by "HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
Published 04/06/2017 at 13:30
by "HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
Published 04/06/2017 at 13:30
No Tags
STARS: 6
UPDATE: The truck is back in the shop for the whole works. Front to back, complete brake system replace. Glad Im not footing the bill, parts alone were quoted to me by a dealership to be $3100. Protip: DON’T PUT POWER STEERING OR ATF IN YOUR BRAKE SYSTEM
So my shop accidentally contaminated my brake system with PS fluid (on account of the vendor putting PS fluid in their brake flush tank). They cleaned the tank before they did mine but its still caused major issues with my brake system. Now im back at home and they’ve replaced the master cylinder, replaced some caliper seals, tested other seals and flushed the system with cleaner meant to clear out the contamination. So far so good...but...from what I am hearing, once its in there, its nearly impossible to clear out and I will be fighting this until all system components are replaces...down to the hard lines.
The shop in Moab that did it said ATF, my shop said PS and in either case its contaminated with it, not filled with it. What are your thoughts? The shop has been trying to make it right and I hate to hand them a $1000 repair bill...but...these are my damn brakes, they’ve got to work.
EDIT: I should clarify that they feel really bad about the whole thing and are trying to make it right, comping my repair bill in Moab and putting shop credit on my account and they did tell me if it ever starts to act up they will shotgun the entire brake system. I guess the question is should I even wait for that?
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"Rico" (ricorich)
04/05/2017 at 14:42, STARS: 3
Is their vendor footing the bill for the repairs their error has caused this shop’s customers? If so make them replace it 100% and have them pass that cost to the vendor.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
04/05/2017 at 14:43, STARS: 2
Get them to replace all of it. Brakes are not something to fuck around on or take chances with.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
04/05/2017 at 14:43, STARS: 0
can’t say.
"mtdrift" (mtdrift)
04/05/2017 at 14:46, STARS: 0
There’s always the long term question for them - if you have been a loyal customer in the past, and you can overlook a mistake not of their making, and you can imply that you will be a loyal customer in the future if they make it right, the decision is obvious. They should foot the bill, no questions asked.
"Rico" (ricorich)
04/05/2017 at 14:46, STARS: 2
My opinion is that this is the vendor’s fault and now any costs incurred to the shop for replacing your brake components should be passed along to them. Not your error not your fault and coming to them a year down the road with a repair bill will not go well.
"uofime-2" (uofime-2)
04/05/2017 at 14:47, STARS: 1
Some power steering systems run ATF so for some cars they are one and the same fluid
"Stapleface" (patrickgruden)
04/05/2017 at 14:50, STARS: 1
I agree. And this should be the shop’s attitude as well, you would hope. The brake system is kind of a crucially important part of the system. Just from a safety/lawsuit standpoint, you would think they would want to get it all corrected. That’s what (their) insurance is for, anyway.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
04/05/2017 at 14:51, STARS: 0
Regardless of the specifics of how it’s being paid for as long as they’re offering to work with you on a fix and not passing the cost on to you, might as well take them up on it. There’s probably some kind of combination of insurance and/or somebody eating the cost of follow-up repairs. Maybe they share that info with you, maybe not.
"That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms" (thatbastardkurtis5)
04/05/2017 at 14:52, STARS: 0
Can’t fuck with brakes. If it was basically any other system I might show some mercy, but not the brakes.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
04/05/2017 at 14:52, STARS: 2
You said it yourself. These are your brakes. They’ve got to work. If you have any concern that you might have a problem down the road, push them to take care of it now. They will hopefully pass the cost on to the vendor, but that can’t be your problem. You have enough to worry about here. Points to you thought for being compassionate toward your shop.
Also, great pic.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
04/05/2017 at 14:53, STARS: 0
I don’t know enough to answer that question with any certainty, but that’s an awesome photo.
"TheTurbochargedSquirrel" (thatsquirrel)
04/05/2017 at 14:55, STARS: 1
Some cars use ATF in their power steering systems. That may be where that confusion is coming from. I don’t know hydraulics so I’m not sure how much a small amount of PS in the lines would effect the system.
"Future next gen S2000 owner" (future-next-gen-s2000-owner)
04/05/2017 at 15:02, STARS: 0
I am normally I’m a guy that gives in as long as someone attempts to right the wrong. But you don’t mess with brakes. Gotta do the whole system.
I’m curious though, why the contamination causes so many problems? The brakes should in theory react the same since the fluid still won’t compress. Heat? Moisture?
"Cash Rewards" (cashrewards)
04/05/2017 at 15:10, STARS: 0
I gotta think that the vendor ought to be the one footing the bill here, and it’s the shops responsibility to pursue that. But if makes you feel better, ask. If they say they’re pursing the vendor then you can sleep easy having it done so you can ditch it with a clean conscious and upgrade.
"vicali" (vicali)
04/05/2017 at 15:14, STARS: 0
100% replace; My family rides in my rig - I don’t play with their safety.
Neither do you.
"TorqueToYield" (torquetoyield)
04/05/2017 at 15:15, STARS: 0
Quick googling seems like the problem is the contaminants swell or degrade any rubber or plastics in the system. Meaning all the o-rings, the inside of the brake hoses, any gaskets. Seems like a nightmare.
"Funktheduck" (funktheduck)
04/05/2017 at 15:20, STARS: 1
Whatever you choose, get it in writing
"RallyWrench" (rndlitebmw)
04/05/2017 at 15:27, STARS: 0
The hard lines don’t care what’s in them, they should be able to be flushed thoroughly so that’s a bit much. Otherwise I think your shop needs to bill their vendor for everything in the system containing rubber or plastic. The ABS valve block & pump are a concern, and possible point of residual contamination.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
04/05/2017 at 15:30, STARS: 0
Thats my concern. Its not going to be a cheap part, a used one off an old truck is $150. New its going to be like $500
"Khalbali" (khalbali2)
04/05/2017 at 15:38, STARS: 0
PS fluid=atf fluid (more or less) we just use atf fluid at my work when we replace lines or anything.
"smobgirl" (smobgirl)
04/05/2017 at 15:40, STARS: 1
I’m a little surprised they didn’t offer to just replace everything from the get-go. It’s not really worth that sort of risk to save a relatively small amount of money on their behalf.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
04/05/2017 at 15:41, STARS: 0
well I just heard back what Toyota wants for the parts from the dealer. $3100 so its not a small thing.
"smobgirl" (smobgirl)
04/05/2017 at 15:44, STARS: 1
Yeah that’s a little worse off, but it should still (eventually) be on the vendor. It’ll cost them a lot more than that if you’re in an accident and sue!
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
04/05/2017 at 16:00, STARS: 1
EDIT: that part, it turns out, is $1900
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
04/05/2017 at 16:01, STARS: 0
Holy nads. This sounds like such a headache, really sorry to hear about it.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
04/05/2017 at 16:05, STARS: 1
me too. Protip, keep ATF FAR away from your brakes. Shockingly I just talked with Kurt at cruiser outfitters who didn’t seem to think this was a problem at all.
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
04/05/2017 at 16:10, STARS: 0
Kurt’s the man. If you need anything Toyota, he’s probably one of your best bets in the USA. Lucky for you, he’s local. I once made the mistake of swinging by the address on his website thinking it was a showroom, wound up doing a creepy drive-by of his house with (somehow) 4-5 beautiful 40 series in his driveway.
Also, ATF is pink. DOT3 is clear, like gasoline. No comprende.
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
04/05/2017 at 16:13, STARS: 0
Interesting. was he in the “Meh, run it” camp?
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
04/05/2017 at 16:16, STARS: 1
he was in the “ATF shouldn’t hurt the rubber in a brake system” camp. Which is really odd.
"TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts." (thebloody)
04/06/2017 at 13:38, STARS: 1
It’s nice that the shop is stepping up and doing right by you, are they going after their vendor for the money or just eating it themselves?
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
04/06/2017 at 13:45, STARS: 0
unknown
"Nothing" (nothingatalluseful)
04/06/2017 at 14:02, STARS: 1
Glad it’s getting appropriately resolved. Anything less than a full replacement, and I wouldn’t have felt safe.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
04/06/2017 at 14:06, STARS: 1
Thats kinda where I was sitting. Plus I am honestly considering selling it and I couldn’t feel good about it knowing the brakes could be on their way out.
"Alfalfa" (alfalfa-romeo)
04/06/2017 at 14:09, STARS: 0
Yikes. My sister once had a similar event in a Geo Metro, but the shop was much more at fault in that case. They said it needed PS fluid, she said okay. She did not know that the car didn’t have power steering, and they put it somewhere else (can’t remember where, I was like 13 when this happened). Faithful Geo was totalled.
"If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent" (essextee)
04/06/2017 at 14:26, STARS: 0
It was their mistake and they are fixing it for free. That’s the best result anyone could hope for.
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
04/06/2017 at 14:32, STARS: 2
Don’t fuck around with possible problems with brakes or tires. No matter if you drive a new Benz or a nineteen-dickety-two hooptie, your tires and brakes should be 100%, 100% of the time. Make them fix it.
"yamahog" (yamahog)
04/06/2017 at 14:56, STARS: 0
The concern is catastrophic degradation of all the rubber components.
"Future next gen S2000 owner" (future-next-gen-s2000-owner)
04/06/2017 at 15:00, STARS: 0
Does ATF of PS have that much of an effect on rubber components? How does it accelerate the degradation?
"yamahog" (yamahog)
04/06/2017 at 15:56, STARS: 0
Yes, it can complete dissolve seals. Basically any rubber or plastic components will need to be replaced. I’m not a chemical engineer but I know that much.
Also here’s this fun Reddit thread on the topic:
"Future next gen S2000 owner" (future-next-gen-s2000-owner)
04/06/2017 at 16:05, STARS: 1
"ThePenguin" (ThatOtherGuy7)
04/06/2017 at 16:23, STARS: 0
When it comes down to it, the shop messed up so they should pay for it.
" The Compromiser" (charger)
04/06/2017 at 19:06, STARS: 0
I did this once. Whole system rotted out in a week.
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
04/07/2017 at 13:32, STARS: 2
Depends on the Rubber Compound, most brake components use Butyl rubber or EPDM (ethylene propylene diene monomer), Butyl and EPDM are highly resistant to brake fluid which will destroy most natural and some synthetic rubbers. But Transmission fluid will wreck butyl rubber and EPDM in a minute (Source, I work in the rubber industry). Conversely an HNBR Rubber (Hydrogenated Nitrile Butadiene Rubber) Is great for seals and is extremely resistant to trans fluid and is “OK” with brake fluid though not as good Butyl or EPDM.