Oppo: What are your philosophies about working on friends cars? 

by "DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
Published 03/20/2017 at 19:33

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STARS: 4

This is more specifically intended for DIYers like me who are competent working on cars they’re familiar with, but aren’t necessarily on unfamiliar models. (Yes I know even pros have makes and models they’re incompetent to work on, but you get my drift?)

Not really sure how to word this into a proper question (More specific and concise example below) But how do you approach the general dilemma of; your friend needs some serious work done on their car. You’ve performed that job on your car and you’ve researched it and are reasonably confident you can do it on theirs. But there’s always the overshadowing uncertainty of A) Running into problems and not being able to complete it in a reasonable time. A risk I’m willing to take with my own car, but less inclined to with someone else’s. B) The possibility of “doing” the job, but messing up something else in the process. C) Not getting the job done at all.

You might say “Well then don’t do it!” But then you’re kind of fucking your buddy with a massive repair bill and there’s a small chance they’ll think you’re just being a selfish lazy prick.

Here’s a more concrete example. The first time I replaced a CV axle it took me 3 days because it just wouldn’t go in all the way and my work schedule got in the way as well. Since then I’ve been able to do it much more expediently, but I wouldn’t do it on someone else’s car since I don’t want to run into that problem on their time.

So what does Oppo think?

Replies (40)

"Nothing" (nothingatalluseful)
03/20/2017 at 19:38, STARS: 1

Project car, car they can do with out? I might offer to help. Daily diver, even with relative confidence, most likely not. Generally, I won’t go above a brake job for most people.

"Decay buys too many beaters" (decay)
03/20/2017 at 19:38, STARS: 2

I don’t do it, not unless they have a genuine interest in learning how to do the task and turning the wrenches themselves.

"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
03/20/2017 at 19:38, STARS: 7

Real, real tough call.

I think it comes down to the person you are helping. If they are pretty understanding, they know the risks involved, and they aren’t naturally accusatory then OK.

If there’s an inkling of “you were the last one to touch it...”, then nope, no thanks.

"yamahog" (yamahog)
03/20/2017 at 19:39, STARS: 3

Santiago calls me over if he needs someone with tiny hands to get at a weird BMW connector, so I’m fine with that, and our friend group generally works on our cars together. Definitely won’t volunteer to be the one to try someone else’s stuck bolt, or take on a whole job for a non-car friend, though.

"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
03/20/2017 at 19:43, STARS: 0

Nice, you have it easy! Most of my friends don’t work on cars at all. So even simple things like brakes or fluids are all on me.

"peepeesprinkles" (peepeesprinkles)
03/20/2017 at 19:46, STARS: 5

Easier routine maintenance things like brakes, oil changes etc I’ll do if asked(but won’t volunteer) for pretty close friends.

Bigger things I would only consider for the best of friends and you better believe they’re going to be there with me getting bloody knuckles because if something gets fucked up it’s gonna be “us” that fucked up and not just me haha

"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
03/20/2017 at 19:49, STARS: 2

Plus the other good thing about routine stuff is you can teach them. So the next time if you don’t have the time they can just borrow the tools. I’m also thinking the older I get the less of a problem this’ll be, since now all my friends are young and broke lol.

"Alfalfa" (alfalfa-romeo)
03/20/2017 at 19:50, STARS: 0

Car friends, yes. Non-car friends, no. I broke that rule once because someone was in a pinch and regretted it, never happening again. But I’ve had plenty of good times wrenching with fellow car nerds on their projects or mine.

"Nick Has an Exocet" (nickallain)
03/20/2017 at 19:51, STARS: 3

Basic maintenance? I will support you and walk you through it for your first or second time. I am not going to be the one getting my arm covered your engine oil. For brakes, I’m happy to help speed up the process by taking a corner after I show you what needs to be done. I am way too busy do things FOR you.  

I don’t go beyond that unless the other person is more technically oriented than I am. Then I’m happy to hold the bolt bucket and provide color commentary / bullshitting.

"The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock" (jukesjukesjukes)
03/20/2017 at 20:00, STARS: 1

I help do basic maintenance (tire changing, oil changing, brake maintenance). Anything more I won’t. if I won’t do it on my car, I won’t do it on other people cars.

"Dave the car guy , still here" (a3dave)
03/20/2017 at 20:03, STARS: 2

Depends on whats expected , difficulty and any payback or compensation. I’ve tackled anything, usually its something like brake jobs for relatives or my good neighbors. Most of my friends do DIY but sometimes are up against a job that requires more than one person to handle the repair with ease. I’ve done timing belts on Audi V6, cam chain tensioners on VW/Audi 1.8t motors, brakes on old Chevy trucks, Dodges etc. Payback might be a gift card, dinner, a trade or a check depending on the job size and if its taking me out of doing something else. I have a good grasp of my skill set and know what I don’t want to get involved doing. If its someone I don’t know well I’m reluctant and cautious to accept a challenge. The most fun stuff I did years ago was helping a friend each year to prep a demolition derby car. He occasionally would give me help when I was over my head in some repair on my own stuff.

Even an engine swap in a barely heated garage in winter isn’t out of the question if its a good friend as long as they buy some burgers, Cokes and beer to help the job go easier. Good music while working is also required.

http://a3dave.kinja.com/garage-repairs-for-friends-1768760832

"Rykilla303" (rykilla303)
03/20/2017 at 20:10, STARS: 2

I do any and all manner of wrenching for friends and family. (big family)
Examples:
-Head gaskets/timing chain/water pump on a co-workers ‘05 sebring last summer
-Water pump on sisters ‘12 travers this fall
-Plugs, wires, coil, cat on other sisters ‘02 ion
-Starter on brothers ‘87 ranger this fall
-head gasket, intake gasket, water pump, timing cover, on other brothers ‘89 f150 (in progress!)

(there’s also a number of small repairs I’m sure i forgot)

I know i fall in the minority, but for the people i know, I’ll be there rain or shine or day or night with wrench in hand. I’ve even got a second vehicle so I gladly loan out my car.

Those problems you mentioned running into... we just talk about those in advance and when they come up.

"Urambo Tauro" (urambotauro)
03/20/2017 at 20:12, STARS: 1

I like to be right up front about what I can and cannot handle. If I have doubts, then instead of saying “no”, I say “whoa, I’m not qualified for that. You gotta take it someone who knows what they’re doing.” I also try to lower their expectations about time. I don’t do 10-minute oil changes or half-hour brake jobs.

I’m in the middle of rebuilding an automatic transmission for a friend of a friend. It’s not one that I’ve done before, and I’ve been doing a lot of research and taking my time to make sure that I can handle this variety. He already got a price from the transmission shop, and that’s his baseline figure. My offer was more affordable, but a big part of that is because I’m taking my dear sweet time with it. It’s definitely not going to be some 4-day turnaround. It’s going to take a few weeks so that I can make sure I do it right the first time.

"Dave the car guy , still here" (a3dave)
03/20/2017 at 20:21, STARS: 0

I have no problems lending tools to people I know will return them. Working around cars and mechanics for years I’ve coached many a repair that I couldn’t be there to do in the flesh. Sharing knowledge has never been a problem if I like you, if I don’t like you I will leave you hanging. That said there aren’t many people who I won’t help in some way.

"Jayvincent" (jayvincent)
03/20/2017 at 20:22, STARS: 1

this thread is good Oppo, keep up the good work

"G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3" (gbodyman)
03/20/2017 at 20:24, STARS: 1

If you’re a really good friend, I’d help out with anything as long as you’re okay with a 40% chance of something getting screwed up.

"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
03/20/2017 at 20:34, STARS: 0

I have used a similar tactic before, when I’m not too eager to do a job. I’ll say I’ll do it, but throw as much doubt about it as I can (within reason.) That way if they’re really desperate they’ll still want me to do it. If they’re just trying to save a buck they’ll decline lol.

"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
03/20/2017 at 20:35, STARS: 4

i am usually the guy among my friends who is asked to work on old stuff.

i make it real clear to my friends that i am not a mechanic, i just work on old junk. when it comes time to do some real heavy swinging on parts, i let them swing the metal.(unless they arent getting it done, and then i have to tell them to get out of the way while i get out the BIG hammer and take a swing.)

i try to not work on new stuff, i dont like having to monkey with sensors, and plugging in scan computers. when thats involved i recomend them off to other friends of mine, that love that stuff.

i just make sure that i tell them that “i will HELP THEM do the work”.....

i get to meet a whole lot of interesting people...........

"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
03/20/2017 at 20:40, STARS: 1

True about new stuff. I remember a friend asked me to change a light bulb one time. I said “Sure no problem.” Did a quick google and found out you have to take the bumper off. Had to call him back and tell him I couldn’t lol.

"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
03/20/2017 at 20:40, STARS: 1

I’ll say I’ll HELP them, but THEY do the work and I’ll pass them tools and what not

EG: when I did the fork swap on my bike, I did all the work. if I was to help a friend, Id tell him: okay, now we un-do this, and then that. hand him tools as needed, help organize, and occasionally help break a bolt loose or something minor

That way, you dont screw him with a repair bill, but he take the responsibility for the work. also, budyy-buddy bonding time

"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
03/20/2017 at 20:46, STARS: 0

i’ve dealt with this. we have an agreement that if anything goes wrong its not my problem. I’m helping/doing this to avoid a trip to the shop and save him money. the other requirement is beers and burgers upon completion. The first job we snapped a bolt but he was at least able to still drive to the shop and that was just a brake job. the second was replacing the struts which required removing and reinstalling coilovers. that was a two day job so two days of beer. He was happy with that as it saved him hundreds. He then hit a wall while parking and soon after his trans went so he sold the car like 2 weeks later after all that work

"Junkrat aka Rick Sanchez: Fury Road Edition" (realasabass)
03/20/2017 at 20:53, STARS: 2

I do not work on peoples cars or computers. Friends/family started taking advantage of my services and my help was being expected. Family members started bringing me their friends computers and expecting me to fix them for free. The pizzas and ramen bowls stopped showing up with the computers. When I need an extra set of hands with my cars, no one was ever available to help me. A few years ago I stopped offering my services, automotive and computer related.

"G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3" (gbodyman)
03/20/2017 at 21:00, STARS: 1

When I’m not feeling it, the quoted chance of fucking it up goes to 60%.

"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
03/20/2017 at 21:04, STARS: 1

heh, yeah, there were some dodges a few years ago that had the battery inside one of the fenders, and to get to it required unbolting the whole inner fender. and those older cadillacs (norhstar) had their starter underneath the intake manifold. i used to have folks asking me left and right to look at cadillacs.

after a while, you dont just volunteer to work on stuff, you just volunteer to “take a look at” things.

you also make sure that they have money to buy parts(THE CORRECT PARTS), and can live without the car for however long you tell them that the job will take, IF YOU DECIDE to take it, and that they are not going to set there and rush you..........good times.......... you also tell them what it is going to cost them for your time.

i have also gotten real good at telling people “thats more work than i want to take on”,and that they should take their car to a PRO........ someone who does that kind of work for a living........ 

"jasmits" (jasmits)
03/20/2017 at 21:12, STARS: 1

That’s good advice. Helping, but making it a challenge between the two of you.

I’m more mechanically inclined than most of my friends but a long, long shot from being a good(or even competent mechanic). Hell, the first oil change on three out of four cars I’ve owned was a multi-hour ordeal.*

*Elaboration if you care, it was never entirely the fault of my incompetence. My 1998 BMW 318ti has a canister-style oil filter like most BMWs. Unfortunately, that specific adaptation(M44) of the basic 4-banger design they used for many years had its own specific size and number of flutes, so no oil cap wrench I could find anywhere could get it to budge. It took going down to our local indie German repair shop and asking where he buys his tools. This turned out to be a traveling sales truck, specializing in BMWs so I asked him to call me next time the salesman was going to be coming and to please change my damn oil.

My 1991 Toyota 4Runner wasn’t quite as bad, it just has it in an incredibly inaccessible spot on one of the sides of the ‘V’ where a normal oil filter wrench could not fit. I bought a tiny little one, which gets the job done with a lot of body english thanks to lack of leverage.

And, finally my 1991 Alfa Romeo 164. Transverse V6. They put it in the middle of the back V of the block. Can’t reach or see it from the bottom thanks to the subframe, can’t reach or see it from the top because of how the engine is positioned. Nope, you have to feel around in the dark in a tiny little area and then spill oil all over the place when you finally get it off. Probably was fine in longitudinal applications like the base Busso V6 design was made for, but not as a transverse.

"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
03/20/2017 at 21:13, STARS: 1

But then you’re kind of fucking your buddy with a massive repair bill and there’s a small chance they’ll think you’re just being a selfish lazy prick.

This is wrong. I am not responsible for the state of my friend’s vehicle nor was I the cause of any of the fucking up until this point of his needing repairs. Vehicles needing repairs is a risk we all take as vehicle owners. How my friend is not responsible for his own vehicle... is beyond me.

Also, a little bit of potential hypocrisy there. I would think calling on my friend because I’m too cheap to pay for repairs could also be called lazy, selfish, even prickish to assume that he’s my on-call mechanic. Potentially. My two cents.

______________________________________

To answer your question in a general sense: I have helped, many times, my best friend with car crap. He is not mechanically savvy. He is like my brother so I will always help. I’ve driven him to several junkyards, gotten him windows in my spare time, done his brakes, etc., etc...

For less extensive work, I will change any of my other friend’s — and my wife’s friend’s — oil, and if easy enough, spark plugs

I will work for energy drinks, pizza, and beer.

However, no matter the person, I always preface my work, “I’m helping you save money, but I’m not mechanic. If this blows up tomorrow, not my problem. Take it to a mechanic if you can’t take this risk.” Guess what everyone says, “No problem!”

As for more extensive work: NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. The most “advanced” thing I’ve ever done on a car is a timing belt. On my own Tercel. I am not tearing apart the front of someone else’s car.

"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
03/20/2017 at 21:30, STARS: 0

I am happy to help a friend work on their car, but I am nobody’s mechanic.

"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
03/20/2017 at 21:52, STARS: 1

I get asked a lot at work, “Hey my car is doing whatever what do you think?” which is a much better question for someone to ask in the first place. I’ve offered help then, a few times, but mostly I get to play Car Talk. I tell them what I think it is, ask follow-up questions, give them things to try, and then I recommend a competent, honest independent mechanic. “Tell them I sent you” and the shops I use really appreciate that.

At my previous job, it was practically a rule that we all helped each other work on stuff after hours, whether anyone asked or not. If I needed help on something specific, yeah I’d ask or vice versa, something that really required two people. That’s what I miss the most about that job, hands down.

"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
03/20/2017 at 21:52, STARS: 1

i love those real tight space, and special tool fiascos “looks like youre gonna have to buy a new tool bro”...... its amazing how much easier some of those jobs are with either a lift, or a pit, just for the leverage.

i usually let my friends do most of the heavy lifting, im not as young as i used to be, or let them get the initial grime off of parts that need to be cleaned off, before i finish cleaning things off right.

i had a real good example here about 2 weeks ago. one of my younger friends called me up “hey can i get you to help me out?” he was going to be working on his boss’s truck, an old chevy (63) with an inline. so i showed up for support. “the distributor wasnt spinning” was the official lead in. so we took it apart. distributor shaft was fine, gear was fine, cam gear good. so with light shining,into the engine we spun it, cam wasnt turning. it had managed to eat the nylon cam gear in the gear to gear set up. spent the rest of the night taking the engine apart like a two dollar watch. several days later when all the parts had been tracked down, we were putting it back together. none of these other kids had ever gotten to adjust the valves on one of these old inline. they had this huge wide eyed look as i went and got my pipe wrench. “you just set it on tdc like SO. i moved the crank there with the pipe wrench. and then you take the slack out ALL of the valves, and then you move the crank 1/3 of a turn, like SO for 2 full turns of the crank” NOTHING TO IT, heh... they just loved it when i was finding where to put number one on the distributor. “you just shove your finger down the spark plug hole, and spin the motor over until it blows past your finger, fine, I’LL DO IT, here hold my drink”. it was a great feeling when it fired RIGHT up though...... “see, nothing to it”........

its just sad when you get to be the guy who finds cracks in the cylinder walls. “yeah, its done”.............

"DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time" (dc3ls-)
03/20/2017 at 21:59, STARS: 1

Those are the best. Most of the fun of working on cars, IMO, without any of the physical work!

"yamahog" (yamahog)
03/20/2017 at 22:13, STARS: 0

Jeez, I hope you’re at least getting some beverages out of that arrangement!

"jasmits" (jasmits)
03/20/2017 at 23:23, STARS: 1

Ugh a lift would be amazing. Although it wouldn’t really help much with any of those particular problems, still wouldn’t be able to find the BMW tool, still wouldn’t be able to see and barely able to reach the Alfa’s filter and I have lots of room to crawl around under the 4Runner, even without jacking it up(I’m still in my early 20s).

I love the “shove your finger down the spark plug hole” part hahaha. I want to own/work on something that old one day, it sounds fun as long as its not my only car and I’m not dealing with it every day.

"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
03/20/2017 at 23:57, STARS: 0

its a whole lot of fun crawling around under cars,........ until that one day when you have wedged yourself under, JUST so, and you go to reach some awkward bolt that you can only just touch, and you pull on it with all got....... and then you feel something in in the middle of your back tighten up kinda funny. makes crawling back out a whole lot more interesting.

but i still really love crawling around working under cars, deciding if i AM or not going to answer whoever it is that is calling out looking for me. hide and seek, pro-level.

i have a few friends with lifts, and while it is a whole lot nicer for working on certain junk, like you say, it just doesnt help with the rest of the problems.......

old stuff is and adventure, ANYWHERE that you go. SOMETIMES you even get all the way there. but you meet some of the nicest, most amazing people along the way.......

"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
03/21/2017 at 08:25, STARS: 2

I have a few rules. First, never tackle anything that you dont think you will take more than one day, on a daily driver. Second, I require whoever to buy quality parts, and all the correct parts to do the job correctly. No chinese ebay bullshit. Third, they have to be there with me for consent, or to grab wrenches. If i feel like a bolt is going to break, i want to ask them if they want to risk it, or take it to a shop that makes it their problem.

"jasmits" (jasmits)
03/21/2017 at 10:43, STARS: 1

Yeah I can see that hahaha.

I mean my current daily(the 4Runner) is older than I am, but it is a Toyota truck so it’s been pretty much drama-free 

"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
03/21/2017 at 11:36, STARS: 0

that is one of THE benchmarks that i use when buying my own projects, or calling cars old....... is it older than i am? those old toyotas will put up with a whole lot before they walk out on you. keep after the maintenance and they stay drama free. that, and always keep one eye on the gauges,and an ear open for new,different sounds to see if the truck is trying to kill itself.. .......

whenever i go places with folks i always tell them “hold on, i want to make sure i have my(jacket/gloves/comfortable shoes/drink/sandwich/hat) so i can be comfortable while i am walking”, because a car is always reliable, until it isnt. i live out in the sticks(middle of nowhere) and if the truck puts me afoot, i could be walking 1mile, or 5(provided i dont hop a fence and ask to use a phone). but like i said old cars are ALWAYS an adventure........

"jasmits" (jasmits)
03/21/2017 at 11:52, STARS: 1

Yeah, I’m always paying attention to it haha.

My friends think it’s hilarious that every so often I’ll cut the music and tell them to shut up because I thought I heard a noise or ask if anyone else smells coolant/oil/etc, pause, and then ask if anyone else knows what coolant smells like.

Honestly the only time it’s let me down thus far(only 8 months/maybe 7 or 8k miles) was when the bracket holding the clutch pedal decided to become un-welded from the firewall, making the clutch totally useless. Luckily I was just a few hundred yards from a lot where I knew could leave it for a bit so I started it in first(older Toyota 4x4s have a clutch start override button for off-road situations) and drove it there in first.

"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
03/21/2017 at 12:13, STARS: 0

THAT IS HOW you keep old stuff alive. that always listening for a new sound, smell, smoke, and have an eye on gauges.

i find it odd riding with my friends that have loud music going. i used to wonder, when tearing down engines, and it had a trashed crank or piston/ valve, and it looked like it got run that way for miles on end “how did they not hear, or notice”. telling your friends “shut it off, theres no drums in this part of the song”.

i also make a mental note of the best/worst places to pull off the road should the truck suddenly quit. its also fun to “practice” coasting the truck as far as it will roll, you know just to see how far it will get.

starting, and shifting a truck without a clutch, those are life skills you are learning there.........

"jasmits" (jasmits)
03/21/2017 at 12:21, STARS: 1

Didn’t actually need to shift haha, it was around my college campus and very close. And the clutch start defeat button makes it too easy. It’s really mostly designed to be used in low range but I was facing downhill and it started fine in first.

I do play music in the car but I make sure to drive it with it off pretty often to listen

"Die-Trying" (die-trying)
03/21/2017 at 12:44, STARS: 0

yeah, its not too hard to learn, mostly just practice. the clutch arm in my truck (old reliable) gave it up in town a couple of months ago, and i have a friend in town with a welder. so when it gave it up, i pulled into a parking lot to figure out the problem. picked up all the parts that were just hanging there, and plan the shortest drive over. put it in 1st, start, then wind it up, take foot off the gas and skip into the next gear, wind it,take foot off, and skip into gear, not much to it. and when stopping, you start braking, and when the rpms start getting low, you just bump the throttle, and pull the truck out of gear, and start pushing the shifter into the next lower gear. and since it wont go, you give it enough gas until the rpms are close and it will fall into the gear. and when you need to stop you start downshifting ahead of time, and just kill it in low gear. 5 miles of traffic later i got to his house and we mended it right up.

good life skills. where all my other friends are packing it in and calling for a tow, “nah, be alright, i got this”.........

old reliable.......