by "functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
Published 04/03/2017 at 14:39
by "functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
Published 04/03/2017 at 14:39
Tags: rants
STARS: 0
Stop it already old man, actually, a lot of things are way better than they used to be, in cars especially. Go drive a 50 year old car of any sort, then drive a comparable modern car. The “experience” might not be as good subjectively, but the modern car is objectively better in every measurable way. But what about in terms of doing your own work? Surely it gets worse every year for the DIY guy, right? Nah, not exactly. More complex? Yeah. But harder? I’m not so sure about that.
We’re buying a 2012 Volvo XC70 in the next week or two, so naturally I’ve been scouring the internet for information on the new car so I know what I’m getting into. I like to DIY anytime I can, and since this will be a third car for us, my ability to DIY won’t be as hampered by availability of free time or having to wait for parts to arrive.
One job that’s massively different from my current car, a 2003 bmw 325xi wagon with a manual transmission, is the serpentine belt. My current car even has two of them, and I can replace them in about 30 minutes including selecting a beer to have, finding a place for the beer where it won’t get knocked over while I’m working on the belts, and having a long swig of the beer after finishing because there isn’t even really beer drinking time built in to this job, it’s too simple.
The Volvo, on the other hand... I understand the serpentine belt to be something like a
3-beer
3-hour job, involving things like removing power steering hoses from the PS pump, removing the battery and entire battery box, and lots of other shenanigans. Is Swedish beer even any good? Nothing terribly advanced, mind you - and I’ll be happy to tackle it when the time comes - but the E46 really is DIY friendly in this way, and I wouldn’t call it old, just yet.
On the other...other hand, I want to put an upgraded rear sway bar in the Volvo and found that to be about the world’s easiest DIY - there’s absolutely nothing in the way of the sway bar once it’s unbolted, and the bolts are easy to reach. Yay. Installing a roof rack might actually take longer.
These days, too, you can look up how-to videos of just about any reasonable thing you might want to do on your car, so long as it’s not too obscure of a model. Even then, if you find the right forum you can extrapolate and get help with literally anything. I’ve also noticed more and more that parts suppliers like IPD and Pelican Parts have their own YouTube series videos linked right in the description of the parts listing. Brilliant! Do I even want to buy this part? Let’s see how hard it is to replace.
And we all know you can get an app for your phone that gives you not only OBDII diagnostics, but far more advanced, even real-time information about all kinds of systems and their performance. This, coupled with access to things like VIDA for Volvos with full-on factory diagnostics and how-to’s, and exploded parts diagrams just widely available to anyone, makes this a pretty good time to be a backyard mechanic. How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go? How much time do you have?
I’ll be sure to post some pics of the new car when we get it. Meanwhile, here’s what I wish it was:
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
04/03/2017 at 14:45, STARS: 6
50 year old to modern? thats unfair. But 20 years old to modern? I don’t know. I’de take the 20 year old car. At least in terms of design, features and engineering ethos, I think older new cars have a lot to prove against some older cars.
"Future next gen S2000 owner" (future-next-gen-s2000-owner)
04/03/2017 at 14:47, STARS: 1
I’ve come to realize that sometimes the headache isn’t worth the DIY money saved. I won’t do the belt on my wife’s 9-3. Nope nope nope. Access is a pain. Need a special tool, blah, blah blah. All sorts of nope.
"spanfucker retire bitch" (lelykon)
04/03/2017 at 14:49, STARS: 1
It’s something I have to keep explaining to people when they talk about how rock solid their old cars are.
“Yeah man, I slammed into a pole/car/wall/fence and not even my bumper was dented! Today’s cars definitely couldn’t do that.”
“Yeah, that’s because they didn’t build crumple zones into your car and you got to absorb the full kinetic force of hitting that object instead of letting your vehicle do it.”
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
04/03/2017 at 14:54, STARS: 2
“Yeah man, I slammed into a pole/car/wall/fence and not even my bumper was dented! Today’s cars definitely couldn’t do that.”
BECAUSE YOU WERE ONE OF THE ONES THAT LIVED! Plenty of people died or were seriously injured in old cars. They’re great to look at, fun to own, and lots of fun to drive, but let’s not forget that the “crumple zone” is your rib cage.
"itschrome" (itschrome)
04/03/2017 at 14:55, STARS: 0
the main issue with new cars in my opinion vs old is not just their weakness but also their strength. It’s all about packaging.
Modern cars are wonderfully packaged. space utilization for maximizing the cars form and function is great! Get in an old crown vic. open the hood, soo much room for activities! open the truck OMG soo much more room for activities. now sit in one.. it’s got about the same space as a Honda accord, from the 90's.
Now compare that to newer cars. open the hood and wtf am i even looking at? it’s crammed, it’s well utilized. Trunks are suffering from stupid design at the moment so really, fuck modern trucks. why is it so hard to design a usable trunk opening any more? oh yeah because every one buys cross overs.. any ways my point is now get inside a modern car and whoa there’s a lot of space. Even RWD sedans are killing that interior space.
How ever now you got all this space, but uh oh something needs fixing, good luck getting to it. For instance my fiancee’s POS 2012 Malibu. In order to change a head light you do the following:
1: remove entire front fascia
2: remove inner wheel cover, maybe the whole wheel if you can’t get hands up in there.
3: remove and replace head light
4: put everything back!
5: cry silently in the corner after spending 3 hours to change a fucking light bulb...
ugh.. modern cars...
"Jack Does Cars" (jackdoescars)
04/03/2017 at 14:58, STARS: 1
I no longer want my V70, I want that V70.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
04/03/2017 at 15:00, STARS: 1
Go drive a 50 year old car...better in every measurable way
Actually, I’m not so sure - displacement from a bump is measurable, right? Because that’s one area in which my oldsters absolutely rock the house. They were designed in an era in which almost everybody had encounters with roads that sucked absolute ass, and it shows. I have literally never been in a modern car that gave so few fucks about potholes as the Galaxie. Never. It gets that way from having giant bricks of rubber on and under literally everything to the point it looks like a joke, and rear overhang/comparatively narrow track that hurt performance - to a point - while squashing anything unsettling, anything at all. Because it’s meant to.
There are other measures, too. See, in our modern age of ergonomics, we take the wrong lesson and say that the car only has to have thus and so dimensional measurements for a full range of motion in a full-grown man. That may be true, but optimizing down to that measurement and making a seat that holds a man there securely - the mind and body know. If the car is designed to offer large spaces in an abundance of caution, it can be better in numbers that can be measured - height under dash, distance to dash, pitch of seat, relief from seat cushion to floor, space over head....
Bottom line, when so many things in a car are based on compromises and the whole nature of the compromises shifts so much over time, it is absolutely possible for a 50 year old car to be better in more than imaginary ways.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
04/03/2017 at 15:02, STARS: 0
Eh...certain things are a lot easier on old (50+ years) cars. Diagnosing engine issues is a lot easier. Also, swapping out major components is a lot easier. I pulled the transmission and drive shaft out of my ‘66 GMC in less than an hour in my driveway using like three wrenches. But yeah, they definitely don’t drive as nice or make as much power per unit of gasoline burned.
"Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow" (chriskf)
04/03/2017 at 15:03, STARS: 1
Toyota and Subaru built a car like the used to, and most people do nothing but complain about it. People are never satisfied.
"Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig" (AndySheehan-StreetsideStig)
04/03/2017 at 15:11, STARS: 1
I like your Volvo.
I also like my ‘87 CRX more than my ‘06 Civic. I’m driving the CRX today because the Civic is in the shop.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
04/03/2017 at 15:18, STARS: 1
Subaru made another BRAT?!
"Aaron M - MasoFiST" (amarks563)
04/03/2017 at 15:20, STARS: 1
A 1997 Golf GTI cost about $30,000 (adjusted for inflation), and was a 2800 pound car with 170 horsepower. A 2017 Golf GTI will cost you $28,000 for a Sport model, gains 250 pounds, but also 50 horsepower. Also, the fuel economy went from 19/25 to 24/34.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
04/03/2017 at 15:25, STARS: 0
sure but find me a rugged 7 seat SUV with axle lockers front and rear...
"Nothing" (nothingatalluseful)
04/03/2017 at 15:25, STARS: 1
With customization, the only thing I can’t make my 50 year old car be is as safe as a modern car. The problem now with a 50 year old car is that it’s 50 years old. Drive it new off the lot 50 years ago (not some half assed “restored” Mustang) and the experience would be quite different.
Mechanically, most things are pretty darn similar. Cars still steer, they still go up and down, and they still have an engine that goes boom and something that makes them stop. How you get to those things to work on them is one of the biggest differences. In the end, it’s all nuts and bolts.
That said, I’m glad I have the option of new car/old car. I can take whichever depending on climate, mood, or purpose.
"Aaron M - MasoFiST" (amarks563)
04/03/2017 at 15:36, STARS: 0
I mean, in 1997 there was, what, the Range Rover and the Land Cruiser in that category? I’m sure I may be missing some but it’s not exactly a large enough segment for most to really care about and it wasn’t 20 years ago either. Toyota still sells a Land Cruiser with axle lockers wherever it’s actually a selling point...that is to say, third world countries.
"Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow" (chriskf)
04/03/2017 at 16:02, STARS: 0
Well, minus two rear facing seats and plus two doors and the Baja is sort of a new Brat... lol
"CobraJoe" (cobrajoe)
04/03/2017 at 16:33, STARS: 1
Go drive a 50 year old car of any sort, then drive a comparable modern
car. The “experience” might not be as good subjectively, but the modern
car is objectively better in every measurable way.
Isn’t Jalopnik a place where the “Experience” of driving a car is celebrated? My wife’s old Toyota Corolla was probably “better” in almost every measurable way than an old 6cyl Mustang, but that Corolla was also the worst car I’ve ever driven.
Besides, even with the modern OBD II diagnostics, it’s not always easy to discover what the problem actually is. A code stating “Misfire on startup” on our old VW Passat was actually caused by a massive build up of carbon in the intake. An O2 sensor reading lean could be caused by multiple issues with difficulties ranging from a dirty MAF sensor to a leaking intake gasket to almost anything in the fuel system. Old carbed engines WERE easier to diagnose. It was either spark, fuel, or compression causing the problem. (Granted, carbs are a lot harder to tune, though they do require far less tech and expertise).
I have nothing against old cars or new cars, but ranting about how new cars are “better” is exactly the same as ranting about how old cars are “better” except for the exact definition of “better”.
"4kc" (4kc)
04/03/2017 at 17:30, STARS: 1
visibility is way better in an older car than any modern car. by that virtue alone i *feel* safer driving it.
in my crosstrek i backed into things a couple times, blew out a tire on a rock i couldn’t see, and went up many curbs. in my cressida i can see where the curb is and know exactly where the front and rear of my car are. i haven’t hit anything with it except when pushing my starlet up my old driveway.
sure, the crosstrek did way better when it got totaled than my cressida would have in the same accident. but i really believe i might have had a long enough moment to react to the guy who had decided to take a right from the left lane, instead of the too late realization of being fucked.
"4kc" (4kc)
04/03/2017 at 17:32, STARS: 0
idk if 14 years ago counts as “new”
it could get a driving permit in a lot of states at this point lol
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
04/03/2017 at 19:36, STARS: 0
That’s true, though not *all* modern cars have terrible visiblity; the trend is clearly toward worse.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
04/03/2017 at 19:39, STARS: 0
50 was definitely just a number picked a little randomly. 20 years ago, I think cars were in a sweet spot after OBDII where there were some electronics where you want them - EFI, engine management, electric windows and locks that work - but not a million extra CAN-BUS components, safety systems, and infotainment systems that cost as much to replace as a decent running car on Craigslist.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
04/03/2017 at 19:45, STARS: 0
You’re right that in the name of handling (or fashion!) wheels have gotten bigger at the expense of ride comfort, with few exceptions if any.
I, for one, also don’t like huge seats. The seats in my Suburban were too big for me. I’m 5'10" but only 145lbs. So... I swim around in big car seats. Fine as a passenger in a cab. Not so much as a driver.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
04/03/2017 at 19:48, STARS: 0
It’s true that access to parts can be an absolute bitch. But that can, to some extent, be designed properly, too. I looked at the engine bay of the 2012 XC70 and cringed at the thought of reaching a headlight bulb. But I looked it up online, and you know what those clever Swedes did? They designed in a little way to remove the whole headlight assembly with a little latch. Solved! Now why couldn’t Chevy do that?
There are countless examples, though, where modern cars have inexpensive parts in impossible-to-reach places. Access isn’t an issue on my ‘61 Ford for... anything. That’s for sure.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
04/03/2017 at 19:56, STARS: 0
As the proud owner of a 1961 Ford, I am with you that modern cars aren’t better in every way. The Ford is more engaging to drive than any modern car because it’s a little unpredictable. It’s underpowered. Its shift pattern takes up most of the cab. You can’t adjust the heat from inside the cab. The brakes are a little variable. But man, it’s great. I’ll probably never get rid of it. When something breaks you just look at it and see what’s wrong. There’s not a single piece of plastic in the truck, anywhere.
When I hear the expression in my title, it’s usually in the context of how something is now worse than it used to be. I’m just ranting a little on ways that modern cars are actually great, even in their complexity. I sure do love opening the hood of my ‘61, though.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
04/03/2017 at 19:57, STARS: 0
Me too, I’m glad I can drive and/or fix something old and simple when I want to. It also makes me appreciate how well everything works in my modern cars. Like adjusting the heat from inside the car.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
04/03/2017 at 20:02, STARS: 1
Diagnostics are no contest, especially if you go back before any electronics at all, where the most complex electrical part may have been a relay. My ‘61 Ford has 4 or 5 fuses, I can’t remember which. That’s it. It didn’t even come with factory reverse lights. It is so delightfully simple!
My rant is partly inspired by the fact that a repair on my ‘03 BMW which is by all measures “modern” is extremely easy, while for no reason except packaging it’s very hard on the Volvo.
Speaking of packaging, someone else brought up a terrible headlight bulb change story - I’ve heard several, involving removing whole front bumpers and the like. Certainly that’s a foreign concept to any car prior to 1975. But the 2012 Volvo has a very elegant solution. The whole headlight assembly has two tabs that you can pull up, then you disconnect a wire harness and slide the whole headlight assembly right out to change a bulb. Perfect!
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
04/03/2017 at 20:04, STARS: 0
This can be true, no doubt. I don’t have a good way to get a car on jack stands right now, that doesn’t involve lying in the dirt. That deters me from some otherwise simple stuff...
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
04/03/2017 at 20:05, STARS: 0
I do too. At this point I’m resigned to the fact that V70Rs are on their third owners, being driven like they were stolen. Probably not worth the maintenance headache at this age in their lives.
I also learned that the XC70 with the T6 puts out 300hp and the Polestar tune gets you to 325. Handling? Not as good. Also automatic only. But 325hp Volvo wagon! That’s not a bad thing.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
04/03/2017 at 20:06, STARS: 0
The blue one? Me too. I wish I was getting that, and not a black XC70.
"Jack Does Cars" (jackdoescars)
04/03/2017 at 21:06, STARS: 0
That T6 is a fantastic engine. I saw a V60 R-Design at the Volvo dealer last week with it’s hood up and I didn’t realize just how long the engine was. Yeah, it’s a horizontally mounted I-6, but it’ just so...long.
Now, there is a man locally who still has the gray V70R he bought new back in 2005. He has quite a bushy moustache.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
04/03/2017 at 21:38, STARS: 0
I suppose those are out there, original owners holding on. I wonder what he’s spent in repairs, total. Preferred unit of measurement is Craigslist beaters. I’d say at least 12 (one per year).
"Jack Does Cars" (jackdoescars)
04/03/2017 at 21:47, STARS: 0
I’ve only talked to him once. He’s a good guy, properly bushy moustache.
"Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig" (AndySheehan-StreetsideStig)
04/04/2017 at 09:03, STARS: 1
Oof. That’s rough.
"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
04/04/2017 at 10:35, STARS: 2
Well, somehow I convinced my wife to keep my ‘03 325xi manual wagon and also her manual X3... so I’ll still DD my wagon most of the time.
Our next Volvo will definitely be a T6 XC70 and hopefully the price for a polestar tune will have come down a bit. It’s only 25 more hp but 325hp in a straight-6 turbo Volvo sounds good to me.
And I did order an IPD sway bar for my XC70.
"Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig" (AndySheehan-StreetsideStig)
04/04/2017 at 10:46, STARS: 0
