by "Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
Published 04/03/2017 at 14:26
by "Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
Published 04/03/2017 at 14:26
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STARS: 0
...about the Toyobaru twins.
I love my Outback, but she gets thirsty around town, and most of the time she’s more car than I need. Plus with 185,000 miles on the clock I want to start using her less so I can keep her around a good long time. So I decided to take all this as an excuse for a second car. Something cheaper to fuel and run, but at the same time sporty and more fun in corners. It also
can’t
be too practical, because if it does too much of what the Outback does then I’d have more trouble justifying both cars to myself. This is what ruled out the FiST as an option.
I’ve got a timeline planned out, and probably won’t be making any purchase until spring of next year (want to pay off my credit cards first), so I’ve got plenty of time to do my research, weigh options, and get an idea exactly what I’m looking for. So for starters here’s some things I want to know. How’s the rear visibility? (Not expecting great, just hoping it’s not terrible) How’s the reliability? Any issues to look out for, particularly in the early models? How well can a larger person (6'0", 210 lbs) fit in it? How’s the comfort for short drives and medium/long trips? If you own/owned one, would you recommend it? Would you buy it again? If not a Toyobaru, what other cars might fit my criteria?
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
04/03/2017 at 14:30, STARS: 1
You’ll fit fine, rear visibility is just OK, reliable as any other non-turbo Subaru, firm ride, friend owned one, would recommend if you only need a sports car.
"avalonian" (avalonain19)
04/03/2017 at 14:33, STARS: 0
How about an ecoboost? Tom on the FP recommended it, might be a better alternative, plus crowd control! ;)
"CB" (jrcb)
04/03/2017 at 14:33, STARS: 0
The front page said that there are big discounts on Ecoboost Mustangs, so maybe consider one of those as well?
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
04/03/2017 at 14:34, STARS: 0
I’ve heard the ride is firm. I’m not immediately concerned because for a month or so I was dailying one of the rally cars and good lord are they stiff, but I do want to drive a BRZ around and see just how firm it is. I suppose I could always just swap to the Outback on the days when I’m not in the mood for it lol.
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
04/03/2017 at 14:36, STARS: 0
I’d written them off as too new too money, but after checking his article I’d say they’re a maybe. My ceiling will probably be somewhere around $18k
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
04/03/2017 at 14:38, STARS: 1
I would personal be boring and get a Miata for that sweet top-down driving
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
04/03/2017 at 14:40, STARS: 1
My only experience with them is a quick test drive in an FR-S.
Background: I’m a 5'11" 200 lbs fitness nerd and I grew up on early 90s Acuras with great sight lines so I don’t take kindly to high beltlines and small windows.
The FR-S is definitely not the roomiest feeling car with a bit of a tall dash and sill height, the transmission tunnel/center console, and the seat is heavily bolstered.
My E92 335xi is juuuust roomy enough for me. It’s not huge inside but it’s a more open cabin with bigger windows. The seats have adjustable bolsters, because I’m fancy. I have them at their widest setting to accommodate my bigass fitness nerd lats.
My wife’s 2016 Impreza has the kind of visibility I love.
So I’d say how much you like it depends on how much roominess you’re wanting.
"TheTurbochargedSquirrel" (thatsquirrel)
04/03/2017 at 14:46, STARS: 0
My dad really likes his. Can’t tell you about what it is like to drive as he has refused to let me drive it (though I have now been driving a manual for almost a year so his excuse is gone). Oddly enough it is the best car my family owns as far as comfort on a road trip goes (disclaimer, we haven’t done any road trips in my mom’s new 2017 Outback but the seats in the BRZ are 100x better than our 2001 Outback). I have done the 4 hour trip to/from school in it and neither of us are uncomfortable at the end of the trip. You know how my dad is built and the BRZ fits him like a glove. From the passenger seat handling on twisty roads seems really good and it is plenty quick enough with 200hp. Gas mileage is up around the 30mpg mark. No issues with the car at 22k (2013 model) other than the chirping fuel pump which is just something they all do. Don’t know what rear visibility is like (again I haven’t driven it yet) but my dad hasn’t complained and it has giant side mirrors.
"Boxer_4" (Boxer_4)
04/03/2017 at 14:47, STARS: 0
Full disclosure, I’ve never driven one, but I’ve sat in them a bunch and am generally familiar with them. There are probably more qualified people around here though...anyway...
Rear visibility is decent to good. Definitely one of the best sporty coupes on the market right now. I’m spoiled with my Forester though...
Reliability and issues wise, nothing come to mind immediately. There was a TSB for the high pressure fuel pump that makes a chirping noise but has no impact on operation. The first 6 months of production or so had issues with water getting into tail lights. Nothing significant as far as I remember.
I’m 6ft and ~190 lbs; the seats are well bolstered but not too tight. Turning around in your seat is more effort due to the width bolstering by the shoulders (sit in one, you’ll see what I mean). Overall, I’ve always found I fit great in these, much better than the current Miata.
Try out both before deciding; the pre-facelift models were tuned slightly differently from each other from a suspension perspective. I’m not sure if that’s still the case.
"fourvalleys" (fourvalleys)
04/03/2017 at 14:47, STARS: 0
I had a BRZ before my Fiesta... let’s see what I can tackle here.
Rear visibility is ok. I didn’t have any issues with it, others don’t love it. This is one of those things you really have to see if it works for you specifically. What’s good for me might not be good for you - I thought the CR-Z with its huge C-pillar and hatch crossbar was fine.
Reliability... Mine was fine. No mechanical issues that needed to be addressed. There were little issues like the synchros starting to get weird around 18-20k miles, but nothing major. Having said that, a big part of the reason I sold it was because it felt like it was about to break. It didn’t break, but it just didn’t feel solid. (To be fair, the Fiesta isn’t much better, but that’s mostly rattles)
The 86 models are VERY tall-person friendly. Seriously, 6'0" and 210 is nothing for these cars. You sit low, and there’s a lot of room to move back.
I’ve done a few road trips as a driver (24+ hours) and a passenger (7ish hours). Both were fine. I wouldn’t say it’s the most comfortable car out there, but it’s fine. The ride is stiff, but what the heck were you expecting? I never had an issue with it. Also, as a matter of preference, the seats I like the most are the ones in the Premium (base) BRZ. No alcantara.
Would I recommend one? Sure. I don’t think I’d buy another unless it was a track car, because holy cow they’re fun for that. But as a DD? Nah, I like the Fiesta a lot more for that.
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
04/03/2017 at 14:53, STARS: 1
Dusty cannot (willnot) into Miata
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
04/03/2017 at 14:54, STARS: 0
Miata Miata Miata Miata Miata. But really, the FRS is great. In comparison to my NB, the FRS feels like a minivan inside. Just so much space and of course the storage bin (also known as a back “seat”) is very convenient to have. It handled exactly like my Miata does aside from the Prius tires. But that is an easy correction and I could 100% replace my Miata with one of those and be happy. Would need a SUPER loud exhaust though since there is a damn roof in the way of me enjoying it!
My Miata fits me like a glove being 6'0 and like 150 pounds. The FRS was ridiculously roomy and comfortable in comparison.
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
04/03/2017 at 14:54, STARS: 0
Yeah, like I said, can’t justify having both the Outback and a Fiesta, too much overlap. Need something without a hatch, and probably without rear doors.
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
04/03/2017 at 14:55, STARS: 0
:(
http://rallytakeover.kinja.com/can-you-rally-a-miata-1770272472
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
04/03/2017 at 14:56, STARS: 0
Ooh, I forgot your dad has one. I should bug him about letting me drive it.
"ScoobsMcGee" (scoobsmcgee)
04/03/2017 at 14:56, STARS: 0
At 6'1" and 220 I fit without issue, but don’t expect anything out of the back seats other than an insurance discount over a two seater. I recently drove the car from York, PA to Tybee Island, Georgia and back. About 12 hours each way (accidents, van on fire, speeding ticket in VA, the usual), stopping only for gas. Absolutely preferred the BRZ to the FiST for that long of a drive.
Reliability has been fine so far at just over 33,000 miles on my 2015, and while I do keep on top of maintenance and regularly check the oil between change intervals, I also beat the crap out of it. Stay away from the early 2013s as there are some sporadically reported issues of oil consumption and engine failure. Most common complaint on the pre-2017s is a chirp noise from the fuel pump (crickets). Completely harmless, but annoying. There is a TSB that may or may not address it by using a new for 2017 fuel pump. Had mine changed 3000 miles ago and so far so good. As with most cars, problems become more likely if you mod.
Rear visibility is much better than the FiST, but the C pillar creates a horrible blind spot. You’ll learn to straighten out on any turns that intersect a main road at anything other than a 90 degree angle, or else you’ll have to stick your head out the window to see.
Let me know if you want any other info.
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
04/03/2017 at 15:01, STARS: 2
Miata?
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
As for the exhaust, my boys at Nameless have that covered
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
04/03/2017 at 15:08, STARS: 1
"FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem" (fuelstratifiedinjection)
04/03/2017 at 15:09, STARS: 0
I only have about 4 1/2 hours of seat time in the BRZ on the Autobahn and some twisty Eiffel roads from last week’s Europpomeet and it did very well. The visibility is just okay, as is the trunk and you’ll only fit leg amputees and maybe baby seats in the back but it is a sports car after all. But the boxer 4 and handling will make up for all of it imo.
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
04/03/2017 at 15:14, STARS: 0
Yeah, I have no intention of ever using the back seat as anything more than the occasional shelf. If I ever need to carry more than one passenger or more than one bag I’ll use the Outback.
"TheTurbochargedSquirrel" (thatsquirrel)
04/03/2017 at 15:16, STARS: 1
You should.
"FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem" (fuelstratifiedinjection)
04/03/2017 at 15:17, STARS: 1
I strongly suggest you to test drive one then. I want one after having driven one haha.
"jovimon7" (jovimon7)
04/03/2017 at 15:39, STARS: 0
Ecoboost Mustang FTW !
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
04/03/2017 at 15:46, STARS: 0
Have you considered our lord and savior, the MR2 Spyder? 6'3 fits (just about) fine, with leg room being the limiting factor. Roof down and you’ve got all the visibility you want. No risk of it being practical either.
Anyway, haven’t driven the BRZ/GT86, but they seem nice. Probably wouldn’t buy one myself, though I don’t really know why.
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
04/03/2017 at 16:04, STARS: 1
I like having a roof
"smobgirl" (smobgirl)
04/03/2017 at 16:07, STARS: 0
Abarth!
"gawdzillla" (gawdzillla)
04/03/2017 at 16:36, STARS: 0
you can drop the top on that miata and you’ll get all the headroom you’d ever need
"Stef Schrader" (stefschrader)
04/03/2017 at 23:16, STARS: 0
Stef needs one more.
Stef needs one firstest.
???
I need money.
"Stef Schrader" (stefschrader)
04/03/2017 at 23:17, STARS: 0
starred for “nope”
"Stef Schrader" (stefschrader)
04/03/2017 at 23:18, STARS: 1
pretty sure that’s why we’re friends
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
04/04/2017 at 00:30, STARS: 0
Dusty getting one firstest. The plan has been engaged
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
04/04/2017 at 00:37, STARS: 0
Just checked the fuel economy on those. Dayum.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
04/04/2017 at 00:54, STARS: 0
Makes sense. There was a hardtop available, but it’s rare in the US afaik.
The Genesis and 350-70Z might fit your needs as well, but they’re heavier of course. The Z3 and Z4 coupes are other alternatives, but probably less reliable and more expensive to maintain
"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
04/04/2017 at 07:38, STARS: 0
Yes, I like to say that I have infinite headroom! The head room is not really the concern generally. You can easily fit a person up to like 6'3 or 6'4 in a Miata but its the legroom and shoulder room that gets tight and unfixable. But I have found that I fit better in my Miata than I do in the pre 2006 honda civics. Those cars dont allow the front seats to go back far enough so I end up cramped up which is infuriating since there is still so much room in the seldom-used back seat area.
"smobgirl" (smobgirl)
04/04/2017 at 09:20, STARS: 0
Seems to vary greatly by user!
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
04/04/2017 at 09:58, STARS: 0
What are you getting?
"smobgirl" (smobgirl)
04/04/2017 at 10:07, STARS: 0
Mine’s right around 30, mostly city driving - unless I drive like an asshole for a solid week or so. It got about 34 on a cross-country trip. A few of the guys here seem to only be hitting in the 20s though.
Curious to hear what you think of a BRZ/FRS after a test drive! Seems like such a hit or miss car as far as speed/power perception go.
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
04/04/2017 at 11:36, STARS: 1
I know it sounds like blasphemy but I honestly don’t care that much about power. I just want something fun and tossable like the 944 I drove at LeMons Rally or the FiST I autocrossed a few years back.
"smobgirl" (smobgirl)
04/04/2017 at 11:57, STARS: 1
No, I get it. It’s more the perception of power that makes it tossable. I mean, when you look at the numbers my car isn’t particularly impressive but it cracks me up to drive it (also I love turbo lag). I had a loaner Infiniti that would’ve toasted my car in a 0-60 run but it just felt heavy. I’ve never driven a Toyobaru but I’m just curious what you think of it after all of your other driving experience.
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
04/04/2017 at 12:13, STARS: 0
Do you remember which suspension is tuned more towards what?
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
04/04/2017 at 12:16, STARS: 0
I assume the fuel pump is tank mounted? Any idea how far into 2013 the oil issues went?
"ScoobsMcGee" (scoobsmcgee)
04/04/2017 at 12:50, STARS: 1
HPFP under the hood. The noise is only at idle, and really if you have the windows up and/or stereo on, you won’t hear it unless you’re specifically trying to listen for it. It did discourage me from using fast food drive throughs, which is kind of a benefit?
Not sure on how far into the 2013 run to avoid. I would suggest to just look for a 2014 or newer.
Along those lines: 2015 saw some new interior trim pieces and a revision to the suspension to make the FR-S and BRZ the same (2013 - 2014 the FR-S is more oversteery and BRZ more understeery). 2016 introduced a new head unit without optional nav, but a review camera (at least on the BRZ, not sure about FR-S on that one). 2017 was the refresh.
"Boxer_4" (Boxer_4)
04/04/2017 at 12:53, STARS: 0
The FRS is tuned more towards oversteer, while the BRZ is tuned more towards understeer. I’m not sure if the facelift model still follows this; I wouldn’t be surprised if it did.
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
04/04/2017 at 20:06, STARS: 0
Thank you! That’s very useful
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
04/04/2017 at 20:20, STARS: 0
When they made them the same do you know if they went more towards understeer or oversteer?
"ScoobsMcGee" (scoobsmcgee)
04/05/2017 at 09:45, STARS: 1
Slightly toward understeer from what I understand, but I haven’t noticed it myself. To be fair, this is my first RWD car and I’m on public roads, so I’m not pushing it nearly as hard as I could. Also, I replaced the stock tires with some stickier rubber. With that the car feels very neutral to me.
"Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire" (arch-duke-maxyenko)
04/05/2017 at 20:26, STARS: 0
128i