by "Orange Exige" (OrangeExige)
Published 03/23/2017 at 21:24
by "Orange Exige" (OrangeExige)
Published 03/23/2017 at 21:24
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First time I’ve ever had to bring my car to the mechanic - wasn’t going to kill myself over corroded hubs...
Anyway, just got a call from the mechanic and he couldn’t get the studs off the old hub. Trying to find the correct size studs online, I realize that (naturally) my Mini didn’t have studs stock - just wheel bolts. And of course replacement studs are $8+ each while bolts are (naturally) $1+ each.
So I’m thinking that I buy 8x studs and 8x bolts. If the bolts are long enough (for the aftermarket wheels I have now), I’ll use them and return the studs. If not, return the bolts.
The question is this: do you think the stock bolts will be long enough and I’ll be able to use them with my aftermarket wheels?
I have no idea how long the studs are or how they compare size-wise to stock bolts... Would most wheels work interchangeably with bolts vs studs or are bolts commonly replaced because they’re not long enough for aftermarket wheels??
"Sovereign, Purveyor of Coupes" (sovereign-automotive)
03/23/2017 at 21:26, STARS: 1
As long as you’re not using spacers you should be fine. Usually people switch to studs for the convenience.
"TheTurbochargedSquirrel" (thatsquirrel)
03/23/2017 at 21:34, STARS: 0
I hate the freaking lug bolts. Getting the wheel back on is so much easier on cars with studs. I have investigated studs for mine but they all seem to have a warning telling you to replace them every 2 years. That statement throws up big red flags for me. I would just get another set of stock bolts.
"Orange Exige" (OrangeExige)
03/23/2017 at 21:43, STARS: 1
This is what I like to hear. Fingers crossed it rings true - thanks!!
I’ve never worked with lug bolts before and granted, I’m the one that switches out my wheels twice a year (+ any other work in between that requires em off) so no doubt they’d be nice, but are they 8x as nice? Idk...
"Orange Exige" (OrangeExige)
03/23/2017 at 21:53, STARS: 0
Is that so...? If they were installed the day before I bought my car (unlikely, obviously), they’d be pushing the two year mark now o_O
I know you have a Mini too - honestly I’ve never had any experience with lug bolts and so I never thought twice that my Mini came with lugnuts.
I can only imagine how annoying it’d be to work with just lug bolts but I’m a cheap masochist I guess and I’m not sure it’s worth the 8x premium...
Although then I’d be running nuts in the front, bolts in the rear... *sigh* Seems like I’m always the loser...
"FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com" (alphaass)
03/23/2017 at 21:56, STARS: 0
TIL Mini’s don’t use lug nuts. Is there any other car for sale in the US right now like this?!
"GUYMANDUDE" (guymandudebro)
03/23/2017 at 22:10, STARS: 1
One of us
BMW parts catalog, use it to look up part numbers.
Good place for parts.
Wheel studs if you don’t know what length bolts you need. You could call ecs and they will help you. Offset is what you will need to know. It will be cast in the back of the wheel (eg. ET45)
Wheel studs are convenient for changing wheels and changing between multiple sizes and offsets.
"TheTurbochargedSquirrel" (thatsquirrel)
03/23/2017 at 22:14, STARS: 0
If you go bolts try to find ones for a 17" wheel car. The 16" and 15" cars have covers over the center of the wheels and the bolts don’t really have a nice finish to them. The ones for the 17" cars are finished and look better but otherwise they are essentially the same.
"Sovereign, Purveyor of Coupes" (sovereign-automotive)
03/23/2017 at 22:28, STARS: 1
I like to take off my wheels for easy cleaning when I clean my car so the convenience of a conversion would be nice, at least on the daily. I’ve looked into stud conversions but as mentioned elsewhere, aftermarket studs make me a bit nervous.
"Orange Exige" (OrangeExige)
03/23/2017 at 22:29, STARS: 0
Trust me - I have my Mini’s page on RealOEM bookmarked on my phone and computer. An amazingly good resource. I don’t know what I’ll do whenever I get another (non-BMW) car and can’t find a similar resource. :)
Unfortunately I don’t know my wheel’s offset and I don’t have them now to check (nor do I know how long the current studs are):/
eEuroparts sells 75mm, 78mm, and 82mm studs... I was planning to ask them what they think about what size to get...
Thanks!
"Orange Exige" (OrangeExige)
03/23/2017 at 22:33, STARS: 0
Hm I wonder if you’re referring to the zinc vs the black ones?
The zinc ones (brass-like color) are $1.24:
https://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/10750/Wheel-Bolt-Zinc-36131126191/
The black ones are a dollar premium ($2.24): https://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/51101/Wheel-Bolt-Black-36136781150F/
The only MINI ones they carry are the black ones.
I figured I’d pay a buck (x8) more for the black ones. I guess if I really wanted I could get covers if I wanted...
"TheTurbochargedSquirrel" (thatsquirrel)
03/23/2017 at 22:49, STARS: 1
The black ones are what come on the cars with exposed lugs. The ones that come on cars with covered lugs like mine are just bare metal with an anticorrosion layer on them which just sucks up all kinds of gunk.
"GUYMANDUDE" (guymandudebro)
03/23/2017 at 22:52, STARS: 1
This is a conundrum.
I’d replace the whole set. Whatever problem you are having with the one you are replacing, will happen to the others.
Middle of the road stud size will probably work and not look too boy racer. Depending on how tucked you want everything to look. It would be the simplest option with the limited info available. Longest studs will work for sure, thats what i have on my car.
You could try posting a pic of tye wheel on here and maybe someone can identify the offset. That will help you get the right lug bolts. Which is tge most cost effective if you are only using one set of wheels or one offset.
"Orange Exige" (OrangeExige)
03/24/2017 at 15:19, STARS: 0
Well the thing is that I was replacing the rear hubs (with pressed bearings) so the old hubs with the studs came off and were replaced with stock, stud-less hubs. If I were replacing the front hubs too I’d certainly convert them all back to bolts but I’m not going to swap out good hubs for new hubs just to get rid of the studs (unless they actually posed a problem - which I don’t think they do - they’re probably just seized).
Longer studs would work (def safer bets than going too short) but then I may also have to get open-ended nuts if they’re TOO long for my current lugnuts - adding an additional expense ( not to mention visual displeasure of excessive studs).
Edit: I thought the nuts were $2.50/each but it’s actually just $2.50/20 so not a big deal at all
Basically, my car complicates things as always... I’ll keep you posted on the results. Thanks for the advice :)
"Orange Exige" (OrangeExige)
03/25/2017 at 09:18, STARS: 0
Alright, as I said, I’d follow up - and this is a good* one...
(*good story, not good for me)
I bought the longest AND shortest studs (JUST IN CASE) when I found out they do easy returns... And even the shortest ones were twice as long as my old ones, making it impossible to use the closed-ended nuts I already had... 0 for 1.
Luckily I considered this potential and also bought open-ended nuts!... That were too wide for my rims’ bolt openings... :/ 0 for 2.
But I also bought the stock lug bolts which were of a proper length! Plus they fit in the rims’ openings!... But no socket was thin enough to fit in the opening with it... 0 for 3 :’(
Sooo yeah that’s my luck. Off to find tuner lug bolts or dramatically shorter studs!
"GUYMANDUDE" (guymandudebro)
03/25/2017 at 10:52, STARS: 1
Bummer.
You certainly beat the odds on that one.
"Orange Exige" (OrangeExige)
03/25/2017 at 11:36, STARS: 0
According to wiki a few other Euro brands:
“Some designs (BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Saab, Volkswagen) use lug bolts instead of nuts, which screw into a tapped (threaded) hole in the wheel’s hub or drum brake or disc .”
Whether or not their new cars or just older did this is a good question - I have no idea.
It seems like a European/German efficiency thing when you think about it... that’s one less part to manufacture up front and sure it’s annoying as heck for people that use them regularly, but no doubt it’s a non-issue at the factory and probably even dealerships where they have “alignment studs” or whatever the are to make replacing wheels easier.
"LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com" (limitedtimeonly)
03/26/2017 at 22:10, STARS: 1
Current gen VW GTI uses lug bolts. And yes, it is a pain to swap wheels, but I’m getting better at it.
"Orange Exige" (OrangeExige)
03/26/2017 at 22:49, STARS: 1
I did actually notice this post! I was close to commenting something about how I saw your shiny clean lug bolts and remind me of the needless issues with my car recently (basically what you see in this thread), but I held myself back because I needed to relax and get my mind off lugbolts and studs for a little bit... XD
I’ll end up using lug bolts in the rears (for now) and you know what? I’m looking forward to the challenge. I’m genuinely curious. (Cue impatience in 3..2..1...)
But in order to use my current winter wheels next fall, I’ll probably get studs again rather than tuner lugbolts.
Also, regarding changing lugbolts... I know (well, now I know) that alignment pins are a thing, but wtf - why are they so expensive?? Like 30 for one or two simple pins - essentially just temporary studs... Can you not go to Home Depot and and not find a single, say M12, long stud to use as an alignment pin? Or even some other piece of metal, even non-threaded, that’s about the size of the threads, just to hold the rim for 5 seconds while you get the bolt ready?
"LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com" (limitedtimeonly)
03/27/2017 at 06:51, STARS: 1
Damn, I was going to look into those alignment pins this week, but that is pricy. I agree, should be a simple hardware store or auto parts store item.
It would be more of a necessity of the car was on a lift, but I found yesterday that using my foot as a lever worked well to get the wheel in place. Still, lining up the holes took practice.
"Orange Exige" (OrangeExige)
03/27/2017 at 08:45, STARS: 1
That’s exactly what the guy at the (European) auto parts place told me the other day when I got the lug bolts: basically they’re really not a big deal (compared to studs) because you just put your foot under the wheel to keep them steady while mounting them on the car.
Without having ever used them (yet), I’m wondering if you can’t just stick a lug bolt in a bottom hole, use one hand to keep that bolt pushed in (with your thumb) and rotate the wheel as needed (until you find the aligned hub hole) and use the other hand on top to hold the wheel steady. Plus you’d use your foot on the bottom for extra steadiness... Is that what you do?
Also I haven’t looked, but if you do check out a hardware store, I’d be curious if you do find a cheaper alternative to designated alignment pins.
"LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com" (limitedtimeonly)
03/27/2017 at 08:56, STARS: 1
What I found was that I needed both hands to get the wheel in place on the hub, so I didn’t have one to spare to use a bolt to find the hole in the hub. Maybe if I was stronger it would have been possible to use one hand to lift the wheel almost in place with the foot steadying it, and get the bolt to line it up, but in fact I think even that wouldn’t work because of the center of the hub sticking out, the wheel really needs to be in the right place, can’t really swing it around one bolt hole.
So, I just oriented the wheel holes to line up with the hub bolt holes, lifted up and put in place, adjusted a bit if needed (couldn’t adjust a lot because the hub would move with the wheel most times), supported with my foot and one hand, and grabbed a bolt to get in place. Often the first bolt wasn’t quite in, but enough to allow the second one to be threaded well, and moved on with the rest.
"Orange Exige" (OrangeExige)
03/27/2017 at 15:23, STARS: 1
Bet you never thought you’d be discussing wheel mounting strategy with somebody else - but hey it’s Oppo, anything goes :D
I’m actually quite intrigued by how different not having studs makes changing wheels. If I haven’t already confirmed it, I will (at least temporarily) run bolts for the rear wheels so I’ll try what you do and see if it’s as I imagined...
"LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com" (limitedtimeonly)
03/29/2017 at 13:31, STARS: 1
I’ve researched the alignment pins (also known as “Tommy Bars” or “wheel hangers” apparently) briefly.
I don’t think the hardware stores are selling bolts without heads, but I may not be searching correctly. Could take a die set and create one myself, but could get the cheap plastic version for under US$8. Or aluminum for under US$16. ECS carries them, and some dealers seem to sell them online for a few pennies cheaper.
I’ll probably get one, since I’m thinking that installing the spare on the side of the road in bad conditions would be a lot better with one of these.
Also, at some point I came across the advice of keeping a set of the ball seat lug bolts in the car when I have aftermarket wheels on in case of spare tire use. Yikes, hadn’t considered that.
"Orange Exige" (OrangeExige)
03/29/2017 at 21:18, STARS: 1
Huh! In my brief search I hadn’t found anything nearly as cheap but you clearly found other search terms to look up which may have helped. Definitely worth it for $8 - probably even the $16. I feel like you could probably get away with just one... no? (I saw some sold in pairs)
As far as your last point, easy solution at least... wouldn’t have thought too much about it though myself. I didn’t even realize recently that there was a different type of lug bolt (seat) until this whole ordeal.
Btw, I was with my mechanic Monday as he mounted my summer wheels (the rears with bolts, front with nuts - don’t judge)... the car was up on the lift, shoulder height and he mounted the rears (with bolts) like a champ - no assistance needed, not even hesitation. Needless to say, I was impressed. I don’t have a reason to pull em off and try to put em back on myself, but I’m motivated now!
"LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com" (limitedtimeonly)
04/22/2017 at 18:28, STARS: 1
Alignment pin in use pictured. $12.88 delivered from ECS. A bit difficult to thread, making me wonder if metal would have been better than plastic.
