by "Pearson Hurst" (phurst)
Published 03/23/2017 at 15:26
by "Pearson Hurst" (phurst)
Published 03/23/2017 at 15:26
No Tags
STARS: 1
Ok, let me lay out the situation, and y’all let me know what you think.
On December 12th of last year I purchased a vehicle from a dealership just over the state line of a neighboring state. I arranged financing ahead of time through my local credit union. Picked up the car, bank FedExed the check the next day, everything is cool.
A few weeks go by and I get an “e-notice” from my bank saying they haven’t received the title yet, and please send it to them, or have the dealership send it to them. Odd, I think, since one doesn’t normally get a title until the vehicle is paid off. I wait a bit longer, dig through my stuff and verify I definitely haven’t received a title. A week later, I get another notice from the bank inquiring about the title. I called the dealership and spoke to their title and tags person who assures me “your DMV is just slow, they should get the title soon.” and relayed this information to my credit union. BY this time I have my registration and license plates, so I know DMV has processed the paperwork from the dealership.
The following week, I get an actual letter from my bank telling me they need the title, or for DMV to notify them that they are the the lien holders who get paid if something happens to the car, and if they don’t get it soon they can either declare my loan uncolateralized and raise my interest rate accordingly, or demand payment in full. I called the bank in a bit of a panic and explain the situation, and that i have spoken and emailed several times with the title and tag person at the dealership and she assures me they should have it any time. The lady at the bank thanked me for calling, and calmed my nerves a bit by telling me that it’s only been 45 days or so since the purchase and they have a 90 day grace period.
A few days later, I get a letter from the DMV copying me on a letter they sent the dealership requesting ownership documentation for my vehicle which DMV says wasn’t provided with the title and registration paperwork the dealership sent in. I emailed the title and tags lady at the dealership yet again asking what’s going on, and she tells me she got the letter from DMV and is taking care of it. A few days after that, I get ANOTHER letter from the bank. This time they too are copying me on a letter to the dealership requesting the title or evidence they are recorded as the lien holders.
The following morning I get an email from the title and tags lady asking ME if I have the title. I tell her of course not, the car is financed, and she needs to figure this shit out ASAP as clearly the bank and DMV are loosing patience. She says she’ll call DMV and get back to me. Later that day she called back saying DMV has put a hold on the title until they get the ownership papers they had requested previously. She claims she sent the requested papers to DMV along with the rest of the paperwork and they just need to find it.
A couple of days pass and I get in touch with her again. She says she has spoken to DMV and they told her to call back in a week to check on it and to follow up with her at the end of the week. I emailed on that Friday and got no response. I emailed on Monday and the lady gets back to me saying she is no longer in title and tags and they have moved that responsibility to one of their other dealerships. She copied the new title and tags person on our email exchange, and I got a call from her about 30 minutes later asking to be caught up on the situation, and promising to get back to me by the end of the day with a status update. Of course, she never bothered to follow up.
At this point, we were a day from the banks 90 day deadline, so I reached out to the GM of the dealership, outlining the situation and asking for his help in getting it resolved. I got a nearly immediate response apologizing for the situation and promising to get it addresses and to keep me in the loop. Naturally, that’s the last I heard from him.
That was Monday, March 13th. I arrived home to yet another letter from the bank, copying me on another letter to the dealership. This one was marked FINAL NOTICE and informed the dealership they had until yesterday, March 22nd to get them the title or a check for the full amount of the loan. As of today, I know the dealership has neither resolved the DMV issue or cut the credit union a check.
So, my question is, what’s going to happen? Is the bank going to jack up my rates? If so, they’ll go from 2.75% to 16.5% and I probably won’t be able to keep up with the payments. I’m sure I could sue the dealership if they do raise may rates, but to what end? A lawsuit won’t lower my interest rate back down. What hapens if the dealership simply doesn’t comply with the bank’s demands? Will the bank sue the dealership? If so, what becomes of my loan? What if the bank wins and forces the dealership to refund them? Will the dealership come after me for the car in that case? The bank isn’t in a position to come after me for the car, since they obviously haven’t been recorded as the lien holders. What is likely to happen in this situation, and what, if anything should I be doing to protect myself and my car? Sorry for the long read guys, I’m just a little panicky and need insight and advice from smarter people than me.
Here, have a beautiful E-Type for your time:
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
03/23/2017 at 15:35, STARS: 4
I would return the car for a full refund to the bank. Dealer done screwed up.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
03/23/2017 at 15:39, STARS: 0
How far a drive away is the dealership?
If it’s not that far I would go there and deal with this in person.
"TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts." (thebloody)
03/23/2017 at 15:39, STARS: 2
Take the car back. At this point you’re the only one getting screwed in this deal and it’s not worth it. Take your business elsewhere.
"Pearson Hurst" (phurst)
03/23/2017 at 15:39, STARS: 0
As of now, the bank doesn’t have any claim to the car, so I don’t thnk that would do any good.
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
03/23/2017 at 15:40, STARS: 0
So the bank has not paid the dealer for the car?
"TysMagic" (twjeffery)
03/23/2017 at 15:42, STARS: 3
Is the bank willing to pull the funds back from the dealership? As in the dealer is now out whatever the amount financed is? I would get confirmation of that from the bank then I’d be calling the GM daily advising him of what’s happening to his money
"Pearson Hurst" (phurst)
03/23/2017 at 15:43, STARS: 3
Yes, the bank has paid the dealer, but the dealer has not recorded the bank as the lien holder on the title, so they have no legal claim to the car. That’s why the bank is freaking out over it. Now, they obviously have paperwork showing they paid the dealership, so in court I’m sure they would be found to be the legal owners, but outside of a court ruling, they have no legal claim until they are recorded as the lien holders on the title.
"jimz" (jimz)
03/23/2017 at 15:44, STARS: 1
talk to an attorney, someone’s jerking you around, and you’re likely the one to be hurt by it. there’s got to be at least one Steve Lehto in your state.
this is a bit foreign to me, since in Michigan the title is issued to the borrower, not the bank; the title lists any “secured parties” (lenders with liens on the collateral) and once you pay off the loan the lender(s) send you a release of lien letter allowing you to transfer the title.
"Pearson Hurst" (phurst)
03/23/2017 at 15:45, STARS: 1
It’s about 3 hours away. Not that I’m not willing to make the drive, but I’m not sure what that might acomplish besides me making a giant scene in the middle of the sales floor. The problem has to be vixed at a Virginia DMV and the dealershi is in Maryland.
"Jcarr" (jcarr)
03/23/2017 at 15:45, STARS: 0
I wouldn’t worry too much. This is obviously not your fault and the bank seems to recognize that. I’m not sure how it’ll get sorted out, but the bank still wants to make money off of your loan and if they raised your rate due to an issue that was obviously out of your control, you’d probably have grounds to take legal action against them, or at the very least it would open the door for bad publicity on their part.
"Pearson Hurst" (phurst)
03/23/2017 at 15:46, STARS: 0
But back to who? The bank can’t take it, as they aren’t the listed lien holders on the title, and I can guarantee the dealership isn’t going to give me a full refund after more than 3 months of ownership.
"Rust and Dust - Oppositelock Forever" (rustanddust)
03/23/2017 at 15:46, STARS: 9
Raise hell to anyone and everyone that’ll listen.
I would’ve had a daily conversation with that GM from the 13th until the situation was resolved, and I’d have made damn sure he knew that call was going to happen every day. Start at 9am, if not returned by noon, place another call. If not returned by 3, place a 3rd call. Every day. Be a giant pain in the ass, that’s what they’re doing to you.
Call the NADA and the state Auto Dealers Association for the state that dealer is in, as well as possibly calling Nissan of North America, if it was purchased from a Nissan flagged lot.
Villify them online, and let that GM know. They lost your title, and their inaction is fucking you over. Explain the situation in online reviews.
Call a news outlet (or all of them) in that dealers area. Getting raked over the coals on the local 6 o’clock news may prompt some action.
And last but not least, paging Steve Lehto...
"E92M3" (E46M3)
03/23/2017 at 15:50, STARS: 2
$100 says someone mailed it to the DMV in the dealership state, not yours. At this point the dealership needs to apply for a lost title replacement, and send it in again.
"Pearson Hurst" (phurst)
03/23/2017 at 15:52, STARS: 0
I’d love to get Steve’s take on this.
"Pearson Hurst" (phurst)
03/23/2017 at 15:53, STARS: 0
Yes, the demand for mayment letter was to the dealership, not to me. I can’t tell if they simply don’t care or are grossly incompitent, or both. I’d imagine a court summons might light a fire under them.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
03/23/2017 at 15:56, STARS: 3
It’s too far, I thought you might live close to the state line to make it not really a hassle.
Making a scene was my point. It seems like they are just brushing you off about the missing title. They got paid, so what does it matter to them at this point? Way easier to just say Bye Felicia to you on the phone/through email.
Maybe threaten them with a complaint with the Maryland Attorney General/Division of Consumer Affairs?
"TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts." (thebloody)
03/23/2017 at 16:01, STARS: 2
Talk to the GM, tell him you’re returning the car. If he doesn’t want to play ball then you’ll need to contact a lawyer, you’re being financially impacted because of their bungling of this situation.
Unless the bank is feeling overly generous and is willing to extend the grace period you don’t have any other choice other than biting the bullet and paying for someone else’s mistake.
"Pearson Hurst" (phurst)
03/23/2017 at 16:04, STARS: 0
Well, one way or another, I’m not paying an inflated rate. If/when I get that notice you better believe I’ll be at the dealership at the crack of dawn.
"Meatcoma" (mastapoof)
03/23/2017 at 16:04, STARS: 2
Time to show up at the dealership until you get something in writing and I wouldn’t leave until you have exactly what you want in writing so that it is binding. Also make sure that the person signing the document actually can promise what it is they are supposed to deliver.
I wouldn’t give two shits where they now handle title/tags, I’d show up at the one I bought it from and make damn sure it’s when customers are present... evenings/weekends are best.
Can always get a picket sign and park just off their property but close enough that all customers can see/read your sign. They will get shit handled a lot faster.
"TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts." (thebloody)
03/23/2017 at 16:06, STARS: 1
I’d say don’t wait for anything, be proactive. IMHO You should call the GM immediately after you’ve spoken to your bank about an extension and you should be doing that today.
"JGrabowMSt" (jgrabowmst)
03/23/2017 at 16:08, STARS: 1
1) See if you can get the bank’s laywer to send out a strongly worded letter to the management of the dealership.
2) see if the bank can file paperwork towards sueing the dealership for the value of the car. Nothing gets things going like a lawsuit.
3) go to the dealership, and demand to sit down with management. Bring all of the bank correspondance with you. Request the dealership either a) pays the difference in interest rate or b) buys the car back in full and takes responsibility for the lost title and vehicle.
In 90 days, I could understand a hiccup, but not a complete loss of paperwork like this. They could sell 100 cars in a day, its their job to keep their shit together. If they cant handle that, sorry, but I wouldnt want to be involved with them. Its unfortunate that youre caught up in this, but it sounds like the bank is very willing to work with you, as they dont want to be any more responsible than you for this mess. Their lawyer will likely be far more capable than someone you could readily afford, especially given the stressful mess youre in.
Best thing I can suggest is to be very clear, as calm as possible and outline your expectations immediately. If its possible, have someone tag along in a second car so the dealer can see how very serious you are about expecting them to take the car back immediately if they cant offer any other acceptable solution.
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
03/23/2017 at 16:15, STARS: 3
This would be a time to talk to an attorney who does consumer law, because the only person here who stands to get hurt is you. Most lawyers will not charge anything for a consultation, and that will give you a much better idea of your options. This strikes me as the kind of situation that is prime for getting cleared up without litigation having to be done. Once folks start getting calls and letters from lawyers, things often have a way of getting cleared up pretty quickly. A few hundred dollars for a billable hour or two for your attorney to make some calls and send some letters may go a long ways toward resolving this.
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
03/23/2017 at 16:15, STARS: 1
i’d stand somewhere between the showroom and financing department and explain my situation loudly to anyone who wants to listen, but certainly direct it to the other customers. I’m not really know for good advice in these situations though.
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
03/23/2017 at 16:19, STARS: 0
So neither you nor the bank has any legal right to title. The Dealer or the person who traded it in still has title. If they don’t give the bank title they should be taking it back. Lawyer up.
"Pearson Hurst" (phurst)
03/23/2017 at 16:20, STARS: 1
I agree. I had thought perhaps the demand for payment from the bank might get them off their asses, but apparently not. I asked Steve Lehto to chime in if he has a minute.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
03/23/2017 at 16:20, STARS: 3
I doubt they lost the title, as getting a new one would be pretty easy. Sounds like they’re playing shenanigans with the check your credit union cut them and they don’t actually have the title. I would try looking up the VIN in the state it was registered in to see if there is a lien on the title. I’m wondering if there was a lien on the car that they never paid off, thus they don’t own it yet. I would tell the GM you’re going to file a complaint with his state’s AG if they don’t send the title over.
"Pearson Hurst" (phurst)
03/23/2017 at 16:21, STARS: 0
I need to find someone with a CarFax account.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
03/23/2017 at 16:25, STARS: 0
Post it up on Oppo, I’m sure someone here has one.
"Trevor Slattery, ACTOR" (anacostiabikecompany)
03/23/2017 at 17:09, STARS: 1
Have you inquired with the legal people on Kinja?
This sounds like a job for Lehto.
"TysMagic" (twjeffery)
03/23/2017 at 17:15, STARS: 0
I’d be going back to that every time you talked to the GM. That money is going away if they don’t fix this. That impacts his paycheck
"Pearson Hurst" (phurst)
03/23/2017 at 17:20, STARS: 0
There are legal people on Kinja? I asked Steve to chime in if he had a minute.
"XJDano" (xjdano)
03/23/2017 at 17:24, STARS: 0
Call his office. He says he takes calls for free on his podcast all the time.
"MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig" (MR2_FTW)
03/23/2017 at 18:08, STARS: 2
It’s dirty and mean, but outing them on Reddit gets results scary fast.
"Pearson Hurst" (phurst)
03/23/2017 at 18:18, STARS: 0
Is there a subreddit for shitty dealerships?
"MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig" (MR2_FTW)
03/23/2017 at 18:23, STARS: 1
No but if you posted in /r/personalfinance or /r/cars it would get around.
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
03/23/2017 at 19:13, STARS: 1
That demand for full payment from the bank is another indicator that it might well be time for a lawyer. In a consumer financial instrument, that demand for full payment is usually a necessary step in the road to litigation. It can mean that the bank considers the note in default, and is going down the road to legal action. It very likely means that this has gone to their legal folks, even if the only target right now is the dealership. When swimming with sharks, you really want the one swimming closest to you to be your own.
In the interest of full disclosure, I worked as paralegal for awhile when I went back to school. One of the things I learned about the civil stuff we did (mostly real estate contracts), was that if more folks had worked with an attorney earlier in the game, they likely would not have ended up in litigation later on.
"peepeesprinkles" (peepeesprinkles)
03/23/2017 at 19:14, STARS: 0
I just got around to my daily Oppo catchup and read this, so have you figured anything out yet?
"Pearson Hurst" (phurst)
03/23/2017 at 19:23, STARS: 1
No, not yet and everything is closed now anyways. I’m going to speak to the bank in the morning to see where we stand and then try yo get in touch with the CEO of the dealerships parent company.
"peepeesprinkles" (peepeesprinkles)
03/23/2017 at 19:25, STARS: 0
Hope everything works out for you and I’m curious to see how everything shakes out. Also I think my reply to your post got Oppo to follow so goodbye greys for me ha.
"MyJeepGetsStuckInTheSnow" (myjeepgetsstuckinthesnow)
03/23/2017 at 20:30, STARS: 1
Have the bank reverse the check. If the dealer can’t show proof of ownership via title then there is a valid reason to dispute them cashing the check. That will get things moving immediately.
"Pearson Hurst" (phurst)
03/23/2017 at 21:08, STARS: 1
The dealership is presumably on the title currently, plus I’m pretty sure you can’t stop payment on a check 3 months after it has been cashed.
"MyJeepGetsStuckInTheSnow" (myjeepgetsstuckinthesnow)
03/24/2017 at 00:30, STARS: 0
You can’t do a stop payment but you can certainly dispute the transaction. Have your bank investigate is as fraud. Paying for a car and not getting a title would certainly be considered fraud in court.
"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
03/24/2017 at 08:13, STARS: 0
by the sounds of it , you’re fucked.
sorry to hear it.