by "SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
Published 03/23/2017 at 09:00
by "SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
Published 03/23/2017 at 09:00
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STARS: 6
Yes, they are still rolling odometers back. The bad guys, that is. I get calls about it more often than you’d think. Modern technology has not helped and modern titles simply add to the confusion.
Remember the old odometers that “rolled over” at 100K? Ah, good times. I actually watched that happen on my 1969 Dodge Charger , probably late in 1979. I remember where it was - Woodward Ave near 8 Mile - but not the precise date.
Back then, shadetree mechanics knew that if they wanted to, they could pop the dash out of a car pretty easily and roll some miles off the clock to raise the car’s value. It was illegal but you never heard of anyone getting caught doing it.
Fast forward to now with the digital readouts and whatnot. You’d think it would be harder for this kind of shenanigans, but No. The good news is that in some ways, it is easier to prove once you figure it out. The various control modules on the cars often keep the information regarding mileage and very few fraudsters worry about that.
Many people also assume that since titles sometimes allow for things like “Exempt” mileage or “Exceeds Mechanical Limits,” it must not be illegal to roll an odometer back on a car where one of those boxes will be checked at sale. Again, No.
I explain it all in this week’s podcast. The audio:
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And the video:
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Follow me on Twitter: @stevelehto
Hear my podcast on iTunes: Lehto’s Law
Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 25 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and Michigan lemon law. He wrote The Lemon Law Bible and Preston Tucker and His Battle to Build the Car of Tomorrow.
This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.
"My X-type is too a real Jaguar" (TomSlick)
03/23/2017 at 09:17, STARS: 2
I have an Odometer roll back story, in college I worked at a regional small rental car chain, we had locations in questionable neighborhoods an would rent a car on a cash deposit, we charged 35 cents a mile on top of the $19.95 a day we charged, we also had the local police detectives number on speed dial for when a car came back with drugs or bullet holes in it.
Anyway, when we got a new car in if it had a cable driven speedo (this was in the early 90s it was a 50/50 chance with the base model Mitsubishi and Hyundais we were renting) We would have to wrap the cable in heat tape, then cover it spray foam otherwise the renters would disconnect it,
"jimz" (jimz)
03/23/2017 at 09:39, STARS: 1
when I upgraded the speedometer in my bike to a combo speedo/tach, I found the way Harley-Davidson tries to prevent that is interesting. The replacement speedometer displays the bike’s current mileage from the BCM/PCM, and after 31 miles of usage the mileage is synchronized, the VIN is written into the speedo’s microcontroller, and it is “married” to the bike forever.
"Urambo Tauro" (urambotauro)
03/23/2017 at 09:41, STARS: 1
I’ve had a couple of cars with mechanical odometers stop working due to broken plastic gears behind the gauge face. I was able to replace those gears, and at that point I was faced with a choice: roll the numbers or leave it alone.
Because I record my car’s mileage at every fill-up, I had a pretty good idea of when the odometer stopped, and I was able to reconstruct what the mileage should read, down to within 5 miles of accuracy. So I went ahead and rolled the numbers forward to reflect the miles traveled since the gears broke.
While rolling the numbers could be considered “tampering”, I decided that it would have been more dishonest to leave it untouched.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
03/23/2017 at 10:09, STARS: 2
Yep, there are still bad dudes rolling back odometers.
"GUYMANDUDE" (guymandudebro)
03/23/2017 at 10:34, STARS: 1
I work at a Wreckers yard. We sell clusters. All our stock numbers are recorded with mileage. We will not guarantee mileage on a cluster. We get customers complaining that the cluster they bought is showing higher mileage than was recorded to the stock number. I suspect these idiots are shopping for lower milage clusters. Good reason to get a used car inspection and have the odometer read off the body module, especially if the mileage is low.
"promoted by the color red" (whenindoubtflatout)
03/23/2017 at 11:26, STARS: 1
I saw a clean CRX on eBay a year or two ago where the seller actually admitted to rolling the odometer back from its original 6-digit figure to zero because it was “fully restored” and it was “basically” a new car at that point.
"ateamfan42" (ateamfan42)
03/23/2017 at 12:29, STARS: 1
I saw a clean CRX on eBay a year or two ago where the seller actually
admitted to rolling the odometer back from its original 6-digit
figure to zero because it was “fully restored” and it was “basically” a
new car at that point.
Amazing what highly illegal things some people will admit to doing in public forums.
"ateamfan42" (ateamfan42)
03/23/2017 at 12:31, STARS: 1
“Oh no, Steve, this doesn’t happen anymore.”
There exists a method for people to cheat the system and profit from that, and other people don’t believe such behavior doesn’t happen? Gosh some folks are so naive. Anytime a way exists for someone to make a quick buck you can bet your butt someone out there is going to try to do it.
"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
03/23/2017 at 13:58, STARS: 3
Many of the people who say it doesn’t happen anymore are used car dealers. And they’re saying it because they want consumers to remain naive.
"Pearson Hurst" (phurst)
03/23/2017 at 16:18, STARS: 0
Hey Steve, any chance I could get your take on my current situation? In need of a sharp mind.
http://oppositelock.kinja.com/dealership-fucked-up-and-i-have-questions-1793576164
"ateamfan42" (ateamfan42)
03/23/2017 at 16:18, STARS: 0
Many of the people who say it doesn’t happen anymore are used car
dealers. And they’re saying it because they want consumers to remain
naive.
Also because some of them are naive themselves. Your message reminded me that that I was once told by an Audi dealer that because the instrument cluster, the ECU and the transmission module all track the mileage, then it is “impossible” to cheat the system and change it. Perhaps such a task is more challenging than the old-school mechanical odometer, but I’m sure a motivated entity with access to the correct manufacturer electronic tools could make it happen.
"SOCdriver" (socdriver)
03/23/2017 at 18:17, STARS: 1
I had this issue recently looking for an MR2, they guy listed it at just over 100K miles, I did a car fax and title check, both reported the cars last mileage at over 220K. The new owner replaced the dash and was trying to pawn it with lower miles for more money. Nice try pal.
"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
03/24/2017 at 08:16, STARS: 0
Depends on what state you are in and what state they are in. Some states have laws which specifically mandate the titling stuff to be forwarded within a certain amount of time and the DMV will slap the dealers if they do it too slowly (the state wants their money!)
But this is all very strange. They sell so many cars you’d think they’d have this figured out by now.
"Wil Haginen" (wilhaginen)
03/28/2017 at 11:14, STARS: 1
Over on reddit.com/r/justrolledintotheshop, I once relayed an experience I had with a very crooked mechanic at a dealership. Naturally I had more than a few dealer mechanics telling me how I was mistaken and/or maybe how I was in the wrong and should have followed up with Ford.