by "Victorious Secret" (victorioussecret)
Published 03/29/2017 at 14:37
by "Victorious Secret" (victorioussecret)
Published 03/29/2017 at 14:37
No Tags
STARS: 11
BMW 3 MSRP = $33, 450
Audi A4 MSRP = $34,900
Mercedes C300 MSRP = $39,500
Suspected Model 3 MSRP $35,000
All base prices, in USD.
So what is it fanboys? Are the German 3 just poser cars that aren’t luxury, or is the Model 3 luxury?
Seeing all the “but its only 35k and isn’t really luxury” excuses for anything the car has/doesn’t have is getting annoying. Shit doesn’t cut both ways, either the segment it competes in is luxury or its not.
By this ass backwards logic, is the S or X not luxury either? Is that the tagline to use whenever someone says something is wrong with the car?
I see the circlejerk went from brown, diesel, manual wagons to Tesla.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
03/29/2017 at 14:39, STARS: 4
I still mostly just jerk it to Ruxtons.
"Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero" (sampsonite24)
03/29/2017 at 14:40, STARS: 3
if youre going off price alone 35k would also put it in Focus RS territory along with the 3 series and i wouldnt call the focus RS a luxury car, i wouldnt call the model 3 a luxury car either. its just a midsize electric sedan
"Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street." (demon-xanth)
03/29/2017 at 14:42, STARS: 1
One could argue total cost of ownership as an electric car requires less maintenance and fuel costs than a gas powered car. But I don’t know the numbers.
"Milky" (jordanmielke)
03/29/2017 at 14:42, STARS: 0
Why don’t we wait for it to come out before we say whether its a luxury car or not?
I’d personally take its interior over a 3-Series’.
"Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell." (oppisitelock)
03/29/2017 at 14:44, STARS: 0
Here theyre called executive cars. Not quite luxurious but a bit nicer than your average family car. Its clear youre buying into an idea of the future with the tesla and not a car though. People are willing to overlook quality issues to have a vehicle thats pushing a new way of doing things, or the obnoxious idea of saving the world.
"Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever" (superchan7)
03/29/2017 at 14:46, STARS: 1
They all compete and are all some different variation of luxury and performance.
I would hesitate to call a 3 series a true “luxury car.”
"Party-vi" (party-vi)
03/29/2017 at 14:47, STARS: 13
WHERE THE FUCK HAVE YOU BEEN YOUR FATHER AND I HAVE BEEN WORRIED SICK!?!?
"TorqueToYield" (torquetoyield)
03/29/2017 at 14:47, STARS: 2
Ohhh, let’s play the ‘find the most utilitarian car you can for $35k’ game! Pretty sure you can get 35k Outbacks, F150s, Silverados, Camrys, Taurii, etc etc etc. Tis a silly game.
What’s really funny is that in Germany they use E-class as a standard taxi. Does that mean German taxis are just luxury cars or that E-classes are not luxury cars? Mercedes also offers cars as low as the A-class, the horror!
Not every BMW and Mercedes is a luxury car...Not even every E class is a luxury car...
"Tripper" (tripe46)
03/29/2017 at 14:48, STARS: 0
If the model S is any indicator, regardless of price the Germans will still be a lot nicer. The model s has a garbage interior, especially when compared to anything it competes with.
"Tekamul" (tekamulburner)
03/29/2017 at 14:49, STARS: 0
The first model 3s will still see the $7,500 tax credit if they hit 2018 production schedule. Some after will receive half that, then a quarter. Those seeing the largest credit would not consider the prices comparable.
I’m in no way defending that approach, since most would not see a large credit. But this could at least explain some of the mindset.
When I bought my Zero motorcycle, the 10% tax credit definitely factored into my cross shopping.
"jariten1781" (jariten1781)
03/29/2017 at 14:49, STARS: 3
Ford Transit MSRP = $34,140
It’s a cargo van.
"Nisman" (nisman)
03/29/2017 at 14:50, STARS: 3
But, I mean, a Subaru WRX is $35k and it surely isn’t a luxury car. Just because two cars are in the same price range does not put them in the same class.
"fintail" (fintail)
03/29/2017 at 14:50, STARS: 0
Can’t wait til those tax gifts expire.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
03/29/2017 at 14:51, STARS: 2
The Focus RS would be a Premium Category car, specifically a performance model. It’s only a “luxury item” in the same way that buying a racehorse is, which is to say a luxury, but not luxurious in the traditional sense. The model 3 would also be a luxury in that sense - more than a standard item because it offers a premium value-add. Arguably one that is mostly pretentiousness, though, which is a part of being luxurious as normally understood.
Which brings the whole thing back around to whether it is failing as a luxury car if it *kind of* is one. Much as a Range Rover that breaks all the time is offering only *some* of the luxury trappings, with “reliability” not on the table.
"Frenchlicker" (frenchlicker)
03/29/2017 at 14:51, STARS: 0
I understand your viewpoint and if I was buying one I would definitely look at it that way too. It appears people just look at it as the price of somewhat emerging technology. Look at the price of the bolt and at what the 500e and smart electric were, they definitely fell out of their segments.
"Party-vi" (party-vi)
03/29/2017 at 14:52, STARS: 0
RILDs? Ruxton I’d Like to Drive?
"Victorious Secret" (victorioussecret)
03/29/2017 at 14:52, STARS: 2
I’ve been getting my MD. Well, half of it at any rate.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
03/29/2017 at 14:52, STARS: 5
I don’t know where this “but it’s not luxury” talk is originating, but...
The 320i starts at $33,450 with a measly 180 hp (“but it’s torquey!”), vinyl seats, halogen headlights, no sunroof, no power or heated seats, no backup camera, no folding back seat.
The A4 starts at $34,900 with 190 hp, fwd, and a decent amount of equipment except for no power or heated seats.
The C300 starts at $39,500.
Just sayin’.
"Party-vi" (party-vi)
03/29/2017 at 14:53, STARS: 9
So have you been getting the M?
(•_•)
( •_•)>-
Or the D? (_)
"Victorious Secret" (victorioussecret)
03/29/2017 at 14:53, STARS: 2
Do you really, really think the “35k” 3 is going to come equipped any better? Even Tesla, sole expert in burning VC, can’t afford to do that on a ‘mainstream’ car.
If people cry over how the Germans price their options, I don’t know what to tell you about how the Model 3 will end up being. 35k becomes 50k before you know what you selected.
Its just baffling the amount of scraped knees that Tesla is capable of garnering, its a special level of devotion to the brand.
"Victorious Secret" (victorioussecret)
03/29/2017 at 14:54, STARS: 5
The D comes first, it is known
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
03/29/2017 at 14:54, STARS: 0
The less fluids and moving parts on board the better.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
03/29/2017 at 14:56, STARS: 0
I engaged in some weaselry/sophistry elsewhere in this conversation: “Premium Category” car. A vehicle that offers a premium in a specific category that a customer is willing to pay for - in this case, space - which increases its cost above “generic car” without dictating it to be a luxury car. If, however, the premium trait is a stereotype luxury trait (prestige, perceived quality, etc. etc.) then the definition as anything *other than* a luxury car gets muddled.
I have no problem calling a Land Cruiser a luxury car via the back door, as it were, but would also have no problems with any argument that this or that should be more luxurious with it. Such an argument is not clearly wrong.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
03/29/2017 at 14:59, STARS: 0
It might involve spreading out on the back seat and feeling the Wolseley die seam lines under the window while moaning. I mean, I’m not going to specifically exclude that.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
03/29/2017 at 15:06, STARS: 0
I was under the impression the Model 3 was supposed to be the electric car for the masses? As in, not a luxury car. The price is kind of irrelevant as the average price of a car in the US is right around $33k. Plus, with the tax incentives most states offer, you’re really getting the car for around $26k which is what something like a base model Wrangler goes for.
"Rust and Dust - Oppositelock Forever" (rustanddust)
03/29/2017 at 15:06, STARS: 2
Kinky.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
03/29/2017 at 15:07, STARS: 0
The WRX starts at $26k.
"BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo" (bluemazda2)
03/29/2017 at 15:08, STARS: 0
Welcome back!
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
03/29/2017 at 15:24, STARS: 3
The Model 3 isn’t out yet. We don’t know what it will or won’t come standard with.
But there’s always going to be cars that on the surface offer more or less value than others based on things like brand, perceived premium-ness, or whatever.
Just looking at equipment, a Honda Civic Touring is $26,600 and has a 174 hp turbo motor and way more equipment than any of the base 3/C/A4. LED headlights, sunroof, power seats, heated front and rear seats, real leather not vinyl, split folding rear seat, auto-dim mirror, premium stereo, CarPlay, Android Auto, navigation, backup camera, LaneWatch passenger side mirror camera, touch-the-door-handle keyless entry, lane departure warning, active braking, lane keep assist, adaptive cruise control.
A comparably equipped 320i with 6 whole horsepower more and metallic paint (which Honda doesn’t charge extra for) is $43,870, and it only has CarPlay, Android users are out of luck.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
03/29/2017 at 15:27, STARS: 1
And another factor to consider is that the 3-series, A4, and C-Class aren’t luxury cars in their home market, but rather company cars. They’re competing against the Ford Mondeo (read: Fusion), Opel Insignia (read: Buick Regal), and VW Passat. They’re straight-up normal cars, although premium, not cheap.
It’s just in the US, where those brands have a high image, where they’re treated as luxury cars. And, you can get really high trims of the 3/A4/C in Europe, that are luxury trims. A company car in the US would just as likely be a Fusion, though, which is just a Mondeo with a rear window that doesn’t move with the trunk lid.
"Nisman" (nisman)
03/29/2017 at 15:36, STARS: 0
Ok, a WRX Limited is $35k. My point remains.
"nermal" (nermal)
03/29/2017 at 15:43, STARS: 0
I think the $35k Model 3 will have the rental car spec interior as well, so they should line up nicely.
"nermal" (nermal)
03/29/2017 at 15:44, STARS: 1
If you’re going by pricing, $35k is Camry territory as well.
"Manwich - now Keto-Friendly" (manwich)
03/29/2017 at 15:46, STARS: 0
I would argue that the base model BMWs and Audis, as AtlasM indicated, are pretty UNluxurious for “luxury” cars.
These cars are probably better described as “premium” rather than real luxury.
"MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
03/29/2017 at 15:54, STARS: 1
Here to blow minds: Lincoln MKZ starts at 35,170.
"Manwich - now Keto-Friendly" (manwich)
03/29/2017 at 16:02, STARS: 0
Screw Ruxton’s and their shitty headlights and FWD!!!
Moon Motor Car Company FTW!!!!
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
03/29/2017 at 16:06, STARS: 1
RZEPPA GRUMBLE WHRGARBL
"jariten1781" (jariten1781)
03/29/2017 at 16:35, STARS: 0
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I firmly place the 3 in the luxery category...was just pointing out that price-point != category.
Maybe it’s because I have to listen to marketing weenies every couple months, but to me a category is defined by the demographics that shop it. The 3 is an entry level luxury sedan because it’s going to be cross-shopped by the same folks who purchase 3-series, C-class, IS, ES, G37, A4s along with those looking at top-trim Camrys/Accords as well as the Genesis-Genesis/Azera/Cadenza crew.
It’s also in some other category which isn’t really defined yet. You could put the i3 in there as well and maybe the Volt, but I wouldn’t throw the Leaf or iMEV...those are more just in the electric box. Let’s just call it the technology category for shots and giggles. That’s going to bring in people that would never have looked at the 35k sedan market if it weren’t for Tessa playing there. I think that’s where the consternation comes in. The folks desiring it as a ‘technology car’ are insulted that other people categorize it as a mere luxury car and the people that follow the automotive market see the natural slotting with the entry luxury sedan crowd and huff/puff at people who think it’s something special.
So, TLDR; in my mind, it’s an entry level luxury-technology sedan.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
03/29/2017 at 16:40, STARS: 1
“Gadget wanker” category?
"Manwich - now Keto-Friendly" (manwich)
03/29/2017 at 16:42, STARS: 0
“NOT A FINGAR!!!”
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
"Axial" (axial)
03/29/2017 at 20:51, STARS: 0
I submit that the 3er, A4, and C300 are not really luxury cars...unless you consider an optioned Passat a luxury vehicle or something.
That being said, I think the Model 3 is going to be a piece of shit and that the Bolt seems to be a much nicer vehicle.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
03/29/2017 at 21:36, STARS: 0
Idk, those base model Germans aren’t all that luxurious...fake leather, no good options, not a lot of power. I would argue that a well optioned American car for the same price is more of a “luxury car” than a 320i
"ranwhenparked" (ranwhenparked)
03/29/2017 at 23:29, STARS: 0
Who said that? Tesla is a luxury brand, and the Model 3 is their entrant in the entry-luxury segment. Its sized and priced pretty much exactly like everything else in that segment for a reason.