by "Steven Lang" (StevenLang)
Published 03/27/2017 at 18:33
by "Steven Lang" (StevenLang)
Published 03/27/2017 at 18:33
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STARS: 1
If the FIAT brand can’t be successfully expanded beyond the 500 model, there is little harm for the parent company to transfer that model to another Italian-flavored brand that will likely serve a far greater level of volume in North America.
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"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
03/27/2017 at 18:37, STARS: 1
Hey, MINI is still around. who knows. Make a whole 500 family?
"jimz" (jimz)
03/27/2017 at 18:38, STARS: 1
Which brand would that be? You’d better not say “Alfa Romeo.”
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
03/27/2017 at 18:39, STARS: 6
Merge the two? What could go wrong with an Italian car made by a British brand that’s owned by a German company?
"Scott" (merl3noir)
03/27/2017 at 18:39, STARS: 0
Well... traditionally... that would be the case.
"Scott" (merl3noir)
03/27/2017 at 18:41, STARS: 0
Considering Fiat does make so many other models, I have wondered why do they only bring the 500? Sure, the rest of their line up probably does not have the appeal to an American market, and it is expensive to find out... but I must say I’m surprised at how well the 500 does... so why wouldn’t they expand it?
"EL_ULY" (uly)
03/27/2017 at 18:43, STARS: 2
Dat Fullback doe
"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
03/27/2017 at 18:44, STARS: 1
Fiat has become a manufacturer with a very narrow lineup in Europe as well. Having said that, they do have the inexpensive Tipo. It’s a bit on the too inexpensive site for Europe, but that might just suit the US market. The Tipo wagon starts at less than $15k (no typo) before tax in Germany and is said to be more than a decent car for the money. I believe it’s a subcompact.
There’s a hatchback version as well and developing markets also get a sedan.
"Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever" (superchan7)
03/27/2017 at 18:44, STARS: 1
I hate how Fiat attempted to build a brand identity by naming everything “500 something.”
The 500L should have been named 600 or Multipla or something.
The 500X should have been named something like 600X 0r 620X.
As it is, the mainstream consumers think Fiat only offers small cars and have no idea that the L and X are entirely different sizes from the 500.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
03/27/2017 at 18:47, STARS: 0
meh, just a Mitsubishi Triton
"CRider" (crider)
03/27/2017 at 18:48, STARS: 0
Well they also have the Miata 124 Spider, which is clearly a volume seller.
"EL_ULY" (uly)
03/27/2017 at 18:53, STARS: 0
chiiiiiiiiiiiiing!
"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
03/27/2017 at 18:54, STARS: 0
If South Carolina wins the #hoops, Trump has to end the Chicken Tax. It’s the law. Bird law.
"EL_ULY" (uly)
03/27/2017 at 18:56, STARS: 3
Gamecocks....
"Manwich - now Keto-Friendly" (manwich)
03/27/2017 at 18:57, STARS: 2
Yeah... the brand sales aren’t looking good:
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/07/fiat-brand-usa-canada-sales-figures.html
I checked what they want for the different flavours of the 500... and I estimated the car to be overpriced by at least $4000 right across the range. In Canada, they want $19,000 (before taxes and fees) for the base model 500. And to me, that car is a $16,000 car AT MOST. And $28,000 for an Abarth 500? That’s a fucking joke. I’d rather have a Fiesta ST for less.
And the 500 has been in production now since 2007 with no major changes and not even the addition of a 4 door hatch.
Either they need to update it OR cut the price OR make A LOT of optional shit standard... starting with the turbo engine. Given that it has been in production this long, the design should be sufficiently amortized where they could cut the price or more features standard.
As for the new 124 Spider... that should be doing better than it is.
But in reality, Mazda is selling 3x as many MX-5s.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2015/10/fiat-124-spider-sales-stats-usa-canada-monthly-yearly.html
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/mazda-mx-5-miata-sales-figures.html
And that suggests to me that it’s a dealer coverage issue and probably a consumer perception issue.
Still... I want the Fiat brand to somehow succeed.
"Steven Lang" (StevenLang)
03/27/2017 at 18:59, STARS: 0
Best... comment...ever.... on Opplock....
"Steven Lang" (StevenLang)
03/27/2017 at 19:00, STARS: 0
Same here. I just don’t see it happening.
"Vítor" (vitorcesar)
03/27/2017 at 19:01, STARS: 0
Europe gets the sedan as well
"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
03/27/2017 at 19:02, STARS: 0
Really? Interesting. Can’t say I’ve seen one yet.
"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
03/27/2017 at 19:11, STARS: 0
Fiat did facelift the 500 though, they just don’t offer the updated version in the US as far as I know.
"Captain of the Enterprise" (justanotherdayinparadise)
03/27/2017 at 19:19, STARS: 3
Time to bring over the Panda!
"AMC/Renauledge" (n2skylark)
03/27/2017 at 19:23, STARS: 0
Fiat already has the Punto in the B-segment and the Tipo is basically just a stretched Punto on a platform shared with the Opel/Vauxhall Corsa. Much like the Marea was just a stretched Bravo/Brava.
So the Tipo would be C-segment in the US, replacing the Dart and competing with the Focus. I don’t know how it would do in US safety tests. But I would guess that a certain US president (and many Mopar fans) would scream bloody murder if FCA dropped the Illinois-made Dart, only to replace it with a Fiat made in Turkey.
Even so, it might not be the worst idea from a marketing standpoint to offer a truly inexpensive compact. I just don’t know how they’d justify the 500 being about as expensive, yet so much smaller.
"Manwich - now Keto-Friendly" (manwich)
03/27/2017 at 19:52, STARS: 0
A facelift isn’t enough to justify the highly optimistic MSRP.
They have to get real and accept that the current pricing isn’t even competitive with what Mini is selling. And the Mini starts at $21K in Canada, but you get a 134HP turbocharged engine as standard equipment and a car that is much newer overall, while the Fiat is still futzing around with a 101hp non-turbo engine in a 2007 design.
They used to have a 135HP turbo 1.4 as a mid range engine in North America and the entry Abarth engine in Europe.
For what they’re charging, they should have made the 135HP turbo standard.
"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
03/27/2017 at 19:57, STARS: 0
135 HP is a silly amount of power in a car like this though, as the base engine that is. A lower price would be more logical.
"FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com" (alphaass)
03/27/2017 at 20:05, STARS: 0
As for the new 124 Spider... that should be doing better than it is.
But in reality, Mazda is selling 3x as many MX-5s.
Every 124/Miata comparison I’ve read basically boiled down to “Fiat took the Miata and somehow made it both worse and more expensive. Buy the Miata.” So unless you really love the 124 styling, the Miata seems to be the one to get. Unfortunate for Fiat, but not really a surprise that it isn’t selling well.
"NJAnon" (NJAnon)
03/27/2017 at 21:19, STARS: 0
They brought the 500 first over to the US. Its kind of hard to defend your brand when you do that over here Mr CEO of Fiat. But even if they had brought the Abarth version first it wouldn’t have helped. Fiat’s site has at least 3 other vehicles they could have brought over before the 500.
Yeah I get it; the 500 is small and costs will be low and you don’t care about how consumers view your 500 Mr.CEO of Fiat, so while the 124 spyder finally came along, people are now viewing your lineup kinda weak. Why not bring that pickup truck or the Tipo? I mean Alfa Romeo at least casted a wide net with its Giulia it brought over (its kind of pricey but not too much, but importantly a wide majority of people are like wow they can make small convertibles but also a normal sized sedan sports car too for normies)
"Axial" (axial)
03/28/2017 at 01:25, STARS: 0
another Italian-flavored brand that will likely serve a far greater level of volume in North America.
What, Alfa? Please. It’s because of Sergei’s misguided desire to bring Alfa back that the FIAT, Chrysler, and Dodge brands are all in the chutes.
"Axial" (axial)
03/28/2017 at 01:26, STARS: 0
Dear god, that’s horrendous.
"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
03/28/2017 at 05:06, STARS: 1
They’d sell about five.
Interestingly, that particular one was sold in Ireland in 2012. It was one of just 272 sold that year. Sales fell to only 65 in 2016.
"Scott" (merl3noir)
03/28/2017 at 06:26, STARS: 0
Maybe you have a different definition of a narrow line up. In Germany I know they sell the Tipo, The 124 Spider, which I forgot they do sell that in the US, so they are starting to expand their model lineup here. The Panda, which I doubt would go over well here. The Punto, which might do alright, but could compete to much with some of the 500 line up. The Doblo, which is probably to funky for most Americans, but then I thought the same thing about the Honda Element. And along the same lines the Qubo, which along with the Tipo, I did not know was in their line up. And then lastly the Fullback, which is a hard call since trucks do well, but most truck owners are a extremely brand loyal and American made loyal, so it would have to be Toyota level of goodness. Plus they probably do not want to compete with Ram.
"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
03/28/2017 at 06:37, STARS: 0
They’ve got some cars, sure, but what they don’t have are:
A normal compact
A normal subcompact that isn’t ancient (Punto)
Something midsize
Crossovers other than the subcompact 500X
MPVs other than the atrocious 500L
My point being: they lack solid representation in the volume segments.
Looking at the Fiat lineup and excluding the work vehicles and niche models, what do they offer that’s viable/competitive? There’s the budget Tipo. You could include the 500 as well due to it being cute. That’s it.
"Manwich - now Keto-Friendly" (manwich)
03/28/2017 at 08:37, STARS: 0
Sergio is looking to raise profit margins. From that perspective, it would make more sense to add $1000 worth of equipment and keep the price high rather than cutting the price by $4000.
The 160hp Abarth does 0-60 in 6.6 seconds... which is a half a second slower than the manual BRZ/FRS/86.
So I don’t think a mere 135hp will be a silly amount of power... at least not for North America.
And apparently there is a a version of the Abarth that makes 200hp.
They need to make a variant of that the Abarth model for North America.
"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
03/28/2017 at 08:56, STARS: 0
We don’t do legacy units like miles in Europe, but when I look at the statistics here 0-100 kmh (62 mph) for the manual 200 hp BRZ is at 7.6 and the current 145 hp Abarth at 7.8, the Abarth 165 at 7.3 and the Abarth 180 at 6.7. Anyway, those times are all fine for Abarths, but for a regular 500 citycar bought by people who think it’s cute and don’t care how it drives it’s utter overkill. It’ll need the bigger brakes, the reinforced engine internals, you name it. That’ll cost money which I doubt the normal Fiat 500 crowd is willing to pay for, especially because they’re not going to use that power any way. They would’ve gotten an Abarth if they did.
You can get the regular 2017 500 with a 60 hp 2-cylinder engine in Europe by the way, plus a 69 hp i4, a 80 hp 2 cylinder turbo and a 105 hp 2 cylinder turbo.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
03/28/2017 at 10:31, STARS: 0
I had wondered about that myself recently.
"Manwich - now Keto-Friendly" (manwich)
03/28/2017 at 10:35, STARS: 0
The difference is that the Fiat brand is marketed like a BMW Mini wannabe in North America... and thus it’s priced accordingly.
The lower output turbo needs to be standard in North America if they want to maintain the current MSRP... not to mention maintaining a bit of a ‘premium small car’ image.
For Europe, it’s different as I believe the Fiat brand isn’t viewed as a premium brand over there.
This reminds me of Peugeot in North America before they pulled out.
They were marketing cars like the 405 as a premium Euro car and the idiots at Peugeot believed that North Americans would pay $3000-$4000 premium just because it was a Peugeot.
In reality, most didn’t.
Most people went for a BMW or Mercedes instead.
Peugeot had their best sales in years when they decided to shut down and put a $4000 discount to sell off the inventory.
FCA needs to decide if the Fiat brand is going to be a premium small car brand in North America or not. If it is, then a turbo engine needs to be standard equipment.
If it’s just going to be a regular small car for the masses, then they can keep it as-is, but then they need to drop the MSRP by at least $4000.
But as I said... Sergio has previously stated he wants to raise profit margins. So from that perspective, going the premium small car route with more equipment standard is the way to go in North America.
"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
03/28/2017 at 11:17, STARS: 1
You do have a point there. If you want to ask for more money you need to offer something in return. Fiat is an utterly mainstream brand in Europe, maybe even a lower tier mainstream manufacturer. Almost as much as Chevy (in Europe) before it was discontinued. The 500 is a slight outlier as it’s a ‘lifestyle’ car; a cute, less practical yet more expensive version of the Fiat Panda. Like VW Beetle versus Golf. But still cheap.
This irked my about the Opel rebadges in the US. Previously the Cadillac Catera and currently the Buick Regal/Verano/Cascada/Encore. Rebadged mainstream Opels that are suddenly offered as luxury vehicles in the US.
I guess a big cultural difference between Europe and the US is that in Europe a ‘premium’ car can still have a low power (but smooth) engine, as power isn’t related to build quality or chassis as long as it’s perceived as adequate by a significant subset of potential buyers. You’d come back at lineup variation caused by custom car ordering (Europe) versus whatever is on the lot (US) combined with the stark difference in the price of gas.
"Manwich - now Keto-Friendly" (manwich)
03/28/2017 at 11:47, STARS: 0
It’s not just a stark difference in the price of fuel.
There’s a huge difference in registration fees/taxes. In Europe, as I understand it, much taxation is based on CO2 emissions.
In North America, aside from a gas guzzler tax at the time of purchase for some vehicles that get really poor fuel economy, the ongoing costs of registering a gas guzzler isn’t usually any higher than a more efficient vehicle.
There are incentives for BEVs and other highly efficient vehicles. But there is no really effective taxation that steers people away from comparatively inefficient vehicles.