by "Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo" (akioohtori)
Published 03/27/2017 at 22:02
by "Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo" (akioohtori)
Published 03/27/2017 at 22:02
Tags: Project Dumpster Fire
STARS: 3
Well shit.
Good news and bad news on my project Saab . As I mentioned in my last post , I got the fuel pressure issue solved (?) but still not getting a good start.
After mentioning this to the epic Classic Saab Facebook page, I got a number of suggestions. One was to, of course, check compression. Another was to attempt a start manually manipulating the air plate.
I tried the latter first and was rather alarmed at the result. I couldn’t really get a picture, but basically I was getting fuel vapor in the intake, a feat that I did not think was possible. Ultimately, I decided it was probably the valve guide seals (which I have long suspected are leaky) allowing fuel into the valve cover, through the oil vapor recovery hose, and then back into the intake.
Probably?
Then I went camping. Hence why my remaining time is evaporating at an alarming pace.
After that, I simply tried pulling the OVR hose off and IT STARTED! No idea what stars aligned but it started and ran for several seconds with me hammering on the throttle to keep it alive. Unfortunately whatever stars aligned to allow this to happen decided to bugger off, because after a little tinkering (in hopes of making it start better) I managed to revert to my former state. Undoing my tinkering did restore starting.
Mulling it over, I decided to go ahead and check the compression.
Luckily it was good. The plugs were a little grubby so I cleaned them and briefly set my hand on fire in the process. Woo.
I also managed to cross-thread #1 on re-installation. Go team! I think I got it in correctly, on retry, but it seemed VERY hard to thread regardless, so I’ve ordered a tap to further rui- I mean clean up the threads.
So now I am back where I was, except I have damaged threads on one plug.
Next up.... well I’m not quite sure. I’m going to have to give it a think. I am leaning towards an mix problem, but I have no clear idea how to test that.
"LeftOfTheDial" (leftofthedial)
03/27/2017 at 22:50, STARS: 0
Mix is hard especially if it isn’t running well but in the bike world color tune is very popular
"RacinBob" (racinbob)
03/27/2017 at 22:59, STARS: 2
1st - check the fuel metering air plate for function. I would even suggest pulling the injectors and putting them in a jar but those O rings are probably rock hard and impossible to pull. watching them flow as you pull the plate up and down with the pump jumpered on would tell you something. Especially if it didn’t shut off.......
2nd - Ignition is easy. spark, fuel, compression. it sounds like you have all three so what is the problem? My guess is somehow you are way too rich. Maybe the K series injection plate piston is corroded and it is hanging up. Did you find the plugs wet?
"Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo" (akioohtori)
03/27/2017 at 23:18, STARS: 0
All very good suggestions.
The air plate function seems good, with flow to the injectors increasing proportional to the arm raising. I would say the closing pressure from the plunger seems high, but my fuel pressures are good so I can only assume that it is correct.
I’ve gone through the fuel distributor and found it to be mostly OK. Flow to each injector is about equal and the plunger moves with relative ease.
I do think you might be on to something with it running rich. The plugs were wet when I pulled them and furthermore starting fluid doesn’t seem to do ANYTHING to the running performance.
I’ll try leaning it out as soon as I can fix my spark plug problem.
"RacinBob" (racinbob)
03/28/2017 at 20:55, STARS: 1
Hmmm, I don’t recall the plate being stiff to close. I would think it would just drop. If it doesn’t want to close, you will have problems. We had an ice racer with sticky piston. We had to heat the distributor with a torch to get it to run at below zero.
Here is an interesting article. http://rennlist.com/forums/928-forum/399754-cis-fuel-distributor-rebuilding-trouble-shooting.html
I think there is a good chance your answer is in here. http://mastertechmag.com/pdf/1988/10oct/198810IS_KJetricks2.pdf
"RacinBob" (racinbob)
03/28/2017 at 21:06, STARS: 1
Good string. Just search K Jetronic distributor problem. or flooding. Seems like lots of experience. Problems with a car that has been sitting several years seems like a common theme. Any chance you can swap in a known good distributor?..
http://dmctalk.org/archive/index.php/t-8098.html
http://www.k-jet.org/articles/information/k-jet-debugging-guide/
"RacinBob" (racinbob)
03/28/2017 at 21:10, STARS: 1
Also, As I recall the fuel pressure pushes the distributor piston open. If the engine is off, the plate moves and the piston doesn’t. So, if it is not wanting to close, that is a problem because airflow and fuel pressure is working against it.
I would be very curious to remove the piston and see it’s condition as noted in the Kjetricks article......
"RacinBob" (racinbob)
03/29/2017 at 08:32, STARS: 1
"Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo" (akioohtori)
03/29/2017 at 09:27, STARS: 0
Thank you! I’ll take a look after I’ve had a little more coffee.
I think I misspoke, unfortunately. My understanding of the system is the air plate puts pressure on the plunger but the plunger also puts pressure on the air plate via control pressure. This is what I was speaking of when I said “the pressure from the plunger seems high”. Kinda the opposite problem of sticking, the plate REALLY wants to close.
That said, there has been a lot of work done on the fuel distributor and I am mostly happy with its operation. The only exception to this is the pressure relief valve, sometimes called the pressure control valve. It is new, but suspect... sort of. When I reinstalled it the fit seemed too tight. Again, having no knowledge of correct operation I can’t say for sure, just a feeling.
Next up is an attempt to swap out the warm up regulator as that is essentially the only fuel component that hasn’t been extensively worked on at this point.
"torque" (torque01)
03/30/2017 at 14:50, STARS: 0
I wonder if the distributor is not positioned correctly and therefore the timing is off?
I know from experience (replacing timing belts) that very tiny adjustments to the timing can make a huge difference.
"RacinBob" (racinbob)
04/04/2017 at 19:45, STARS: 0
Yes, possible, Set engine to top dead center and pull distributor cap and see if rotor is pointed at terminal for either cylinder one or three.
The thing is though is that it ran when parked, so I kind of doubt that the timing changed itself. Granted the cam belt could of jumped.... {ull the belt cover and check to see if the marks line up. If they do, and if you have spark and haven’t moved the distributor, then I would think the timing and ignition is fine.
PS, if you don’t have spark, or it is weak, then look at the points. You need to clean them after sitting several years. Also look in the cap, and make sure it isn’t coated with crap.
"torque" (torque01)
04/04/2017 at 20:47, STARS: 0
Yeah, I wasn’t sure if OP had bumped the distributer in his fiddling, always possible. Looking at the latest post he got it running (success!)