with it
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
04/12/2017 at 12:57, STARS: 2
I don’t know about your state, but I’ve not seen a statue which makes having a full cage not legal on the street. I can, however, say that a full SCCA GCR complaint cage is very inconvenient on the street. Depending upon the padding and exact geometry, it may also be a really bad idea. It was inconvenient enough that I only did it for a few months before picking up another car to drive to school. You are correct in that most 5 or 6 pt. belts are not DOT approved. However, there are a few out there that are. I know that Scroth has a variety of DOT approved harnesses for street use.
"A pogo-stick, obviously." (grrck)
04/12/2017 at 12:57, STARS: 0
"dogisbadob" (dogisbadob)
04/12/2017 at 13:00, STARS: 1
The Demon should at least come with provisions for bolting in your own cage. Doesn’t the RWD Subaru have that?
What they should do is offer the Demon engine on the Wrangler, which already has a roll cage :p
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
04/12/2017 at 13:02, STARS: 0
I wasn’t aware of that one (I should have been, its only logical Dodge would compete). I’d be interested to see how it stacks up against the Demon. I read something saying it would have about 1,000 hp, but couldn’t find anything specific.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
04/12/2017 at 13:02, STARS: 1
dodge ought to make an unbadged, performance package, that gives all the benefits, but none of the easily identifiable callouts for tracks to take notice of.
if a guy can manage to run the number, 10 and better, make him cert up.
but no need to go crazy over a car, banning them(until equipmented), just because it has run top numbers under prime circumstances.
then again, what do i know......
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
04/12/2017 at 13:04, STARS: 0
I think it may depend on the state. NJ doesn’t like it, however in other states (Ohio and PA) you can do it. I’m going to edit the original post, thanks. Even if it isn’t expressly written I can imagine some LEO’s taking issue with seeing a 10+ pt.
Scroth is the one that I had in mind while writing the post. I know some of their gear is legal but I seem to remember that only being the case if you use factory mounting locations.
"Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero" (sampsonite24)
04/12/2017 at 13:04, STARS: 0
that was a rumor starting on instagram and made the rounds. actual power figure is 840 HP for the demon, the drag pak challenger has 1000 HP
http://jalopnik.com/new-dodge-challenger-drag-pak-comes-with-two-flavors-of-1719935429
"McMike" (mcmike)
04/12/2017 at 13:05, STARS: 3
Makes me wonder how many Demons will be debadged.
Tech: “Is that Demon?”
Owner: “No.”
Tech: “OK”
Owner: “9.99"
Tech: “Get out.”
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
04/12/2017 at 13:11, STARS: 3
Bolt in cages and bars are not NHRA legal last I checked. Has to be welded in, and it can’t be straight to floor pans in unibody cars- you have to add 1/8" plates.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
04/12/2017 at 13:14, STARS: 0
Yup. One run and then you get banned, probably.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
04/12/2017 at 13:14, STARS: 0
I saw both of those too. While the drag pack didn’t share much with the hellcat, I’d be interested to know what it shares with the Demon.
It looks like the Demon has a smaller supercharger than the drag pack (2.7 v. 2.9l), but aside from that who knows.
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
04/12/2017 at 13:15, STARS: 1
That is my memory also for how Scroth stuff worked for DOT. Driving a caged car with harnesses is certainly a way to attract attention from folks with badges and guns, especially if you’re young. If I were to put a roll bar and a set of harnesses in my vette, I don’t think it would ever be an issue so long my middle aged self didn’t go out ofmy way to piss off the cop.
"Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero" (sampsonite24)
04/12/2017 at 13:18, STARS: 0
it doesnt share anything, they havnt updated the drag pak since 2015 and even then the only thing it shared with the challenger was the name and body panels
meanwhile the demon is almost all hellcat just turned up to 11
"RutRut" (RDR)
04/12/2017 at 13:21, STARS: 0
I’m still banking on this progression:
>Car needs cage added to run at track
>Add cage
>Adding cage voids warranty
>Dodge doesn’t have to warranty cars that people are racing.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
04/12/2017 at 13:27, STARS: 1
One way people get around it (at least near me) is by leaving the factory belts in the car and using different mount points for the lap belt. That way you can use the factory stuff on the road and aftermarket for the track.
"WiscoProud" (wiscoproud)
04/12/2017 at 13:27, STARS: 0
From what I understand the “2015" model year refers to when it became NHRA approved, rather than manufactured. My guess is the Demon is a mash-up of the two. It would be idiotic to not take what you learned about the drag pack and use it on the Demon.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
04/12/2017 at 13:36, STARS: 0
Weird, never been harassed out here in California for full cages or harnesses when driving friends’ street legal racers. The one time I was stopped the officer just wanted to know more about the car. Didn’t even care about the harnesses and I doubt he cared about the cage.
Why should they? Especially in older cars it is safer than driving around they way they were build.
"Hammerdown" (hammerdown32)
04/12/2017 at 13:46, STARS: 1
There’s plenty of guys out there with 8 and 9 sec cars that pedal them on the top end to run a 10.0 and keep racing. You don’t get tossed until you run too fast. Can’t throw them out on speculation. Therefore, you could put the black key in and run 11.00's or whatever (or use the red key and lift early) completely legally. Which could make for a fun and reliable bracket racer.
"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
04/12/2017 at 14:16, STARS: 0
right, this is what i was trying to get at, before i sort of lost my focus. also there is a good little bit of effort to get lined up just right, and also get off the line and down the strip consistently. some guys can chase a number all day, and still not get there, just because they havent gotten their driving/launch/pre-stage down.
guys shouldnt be penalized on what their car ought to be able to do, but on what they themselves are able to run....... cant hit sub 10, no cage needed, but once you break the seal(break out), need to cert-up before you can keep running........
and like you say, sure would be nice to have a car that can compete, reliably, consistently, all the way down to the low 10 sec, or whatever the safety equipment permits to the times you are trying to run.
i can also, on the other side of things, see how a very near, but not quite 10 sec flat car in an accident could have some serious results.......
"tromoly" (tromoly)
04/12/2017 at 14:40, STARS: 0
A proper cage should not put a helmet close to tubing, let alone a non-helmeted head. If a helmet touches tubing the cage is poorly designed.
"Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever" (superchan7)
04/12/2017 at 16:00, STARS: 2
Looking online, people seem to agree that 2" clearance is required from a helmeted head to any point on the cage.
Anatomically, a grown human’s neck can stretch up to 5" due to external on-axis force. This is just one dimension of movement, not even accounting for the lift on the entire human body.
Add other axes of movement and the head can literally move in units of
feet
during a crash. Even a padded cage can be deadly to the bare head. That is why full cages are mostly, if not entirely, illegal on road cars for non-helmeted occupants.
"McMike" (mcmike)
04/12/2017 at 16:36, STARS: 1
Maybe Dodge can sell you little track maps to put on your front fender for every drag strip you get banned from.
"tromoly" (tromoly)
04/12/2017 at 16:43, STARS: 0
With containment seats and headrests tubes on the side of the helmet aren’t as much of an issue, it’s tubes above the driver. I prefer to see 4" clearance, but would rather see no tubes run above the driver if possible.
In a perfect world street-legal cars would not be fast enough to warrant a roll cage, IMO street cars should be “boring” and safe while fast, racing vehicles are hauled in trailers to the track*. Can’t afford two vehicles? Buy a kart and keep it at the track, that’s your racing vehicle.
*Rally cars lie in a gray area that I’m not going to get into.
"uofime-2" (uofime-2)
04/12/2017 at 17:16, STARS: 0
In reality there are plenty of strips that pay no attention and have no real tech.
"Shoop" (shoopdawoop993)
05/10/2017 at 23:09, STARS: 1
track maps of a drag strip?
"McMike" (mcmike)
05/11/2017 at 05:36, STARS: 0
Yes.
Why should sports cars have all the fun with their Nürburgring, Road America, and Lime Rock stickers?