by "AndyG_UK" (ajg1974)
Published 03/22/2017 at 10:24
by "AndyG_UK" (ajg1974)
Published 03/22/2017 at 10:24
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STARS: 2
The ICE car is doomed and I have unwittingly helped it along by encouraging my partner to get the i3!
Last night I used the i3 to do some errands, food shopping etc and was amazed by how utterly effortless it is, the instant, smooth and silent power delivery, the huge control the electric motor gives you when manoeuvring it in to parking spaces in busy car parks. How much fun it is to whiz away from traffic lights, leaving bemused ICE drivers in your wake, it really is the perfect city and suburbs car.
Got in to my Leon this morning to drive to work, backed out on to the road and selected D and........ erm what is this strange delay between me pressing the throttle and the car responding! Why does it make so much noise! Why do I not only have to take my foot off the throttle when approaching a junction but also have to move it the brake pedal as well! Why isn’t every press of the throttle met with an instantaneous change in the speed! Why when it needs refueling will I need to drive to a dirty petrol station and have to fork over £50, after standing for 5 minutes in the cold pumping a smelly, dirty and highly flammable liquid in to it, just plugging it when when I park on my drive is much easier!
These thoughts are all quickly dismissed by myself and fellow petrol heads due to the many, many positives ICE cars have to us, but to the general population who don’t love their cars and just see them as a way of getting from A2B, when they get wind of all this and as the range of BEV’s goes up and the prices come down, they won’t want ICE powered cars, and if they aren’t buying them anymore then the manufacturers aren’t going to keep making them just for the small minority who do still want them.
Sorry, I’ve helped ruin it for all us!
"Honeybunchesofgoats" (honeybunche0fgoats)
03/22/2017 at 10:29, STARS: 0
Out of curiosity, what made your partner get an i3? I ask because in all of 2016, I saw maybe one i3, but I’ve seen about seven different ones since the start of the year, and I can’t figure out why.
"random001" (random001)
03/22/2017 at 10:31, STARS: 0
But the Abarth makes such glorious noises that the i3 cannot...
"fintail" (fintail)
03/22/2017 at 10:33, STARS: 1
Good luck with a 500 mile road trip, and don’t think of what is needed to make/recycle batteries or generate the juice :)
"AndyG_UK" (ajg1974)
03/22/2017 at 10:34, STARS: 1
Mostly for the very reason, he HATES to see himself coming the other way when he’s driving, plus he has wanted an EV for ages (he only does 3 - 4k a year), he loves the futuristic design of the i3 and the stunning interior, plus the way it drives and it is the prefect car for him
"Honeybunchesofgoats" (honeybunche0fgoats)
03/22/2017 at 10:38, STARS: 1
I do love seeing them on the road. My commute is long and boring enough that I’m always happy to see something more interesting than yet another Accord.
"AndyG_UK" (ajg1974)
03/22/2017 at 10:43, STARS: 0
Well we currently also have a Seat Leon with a 1.8tsi engine, so we have that covered until battery tech catches up, plus not many people do 500 miles in their cars, only very small percentage of people do, again not enough people will be demanding it to make it worthwhile building cars with ICE, anyway you can already get an EV that does 345 + miles (Tesla S P100), the range will go up and the price will come down.
There is very little actual lithium in the batteries and the batteries can be re-purposed AND recycled. Also do you think all the metals used to build an ICE and it’s associated parts (catalytic converters and the like) just pop out of thin air, that no pollution is created smelting down the metals and casting them in to engine parts?
We use a green energy supplier, 100% renewable electricity to charge our EV and the percentage of green energy used by everyone is only going to go up.
"AndyG_UK" (ajg1974)
03/22/2017 at 10:47, STARS: 0
I know, I had an Abarth 500 before my Leon and it is THE main thing I miss about it! But most of the worlds population do not care about such things, that is why I felt a bit sick this morning when it dawned on me!
"random001" (random001)
03/22/2017 at 10:48, STARS: 0
So does that mean the first thing we do is kill all the non-enthusiasts? Shakespeare said so...
"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
03/22/2017 at 10:50, STARS: 0
I love the sound no muffler on my Juke, but I test drove an i3 last year at a local auto show. There is something so cool about the whirring sound the of the electric motor under load. If I lived somewhere that had sufficient infrastructure for EV’s I totally rock one. It also helps that the Ontario Gov’t has a $13k incentive on the i3.
"fintail" (fintail)
03/22/2017 at 10:51, STARS: 0
Outside of Britainistan, plenty of people do 500 miles without a thought. Most of the world isn’t on an island. I’ve done almost that much without a bathroom break :) My current DD has an ~800 mile range.
P100 is almost not worth mentioning, out of reach of normal people. When we have better range within reach of average consumers, wake me up. Until then, we have cool city cars often receiving undeserved tax breaks (which by definition result in shortfalls elsewhere). The point is, the battery tech isn’t without environmental pitfalls - and the devotees seem to overlook those issues.
How exactly is that energy generated? There’s no such thing as truly “green” energy or transport, everything has consequences and externalities. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a cool little car and I would take it over a Tesla or Leaf or Prius, but a little devil’s advocate can exist, too. The ICE still has a future ahead of it.
"AndyG_UK" (ajg1974)
03/22/2017 at 10:51, STARS: 0
It’s one solution I guess!!
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
03/22/2017 at 10:52, STARS: 1
Meh, at least I won
’
t have to wait in line at the gas station, I
’
ll keep my dino juice burners. I prefer driving older cars anyway
"random001" (random001)
03/22/2017 at 10:53, STARS: 1
I now have a cunning plan...
"AndyG_UK" (ajg1974)
03/22/2017 at 10:53, STARS: 0
Yeah the world is going to be a much duller place without the sweet sound of a good exhaust!!
Those incentives are insane, but as you say no good without the charging infrastructure already in place, it will come though!
"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
03/22/2017 at 10:58, STARS: 0
It seem cheaper EV’s have good incentives, for a Leaf they’ll give you $14k. That’s almost 1/2 the MSRP for base leaf.
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/vehicles/electric/electric-vehicle-rebate.shtml
"AndyG_UK" (ajg1974)
03/22/2017 at 10:58, STARS: 1
Hmm I’d say you are the exception to the rule, the majority of people are going to use other forms of transport for those long journeys (plane, train).
The average United States driver travels 29 miles per day and is driving a total of 55 minutes per day. (This is an average vehicle speed of 32 mph.)
US Department of Transportation, Bureau of Transportation Statistics
"AndyG_UK" (ajg1974)
03/22/2017 at 11:00, STARS: 0
Good point, and I agree, I never want to not have at least one car with an ICE, but what if we are taxed and legislated off the road, what if all the filling stations close due to lack of custom??
"AndyG_UK" (ajg1974)
03/22/2017 at 11:05, STARS: 0
To be fair they are struggling to give away Nissan Leaf’s (Leaves?) at the moment due to how out of date they now are and everyone knowing a much, MUCH improved and better looking one is coming later this year. Still if all you want is a car for nipping to the shops and picking up your dry cleaning, it is a great deal!
"fintail" (fintail)
03/22/2017 at 11:06, STARS: 0
I don’t do 500 miles or even 50 miles on an average day either. But at least several times a year, I take journeys with legs that greatly exceed the capability of any EV. The rumors of pending ICE death are greatly exaggerated, even if the social engineers try to have their way.
Train? LOL not on this continent, unless you have a lot of free time. 400MM+ people on a huge land mass, fly or drive.
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
03/22/2017 at 11:09, STARS: 1
I think there will be enough people that will drive ICE cars to maintain the network for a while.
If not, Mad max scenario.
If everything goes wrong, I ’ ll drive with schnaps
"AndyG_UK" (ajg1974)
03/22/2017 at 11:30, STARS: 0
I agree it is not the solution for you, but for most people it soon will be, look at the Chevy Bolt, 200+ miles and a price that is within the acceptable range of a lot of car buyers, they are only going to get cheaper, then have longer range and get cheaper again and soon (next 5 -10 years) you will be able to get a family size SUV with a range of 300+ miles for the price of an ICE one and people will choose the EV version and less and less cars will be offered with ICE (like manuals in the US) and then it will become the more expensive option, plus fuel will be expensive and harder to get etc etc.
"FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem" (fuelstratifiedinjection)
03/22/2017 at 11:33, STARS: 1
That’s exactly my point with the generated energy source. There’s no point in buying an EV if the electricity it uses is generated by coal power plants.
"AndyG_UK" (ajg1974)
03/22/2017 at 11:35, STARS: 0
We hope, but will it? 4 people who drove my brothers i3 after he got it have now got or have ordered an EV (us being one of them), it is a similar story when going on EV forums, multiple that and the take up will be more EV’s than ICE being sold before we know it. Once people know someone with one and they drive it and understand them better (most people don’t realise you get a charger installed at home) etc, they want one. Normally to replace the 2nd car used for the school run and shopping but we are only a couple of years away from it being the main car with 300+ miles range. It’s coming!
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
03/22/2017 at 11:45, STARS: 1
Who cares what powers our cars, as long as they’re good cars?
"Rustholes-Are-Weight-Reduction" (rustholes-are-weight-reduction)
03/22/2017 at 11:48, STARS: 0
"fintail" (fintail)
03/22/2017 at 11:56, STARS: 1
Even in my area, where there is a huge amount of hydropower, coal is still a significant source.
I have no real guilt anyway, but all of that alleviates any potential when I drive my zero-emissions (equipment) fintail.
"fintail" (fintail)
03/22/2017 at 12:03, STARS: 0
I agree to some extent - maybe most in denser areas of Yourup or that neighboring island, but for many North Americans, 200 or even 300 miles just doesn’t cut it. I have family members I consider to not be too distant who would be out of range with that. No train or plane service from where they live. For the longer range, I need to see it to believe it, too many empty promises and vaporware out there, along with issues regarding charging infrastructure - and these things won’t receive undeserved tax gifts forever, they will be taxed just as much as ICE, as roads don’t build themselves.
As long as commercial trucks require petroleum, there will be ample room for ICE.
"AndyG_UK" (ajg1974)
03/22/2017 at 12:07, STARS: 1
That is a very good point and I agree to a certain degree, while I do think our new i3 is amazing, much more fun to drive than I thought it would be, the clinical electric motor is a bit soulless though. No climbing though the revs as the engine wails it’s way towards the red line, the power building until another gear is snatched and you start again, dropping down through the gears (either manually or with flappy paddles) and hearing the engine bark through it’s tail pipe etc
"AndyG_UK" (ajg1974)
03/22/2017 at 12:21, STARS: 0
Oh I agree and I also think it will be hard for some people to make the switch even when range is no longer an issue (and already the worlds highways and byways are being kitted out with fast chargers that give you 80% charge in 30 mins, they will only increase and quick charge times will come down), for how good EV’s are already and keep getting better, they are soulless compared to ICE vehicles, the noise of the engine, the fun of working it up and down the gears as you press on, they won’t ever be able to replicate that. But look at all those people who by Camry’s, and Prius’s, CUV’s etc, they don’t care about all that and they are the ones buying all the new cars.
Coal power stations are a problem (and look to be getting worse in the US in the immediate future) but some countries already us little to no coal for their power, even us in the UK (though we still use too many gas powered ones!), but even then EV’s are still better for their local environment, cut down on smog and harmful gases in the city and it’s suburbs.
My whole point was not that I am happy about it but I really think the tipping point will come sooner rather than later and a small handful or real ICE powered enthusiasts are not going to be enough to keep the been counters in the headquarters of the worlds car manufacturers signing off on ICE powered cars. It will be a long time before they are all gone but once VW, Toyota, GM etc start selling less and less ICE cars they will first stop designing new ones and then stop selling the ones they already have.
"fintail" (fintail)
03/22/2017 at 12:49, STARS: 0
I think that range and ample charging infrastructure will be decades off in areas without dense population, seeing as almost none of it exists today, and it is not built for free. An EV can be fun in its own way, but I don’t think fun is the issue here. There’s just not a critical mass yet, and the range is a deal breaker for a lot of people. Even with appliance car buyers, it’s a long way from being there yet.
I don’t know if exporting pollution to someone else’s backyard (a key trait of the modern greenie) is really something positive. It’s something we see now with EV power generation, EV battery production, and EV battery recycling/disposal. ICE vehicles have plenty of their own pollution issues, but somehow aren’t allowed such benefit of the doubt.
Until someone builds a legitimately affordable 500 mile vehicle, creates charging infrastructure - both at home and on the road - for en masse consumption by at least 100MM motorists, and figures out a way to tax these vehicles to compensate for road use, I won’t get too excited. There’s also an issue of the power grid being able to support these vehicles as population grows - I think that was a worry in Germany not long ago. Right now, I firmly believe I could live to a very old age, and still be able to refuel my old gasoline car.
Fun fact, the carbon fiber for your i3 was made about 180 miles from me.