by "BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
Published 03/15/2017 at 20:16
by "BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
Published 03/15/2017 at 20:16
No Tags
STARS: 4
When customers shop for luxury cars like they’re shopping for a Toyota. I can’t tell you how many customers I have that only want to grind the price down to the lowest possible value, then complain that they didn’t get a “luxury experience”. No shit Sherlock! You came in like a wounded animal and called me every derogatory name under the sun. You wouldn’t let me give you a luxury experience!
And don’t even get me started on customers come to our dealership for a premium experience on the test drive, then go home and price shop the shit out of us online. I have no well wishes for those customers.
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
03/15/2017 at 20:31, STARS: 8
well, I mean, isnt that what we tell everyone to do? see what the local guy can do, and if you find a better deal, see if he can match it?
that just seems like like regular smart car shopping to me, regardless if its a 20K yota or a 100K merc/BMW, audi, whatever
"JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!" (jqj213)
03/15/2017 at 20:37, STARS: 13
So you want me to get fucked over and take the first offer you give me?
Yeah. No. I don’t think a single person on this blog agrees with that.
I understand you’re a dealer, but we are the consumer. And it’s basic economics that we will shoot for the lowest price possible.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
03/15/2017 at 20:38, STARS: 6
“Luxury experience”. I rolled up and bought my wife’s BMW in a straight piped, cammed, and lowered ‘66 GMC leaking oil in their lot. This was at one of the largest M dealers in the country with a Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, and AM dealership in the same lot. All the rich assholes looked on in horror. The salesman I buy from there thought it was awesome. I’ve thought about bringing the truck there for an oil change just for shits and giggles.
"Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire" (arch-duke-maxyenko)
03/15/2017 at 20:43, STARS: 9
http://oppositelock.kinja.com/you-know-why-i-love-the-car-business-1787964881
"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
03/15/2017 at 20:45, STARS: 0
Yep. And I keep going to work. So I guess I’ve got it.
"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
03/15/2017 at 20:46, STARS: 0
Then Dont complain you get the worst experience possible. Because you get what you pay for.
"JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!" (jqj213)
03/15/2017 at 20:48, STARS: 7
If that’s the case I would definitely take my business elsewhere.
It’s your job. You should be used to it.
I understand it’s annoying, but it’s how the business works.
If your skin is that thin that you’ll give shit service, I’m surprised you’re still selling luxury cars.
"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
03/15/2017 at 20:48, STARS: 0
Did you treat him like shit and nickle and dime him? Because it sounds like you got a luxury experience from a real salesman.
"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
03/15/2017 at 20:50, STARS: 0
I buy where I’m treated the best. There’s a difference between value and price.
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
03/15/2017 at 20:50, STARS: 8
....thats not how this works. thats not how any of this works.
you want to be a premium dealer, you deliver a premium service, regardless of who it is. you smile and say yes sir, we will try to do it, no sir, I’m afraid we cant. sure, bitch to your co-workers after, but to the customer, its always a smile and friendliness (and yes, I have worked retail before, i know exactly what its like)
THATS what makes a good dealer. other wise you are just another buy here pay here douche with more expensive inventory.
"Steve in Manhattan" (blogenfreude01)
03/15/2017 at 20:52, STARS: 1
I am of two minds about this - when I bought my ‘87 300D I got a great price, but I also developed a relationship with the dealer. ($42,570 list, $34,800 after trade in (2 grand)). Every service was done there, only I changed my own oil. Today, if I bought luxury, I’d go CPO, pay what they want, and try to negotiate a longer warranty.
If I’m looking to bargain, I’d go CarMax or private owner, 2 or so years old, and insist on a PPI. But that’s me.
"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
03/15/2017 at 20:56, STARS: 0
I don’t give shit service. Where did I say that? I always give great service. As one of the people that can’t bring myself to kick customers in the teeth, even while they’re doing the same to me, I guess I just don’t understand their perspective.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
03/15/2017 at 20:57, STARS: 5
Your ideas ideas are intriguing to me, and I’d like to subscribe to your newsletter.
"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
03/15/2017 at 20:58, STARS: 3
I’m not talking about me providing the service. I can’t even tell you how many customers tell me they wish they’d bought from me but the other guy “gave a better deal” then treated them like shit.
I know you guys hate salesman, but to jump on me and misconstrue what I’m saying is like super shitty low.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
03/15/2017 at 20:58, STARS: 1
I don’t treat any fellow workers like shit even if they might be having a bad day. He’s a solid dude. I just tell him what I want to pay and he lets me know if he can make it happen. Both times I bought from him we had an agreed upon price before I even showed up at the dealer.
Good luck and hang in there with the shitty customers.
"Berang" (berang)
03/15/2017 at 20:59, STARS: 0
You just need the right attitude.
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"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
03/15/2017 at 21:00, STARS: 8
Shithead Weekly, brought to you by Skychismo.
"Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire" (arch-duke-maxyenko)
03/15/2017 at 21:01, STARS: 7
If you had thick skin then this post would have never been made.
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
03/15/2017 at 21:07, STARS: 4
How much will you pay for the ‘luxury’ experience? And what exactly does that entail?
A few hundred bucks can pay for a lot of beer with real friends, people are buying a car, not a relationship.
"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
03/15/2017 at 21:10, STARS: 1
People with thick skin don’t need to vent? I call bullshit.
"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
03/15/2017 at 21:12, STARS: 0
With a luxury car there is a relationship with the salesman. My customers are busy people and I take the burden off of their shoulders whenever they need something. I’ve been my own freaking service concierge for good customers before. Let me see one of those bottom dollar Joes do that for you.
"Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire" (arch-duke-maxyenko)
03/15/2017 at 21:17, STARS: 4
Correct, shrugging it off instead of whining about it online is an important trait of thick skin
"Rico" (ricorich)
03/15/2017 at 21:21, STARS: 1
Definitely understand where you’re coming from. The best deal is the deal that works out for everyone.
"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
03/15/2017 at 21:23, STARS: 1
I get what you’re saying, I’ve been there. They aren’t just looking for a good deal, that can be done with a smart phone. No, they’re looking for confirmation of their biases.
They walk in thinking that the only way they’re going to feel good at the end of this transaction is to be on the attack from the beginning. In their mind, that’s how they became “successful” enough to buy a BMW, failing to realize that there’s a difference between being a good negotiator and being an ass.
Take solace in the fact that they are infinitely more miserable than you because they’re going their whole life acting like the world is out to get them.
Source: I was a banker and an insurance agent. You won’t believe how hard it is to convince someone that you can save them money on their mortgage or insurance.
"Land_Yacht_225" (nadenator)
03/15/2017 at 21:24, STARS: 1
That’s why I’m trying to get a gig selling Toyotas. The uneducated masses come and pay whatever you ask for whatever consumer reports told them to buy because “I don’t like driving but a a car is a necessary evil and it needs to be as safe and reliable as possible and isn’t it Toyotathon?” Toyota or Carmax. Same gig, differnet company. That’t the problem with luxury shoppers compared to “appliance” shoppers. You have to figure 50% of the market is combative, and 50% is conflict avoidant. Guess which group goes with which product?
"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
03/15/2017 at 21:31, STARS: 0
I still call bullshit. Every time you have a negative opinion, it isn’t whining.
"JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!" (jqj213)
03/15/2017 at 21:32, STARS: 1
I guess worst experience possible doesnt equal shit service???
I’m a server in a retirement and tourist town. I deal with assholes on a daily basis, so I understand your grievances. But it’s part of the job so you suck it up and always put your best foot forward.
"Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire" (arch-duke-maxyenko)
03/15/2017 at 21:33, STARS: 2
But this post is whining.
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
03/15/2017 at 21:35, STARS: 0
Not all luxury buyers place any value in that. I’d hope that as a busy person that regular service is a simple one call affair. Hell, it is for lowly Chevrolet and Toyota dealers at least.
Owning a luxury car shouldn’t be a burden anyways, I figured that was the whole point.
"RallyWrench" (rndlitebmw)
03/15/2017 at 21:35, STARS: 5
Can I write a guest column? The working title is “ I Didn’t Build It, Buy It, Or Break It: An In-Depth Look At The Life Of An Independent European Shop Service Advisor ”. Alternate title: “ The Messenger Always Gets Shot ”.
"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
03/15/2017 at 21:36, STARS: 0
Customers don’t see that though. I’ll come 4K off the car to start with to give them a great deal without having to negotiate. Then they say they want 8k off. Then act like they’re “meeting me in the middle” at 6k off. It’s craziness.
"comes over to help work on your car and only drinks beer" (00cyclonefan)
03/15/2017 at 21:37, STARS: 0
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I can’t speak for everyone else, and I know it feels like everyone posting hates salesmen, but I don’t hate salesmen...I hate a lot of car dealers I’ve dealt with, and unfortunately, their salespeople are a lot of times the poor saps who are merely paid to deal with it. When it’s a well known fact that what I know and how well armed with knowledge of how the game works can make thousands of dollars difference in what I pay for the same product on the same day, you can bet your behind I’m going to be on my game. Now, to some extent, how I’m treated will impact how I treat them...I’m never demeaning or condescending, but I will have a ‘not fucking around’ attitude. For examples of how I’m treated matters on how I act:
Scenario 1: Buying new a 2005 Altima. Became clear that the local dealer used a strategy of hiring very dumb sales people whose job it was to play the first few rounds of back-and-forth before passing them off to the manager. Like...dude put the Nissan e-mail in front of me showing what the current Nissan program incentives were...including dealer cash...he also couldn’t tell me about the options or specs. The kicker was when he used the term “Jew down” for negotiating. Not Jewish, but offensive is offensive. The only reason I didn’t walk is that they had exactly what I wanted and no one else close did. They got zero respect from me and complete hardball, and I’ll never step foot in there again.
Scenario 2: Looking at new 2011 Sienna. Don’t remember the circumstances, but for some reason there was a used car bubble and a new car bust, so new was cheap, and used were inflated value (relatively). Knew it wouldn’t last, but thought I could take advantage of it. Went to local dealer who lied to me about values using an old NADA book, did the ‘can’t find your keys’ trick, etc. Got pretty quickly to ‘their best deal’ and walked because it wasn’t giving me the opportunity and I didn’t need to buy, only to have them call me back inside for their ‘no really, this is really our new best deal’. Left. Called a dealer a little ways away, and got “yeah, I know that’s what the market is paying right now, but I think it’s a bubble, and I’m not willing to do the deal because I think it’s gonna pop”. When I finally bought a few months later (last 2011 on their lot, happened to be everything I wanted, except wrong color...I compromised), that guy got a call and he got treated alot more pleasant than the other arsewagons.
So...I know you’re feeling beat on, and I feel for you because for the most part, you’re just the guy who gets paid to just deal with it and move product regardless, but when you work in an industry that so often is DGAF openly shady, and being a dick may protect myself...sorry, you’re going to get it from me and your boss.
"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
03/15/2017 at 21:38, STARS: 1
My dad sold insurance for 30 years. I don’t know mortgage, but I’ve heard the insurance horror stories. Luckily it was a small town and he was able to generate enough positive word of mouth that he wasn’t kicked in the teeth EVERY day.
"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
03/15/2017 at 21:40, STARS: 0
I never said I was providing the worst experience possible/shit service. But if someone wants to give up my great service over a couple hundred bucks that breaks down to less than $15/month, then they can go to the other guy.
"E90M3" (e90m3)
03/15/2017 at 21:41, STARS: 3
then go home and price shop the shit out of us online.
Buying a car should be mostly about numbers, it shouldn’t be much other than that. Treating me nice isn’t worth 5k. If you have your cars at fair market value, then they shouldn’t be having to price shop online. I just bought a car and originally it was way over priced and I told them that. They were like we’re losing money, I told them that their problem not mine. I would be willing to spend a little more at a place I got treated right, but not a whole lot more.
I will say that I went car shopping with a fraternity brother about a month ago and one of the reasons he got a Lexus was the Ford dealer didn’t treat him very well.
"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
03/15/2017 at 21:41, STARS: 1
Excep that it’s not. It’s venting. But please, keep on with the hate-boner. It obviously stays up enough for you to quickly remember my posts. Glad to know I got a fan ;)
"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
03/15/2017 at 21:43, STARS: 0
If you don’t know the difference, that’s okay. If I hadn’t been on the other side I wouldn’t know the difference either.
"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
03/15/2017 at 21:48, STARS: 0
I’m not saying we’re 5k off (on some of my cars, that’s the difference between sticker and a net/net deal). But we lose deals for $500 more often than we should. And it’s not even that we didn’t put through an aggressive offer. It’s just that the customer made an excuse to leave, and then called another dealer who offered to beat it by that. Then the customer automatically assumes that we were holding out on them.
"E90M3" (e90m3)
03/15/2017 at 21:57, STARS: 0
$500 on a 50k car isn’t that big of a deal. I see what you mean now. However, as a buyer you still want the best deal you can get. If that was me, I’d get a quote from two dealers and be like what can you do for me. I like rare BWMs so if I was buying a new one, it’d be a custom order, so this isn’t how I’d buy a car.
I just bought an E92 328i M-sport and the dealer didn’t want to make a counter offer so “I couldn’t go around and price shop”. That almost pissed me off enough where I was like you know what, good luck selling this car. It takes an enthusiast to buy it and it’s been on sale for 3 months and I’m the only person interested in it. It doesn’t matter how much you need out of the car, it’s way above market price. I didn’t tell them to GTFAC because I couldn’t find another manual M-Sport 328i anywhere near me.
"Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire" (arch-duke-maxyenko)
03/15/2017 at 22:01, STARS: 3
As a mod, it’s my duty to remember people’s outlandish claims only to watch them bask in the glow of glorious backfire. But do remember the burn lotion.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
03/15/2017 at 22:03, STARS: 1
Yes, and as EIC I’m gonna change that title to “You bought a European car, not a Japanese one. Fuck you, pay me.”
"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
03/15/2017 at 22:07, STARS: 0
You wouldn’t believe how many people do just that though. They get a price from one dealer specifically to go to another dealer. Once that dealer caves then they go back to the original dealer to re-work them with the second offer. They’ll do this a few times until you’re losing money or you pull the ripcord.
It’s a real nasty thing to do, and happens a ridiculous amount.
"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
03/15/2017 at 22:08, STARS: 0
Right now it looks like you’re the one busy with the lotion. But only to prevent a friction burn.
"Your boy, BJR" (jerseyshoreben)
03/15/2017 at 22:12, STARS: 0
Fucking savage.
"E90M3" (e90m3)
03/15/2017 at 22:21, STARS: 1
I understand it’s a business, but I still want the best deal I can get. I also don’t want to haggle a lot, I would rather just be like this is the best we can do, take it or leave it.
I basically told this dealer that this car is so unique I can’t price shop. This is literally the only car with these options on sale, so I need a counter offer. After a week or two I was like basically you need to start making counter offers or I’m not interested. It was priced way above market value, so it wasn’t like I was just trying to get money off the car, I was trying to get it for a fair price. Even then I might have paid a little too much for it; however, I’m not going to find another E92 328i M-Sport with a 6MT and 40k miles on it.
"That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms" (thatbastardkurtis5)
03/15/2017 at 22:22, STARS: 3
One time I had a customer that came in three separate times, I spent hours with them, treated him like a king...and he bought the car at the competing Ford dealer because of $3 a month on a 24 month lease. Literally $72 total, and this asshole went somewhere else. Even wrote me a letter about how much he appreciated my hard work. And that’s why I don’t sell cars anymore, because gratitude and $7 will get you a small coffee at Starbucks.
"DanZman" (DanielHarpel)
03/15/2017 at 22:26, STARS: 1
That is the smart thing to do. It’s the way that I have bought the last 3 vehicles.
"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
03/15/2017 at 22:30, STARS: 0
That is unbelievably shitty. I have found that Ford customers are some of the worst about price shopping.
"Spasoje" (Spasoje)
03/16/2017 at 00:52, STARS: 2
Respect and professionalism is one thing, but you can’t hate on people for price-researching the second-largest purchase most of them will ever make.
Let’s be honest here – premium/luxury experiences are excuses to charge more for stuff. These are tactics specifically designed to butter a customer up, so as to (a) increase his willingness to pay, and (b) justify it. I’m not gonna pay for someone to not be a dick to me.
This is doubly true when buying something as expensive as a(ny) car.
I helped a friend buy a new S3 recently. We priced the car online and figured out a target price (i.e. invoice, less incentives, plus dealer profit) before ever visiting any dealerships.
Eventually, we find the exact spec my friend wants at dealership #1. Not 10 minutes after the test drive, and we’re at $500 above our magic number. That probably would have been fine were that $500 not a doc fee...
We ask the guy to take the doc fee off – he refuses. My friend says he will sign immediately if the doc fee is taken off (this was genuine) – again, the salesguy refuses. “I’ve never seen an S3 go for so low,” he says, “if you cannot see this is a fantastic price for this car...”
I know doc fees are BS. My friend knows doc fees are BS. So, that 1% worth of BS makes us decide to see if we can do better elsewhere.
The next day, we find an identical S3 at dealership #2. We bring the quote from dealership #1, and simply ask salesguy #2 if he can match or beat it. He beats it by $500, and is more respectful and professional right off the bat than salesguy #1 was (which was a bonus for us). My friend signs immediately.
So were you like guy #1 or guy #2? I have no way of knowing. What I do know is that you can’t obligate everyone that spends time with you to give you (lots of) their money, no matter the amount of ‘premium’ this and ‘luxury’ that.
"09GT - now boosted" (09gt)
03/16/2017 at 13:55, STARS: 1
Aren’t most BMWs leased specials that cost as much as Toyotas anyway?
To your point:
I really had my mind set this winter to get either an ATS coupe or an A5. Did my research online, found the cars I was interested in, had a target price in mind and a trade-in price in mind. The Cadillac dealer was horrible, with the salesperson, and her manager, repeatedly going back to the head manager with price adjustments, etc. It was like I was buying a Kia, except for leather chairs and gourmet coffee. Almost a complete waste of my time, except I was getting our 2009 SRX serviced at the same time (I had purchased the SRX in other state before moving to our current locale). The Audi dealership did not waste my time, but they acted as if it were a privilege to buy an Audi, and scoffed at my trade-in (2009 Mustang GT) and appearance (jeans and t-shirt - I’m a physician and it was a day-off). Wouldn’t budge on a fair price. Again, gourmet coffee. After these frustrating experiences, I decided to just get another Mustang. Found one I wanted, had a target price. Got an appointment (out-of-town dealer) and the car was parked out front waiting. The salesman met me and gave me the keys (he was busy working with 2 other people). He and the manager looked at my trade-in and gave $500 more than his estimate from pics I’d sent him. Negotiated quickly for a price BELOW my target, and left in less than an hour. The salesman apologized for being so busy, but I wrote him a personal check for a bonus ($200) because the process went so smoothly. The Folgers coffee was fine. THAT is a luxury experience.
"B_dol" (bdolan40)
03/16/2017 at 19:49, STARS: 1
If this is BMW I hesitate to consider them a luxury brand anymore given the dealer experience is identical to Honda/Toyota/Mazda and nothing close to Porsche.
“Ohh you want to drive the car before buying? Nice try”. I have had a great experience once the decision to buy has been made, absolute garbage in allowing a test drive.
Parking is also limited due to an overflow of cars on the lot, so when I took the only open spot in a row of new cars a salesman yelled at me. Politely told him the car is staying put until my business is finished, guess owning 2 BMWs is no indicator of being a possible future customer.
"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
03/16/2017 at 20:45, STARS: 0
Wow. Where was that at? And I don’t think it’s fair to judge a whole brand by one shitty dealer.
"B_dol" (bdolan40)
03/16/2017 at 21:53, STARS: 1
Both of these dealers are in the San Francisco area, about 15 minutes from one another. For a custom order 228i one said $3000 over MSRP was the best they could do straight to my face - left and went to the other one where we were treated fairly and got MSRP plus a little bonus (I think the sales rep liked the fact my wife was buying a manual car).
So far so good, until the car shows up 8 weeks later with a DCT... which they try to sell us before settling for $1000 more off and another 8 week wait. Truth be told, my experiences with the 1 salesman (still there) have been great, nobody else gives us the time of day. I have been discussing the M2 in detail with them but its still anybody’s guess for test drives - utilizing the BMWCCA group to find a fellow owner instead.
My Mazda and Porsche experiences have been phenomenal, props to both of those outfits for creating a great environment to shop.
"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
03/18/2017 at 22:11, STARS: 1
$7 will get you a small coffee at Starbucks.
Hah! Maybe ten years ago it would. Now it would get you half of their shitty cheese danishes (THEIR LAST FOOD VENDOR WAS SO MUCH BETTER DAMMIT)