by "ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
Published 04/10/2017 at 17:29
by "ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
Published 04/10/2017 at 17:29
Tags: Planelopnik
STARS: 3
Patrick Smith, an airline pilot and travel writer, weighed in on the forcible ejection of a passenger from a United Express contract flight today.
What I sense is that the airline’s staff reached a point, after perhaps offering whatever dollar amounts their procedures called for, where they simply didn’t know what to do, and nobody was brave enough, or resourceful enough, to come up with something. Summoning the police simply became the easiest way to pass the buck. I hate to say it, but airline culture is often such that thinking creatively, and devising a proverbial outside-the-box solution, is almost actively discouraged. Everything is very rote and procedural, and employees are often so afraid of being reprimanded for making a bad decision (not to mention pressed for time) that they don’t make a decision at all, or will gladly hand the matter to somebody else who can take responsibility. By and large, workers are deterred from thinking creatively exactly when they need to.
You can read his whole post here:
http://www.askthepilot.com/passenger-forcibly-removed/
"TheTurbochargedSquirrel" (thatsquirrel)
04/10/2017 at 17:35, STARS: 1
Any way you want to look at it this is an awful move on the PR front for united.
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
04/10/2017 at 17:36, STARS: 0
I’m still in disbelief this actually happened. I’ve been on flights where they have bought people off the plan after loading but it was for someone going to see a sick relative or something so there was some sympathy. Just to dead head your crew back home? WTF were they thinking? I know for myself after a 3 day trip to California I really want to get home and see my family. I have no desire to spend the night in SLC because Delta over booked.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/10/2017 at 17:41, STARS: 2
They could have rented a car and driven the crew to their destination. It would have been a 3.5 hour drive, and the flight was delayed for 2 hours while they emptied the plane to free up the seats. This is a massive fuck up by Republic, and United is going to have to eat the bad PR.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/10/2017 at 17:43, STARS: 0
I’m waiting for United to throw Republic under the bus. Thing is, they booked their tickets on UAL.com, the tickets say United, hell, the plane probably said United, so everybody on board things it’s UAL’s fault. They’re going to have to eat the bad PR on this one.
I haven’t read many of the press reports on this, but has anybody commented that they dragged the Chinese guy out? Would they have dragged an Anglo guy out and beat him up?
"Takuro Spirit" (takurospirit)
04/10/2017 at 17:45, STARS: 2
Ida been like $800 wuuuuut? Call da boss Im gonna be sick tomrrw
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
04/10/2017 at 17:47, STARS: 0
I know right? How hard is it to rent a car?
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
04/10/2017 at 17:49, STARS: 1
I’ve seen that several times and have never taken them up on it, because it’s for vouchers, with rules. And I’m usually tired and want to go home to see my family.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
04/10/2017 at 17:50, STARS: 1
Makes sense. I experienced some similar thinking recently.
My wife and I were flying Delta from Madison to St. Maarten with a connection in Minneapolis. Originally we were supposed to have a 45 minute layover, and oh by the way Delta starts boarding all flights 45 minutes before departure, so it was going to be tight no matter what.
Our flight from Madison to Minneapolis which landed a little ahead of schedule had to sit on the tarmac for a good 15 minutes waiting for a gate to open. We got a gate in concourse C. Our flight to St. Maarten was in concourse G on the whole other end of the airport.
I had a ~10 lb backpack as my carry-on, and was wearing sneakers. My wife had a canvas beach bag and was wearing boots. Being the fitness nerd that I am, I said I would run, with my backpack, to the other gate, while my wife power-walked it.
Picture for a moment, 200 lb running back looking me, barreling through the Minneapolis airport, with my big backpack strapped down tight, sprinting moving walkways, dodging people left and right, “EXCUSE ME, SORRY, I HAVE A TIGHT CONNECTION, THANK YOU, SORRY EXCUSE ME” the whole way.
I got to the gate, where I explained to one relatively nice Delta employee that my connecting flight had been delayed in getting a gate, I ran here, and my wife would be a few minutes behind. Then she disappeared, and another, very-not-nice Delta employee, explained to me if I don’t scan my ticket soon, they would cancel my seat and pull my checked bag, but she would under no circumstances scan my ticket unless I immediately boarded the plane after she scanned it. I tried to explain again that my wife was going to be there any minute now and asked if she could please help us out by scanning my ticket and letting me wait for my wife, so our bags don’t get pulled. Not only did she refuse, this lady had the nerve to ask me, “IS SHE STOPPING TO GET FOOD? SOMETIMES PASSENGERS DO THAT, YOU KNOW.” Looking at me like it’s my fault that the Delta connecting flight I just got off of had to wait a bunch of time to get assigned a gate at the other damn side of the airport.
I re-explained to her that my connecting flight had to wait for a gate, I just sprinted through the whole airport to get to this gate in time, and my wife is on her way because she has a carry-on that’s hard to run with, so no she is not getting food and can you please just accommodate me a tiny bit by scanning my ticket so our bag goes on this plane and you don’t ruin our honeymoon.
She refused again, said if she scans my ticked I have to get on the plane right away, and then stared me in the face as she made a super annoyed-sounding announcement to the ENTIRE MINNEAPOLIS AIRPORT, “passengers on Delta flight # soandso, if you are not at the gate in the next 2 minutes, we will cancel your seats and pull your bags.” My wife still wasn’t there, and I’m like, “look, I’m just looking for a little help, can you please scan my ticket while I wait for my wife? I swear she’s on her way, but I’m not getting on the plane if she’s not with me.” Still nothing.
Finally I saw my wife come around the corner, freaking out because of the announcement this Delta lady made, and I said, “SHE’S RIGHT THERE, SCAN MY TICKET, NOW. ”
She gave me the biggest fuck-you eye roll in the history of eye rolls, and scanned my ticket. Thankfully I got a notification on the Delta app on my phone that my bag had been loaded on the plane.
I know you have procedures to follow, but even a slight bit of compassion would’ve been nice instead of being actively antagonistic.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/10/2017 at 17:56, STARS: 1
You should have written a letter to DAL. You would have gotten a response. It probably wouldn’t have been a free ticket, and the employee probably wouldn’t have been counseled, but you never know. I think Patrick Smith’s take is spot on. We all get tired, we all get sick of being at work, and falling back on strict regulations is the easiest way to get through the day without having to think. It’s a shame, though, that people can’t be a bit more compassionate. Hell, even if she had sounded like she cared, you might not have gotten upset, your wife still would have made the flight, and everybody would have gone on their way in a good mood.
"Takuro Spirit" (takurospirit)
04/10/2017 at 17:57, STARS: 5
Well I hate my family. Another day away from them is another day away.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/10/2017 at 18:00, STARS: 1
I was supposed to take a puddle jumper from O’Hare to Toledo, OH for a job interview. Winds at ORD were insane, and the pilot announced, after boarding, that it was too windy and “I’m not flying today.” So we went back to the gate and the airline started to make arrangements for a bus. No thanks. I called the company and told them what happened. There was another interviewee on the same flight, so we hooked up and rode with a girl he had met on the plane. I smoked a couple of cigars on the way and we all had a good time of it. I didn’t get the job, though (I’m glad I didn’t).
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/10/2017 at 18:01, STARS: 0
I don’t travel often, and in the last 14 years, it’s always been with kids. If it were my wife and me, we’d take the deal in a heartbeat. My brother-in-law always goes to the gate and asks if they need volunteers. Then he takes the cash and hangs out for the next flight.
"TheTurbochargedSquirrel" (thatsquirrel)
04/10/2017 at 18:07, STARS: 0
Wait, this wasn’t even really a United flight? The policy for explaining that to customers is going to change in a hurry.
"That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms" (thatbastardkurtis5)
04/10/2017 at 18:08, STARS: 0
This is the correctest thing.
"FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com" (alphaass)
04/10/2017 at 18:10, STARS: 0
I’ve been through pretty much that exact same thing. Meanwhile, I have also had my flight delayed for almost half an hour while it was held for connecting passenger that had their flight delayed. There doesn’t seem to be any logic to it at all.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
04/10/2017 at 18:13, STARS: 1
Oh, and for added irony, on my return flight layover in Minneapolis, the flight to Madison was delayed because the flight attendants had to walk from their connection that had just landed on the other side of the airport.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
04/10/2017 at 18:13, STARS: 0
Interesting, but this is a better question for Ask the Flight Attendant.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
04/10/2017 at 18:14, STARS: 0
The rules are pretty lax and you can transfer (sell) the voucher.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/10/2017 at 18:16, STARS: 1
Or Ask the Gate Agent. I’m guessing it was their call.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/10/2017 at 18:18, STARS: 1
I’d bet that it has a lot to do with domino theory. If you hold up one plane, it can affect 20 others and it just topples more dominos from there. If it’s the last flight of the day, there are fewer connections, longer connections, etc, there could be more leeway.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/10/2017 at 18:18, STARS: 0
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
"citizennick" (citizennick)
04/10/2017 at 18:21, STARS: 2
it doesn’t take much creativity to be like “hey, instead of spending $3200 to get volunteers how about the 4 us rent a car for $50 and just drive the 4.5 hours to Louisville?”
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/10/2017 at 18:23, STARS: 0
Technically, no. It was operated by a contractor company called Republic Airways (not to be confused with Republic Airlines). The crew were not employees of UAL. I think the agents in the terminal were, though. It’s not clear who made the call to remove the pax.
If you read your ticket (that very likely has “United” on it in very big letters), it will say clearly (in much smaller letters) “operated by XYZ Airlines.” I don’t know if the airplane was branded Republic or UAL, but I’m guessing the latter. Regardless, the ball is in UAL’s court right now.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/10/2017 at 18:27, STARS: 1
Especially when you factor in the 2-hour delay while they emptied the plane, removed the bloodied man on a stretcher, and then re-boarded the plane minus 4 passengers and plus 4 UAL/Republic crew members. Ultimately, the plane was 3 hours late getting to Louisville.
"ZHP Sparky, the 5th" (e30s2k)
04/10/2017 at 18:42, STARS: 1
Read elsewhere that there are rules about pilots etc. being “rested” before flight – or maybe they need X hours of breaks/rest between flights and hence driving wasn’t an option. So maybe sitting on a flight counts towards rest, but driving doesn’t? So many holes in this weird story – just one big screw up all around.
"gmporschenut also a fan of hondas" (gmporschenut)
04/10/2017 at 19:46, STARS: 0
Weirdest flight I was flying to the west coast for a wedding with a layover in Las vegas on was a jetblue. The plane boarded and then sat at the terminal for about 15 minutes. then the pilot comes on “sorry for the delay, we’re a little overweight. would anyone like to get off” everyone around like wtf. So about 10 minutes go by and the pilot comes on again. ‘We’re going to have to bump 6 passengers...... You know who you are.” then they couldn’t find the passengers luggage for another 30 minutes. My whole thought process was no way in hell am i getting off this flight and WTF kind of margin of error is there on the weight?
In this situation this is just another bullshit excuse whenever I would get stuck on one of the “partner” airlines. How to pass the buck.
"Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment" (evanmcm)
04/10/2017 at 20:15, STARS: 1
I know that over-booking happens for a reason...although I think maybe that might change in the future with smarter algos determining these sorts of things. Anyway...
If I was running this company, I’d authorize them to pay a hell of a lot more than 800 bucks to convince someone who really needed to be on that flight to get off and take a different. It didn’t have to be this guy, I’m sure there were several people that could have been persuaded for more but not too much more. That’s the only real way to solve this amicably. They’ve already bought the ticket and boarded the plane, as the company who fucked up by over-booking, the ball is really in your court to make this right. Even a fat 5k “accommodation bonus” will be a lot cheaper than whatever legal trouble they’re about to step into. Much cheaper.
"Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment" (evanmcm)
04/10/2017 at 20:18, STARS: 0
Wow, that story made my blood boil. Unfortunately, airlines are starting to suffer the consequences of their monopolistic tendencies...just like gov’t. So, they don’t really have to care. What are you gonna do anyway? Not get on the plane? Of course not. You have to. What other choice do you have? I’ve gotten similar attitude from several airline employees over the years, and their general attitude seems to be “Well, what are you going to do about it?” - and in a sense, they’re right. What change are you really going to effect?
I’ll put it this way...some people work certain jobs for a reason...because mentally that’s all they’re equipped to handle. Following rules and wrote recitation of the rule book is about all they know how to do, and they like it that way.
"Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment" (evanmcm)
04/10/2017 at 20:19, STARS: 1
This is the first I’ve seen of this, surprised no one is talking about this and, indeed, that United is not saying anything (that I’ve seen) about this either.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
04/10/2017 at 20:29, STARS: 0
It’s an $800 voucher to the same shitty airline.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/10/2017 at 20:44, STARS: 1
It would be interesting to know what sort of cargo they were hauling that put them overweight, or what those six people stowed that was too heavy. But you don’t mess around with weight on a plane.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/10/2017 at 20:46, STARS: 2
Thing is, this flight was not overbooked. They wanted to get four crew members on a full flight, so they called it overbooked and booted four people off so their own people could fly. Even with compensation, this was pretty shitty.
"greenagain" (greenagain)
04/10/2017 at 20:52, STARS: 0
If all plane tickets are pre-paid, then why over-book seats, the airline is still making all of it’s money.
To not look like such idiots they should’ve raised the $ amount until someone says YES.
"coqui70" (coqui70)
04/10/2017 at 20:52, STARS: 1
And dumb ... airlines seat people from other airlines all the time - find another flight idiots!
"coqui70" (coqui70)
04/10/2017 at 20:54, STARS: 0
That’s right - get a hotel voucher, stay at the airport hotel and hit on the hot flight attendants at the lobby bar!
"McMike" (mcmike)
04/11/2017 at 13:39, STARS: 0
I would have scanned my ticket, then walked down the Jetway.
OH SHIT! I Can’t believe I spilled my entire backback. I thought it was zipped. I’m such a clutz. My goodness. I just need to get this picked up I’m so sorry. Almost got it all, just one more magazi... OOOPS! I can’t believe my shoe fell off. Give me a minute to put my shoe back on, I should have tied them after security. Has anyone seen my ID? I had it in my shirt pocket. I think it fell out when I was picking up my things. My god I’m so sorry.
Hi honey.
*Boards flight.*
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
04/11/2017 at 13:51, STARS: 0
That would be good strategy but I was trying to stay up where my wife could see me since the gate was kind of around the bend from the main hallway. I suppose I could’ve done the backpack fumbling bit before the jetway...
"McMike" (mcmike)
04/11/2017 at 14:10, STARS: 0
I thought about that after I posted. She would have to see you.
I’m now trying to figure out how horribly clumsy I could be before they figured out I was just stalling?
I mean, if you seem too out of it, they will deny boarding. Where is the line? :)