by "ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
Published 03/09/2017 at 10:21
by "ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
Published 03/09/2017 at 10:21
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STARS: 10
Yes, that’s a giant hammer.
The Austin Symphony is performing Mahler’s Sixth Symphony in two weeks. It’s a very intense, emotional (and very long) work. But even if you don’t listen to all of this brilliant performance, check out the giant frickin’ hammer in the last movement. The first blow comes at 1:05:50, before the brass chorale, and again at 1:10:35 before the second statement of the chorale.
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This is a very large orchestra, with 4 harps, 6 trumpets, 8 horns, every string player in town, pretty much every percussion instrument imaginable, and while it’s relatively common for a composer to call for an anvil sound (usually replicated by beating on a brake drum), it’s the only Mahler symphony to include a giant hammer. It’s not entirely clear why Mahler wrote for the hammer, but I think he was after a sound that you felt in your chest but don’t necessarily hear, and some have called them “hammer blows of fate.” Either way, it’s pretty intense.
The sound of the hammer, which features in the last movement, was stipulated by Mahler to be “brief and mighty, but dull in resonance and with a non-metallic character (like the fall of an axe).” The sound achieved in the premiere did not quite carry far enough from the stage, and indeed the problem of achieving the proper volume while still remaining dull in resonance remains a challenge to the modern orchestra. Various methods of producing the sound have involved a wooden mallet striking a wooden surface, a sledgehammer striking a wooden box, or a particularly large bass drum, or sometimes simultaneous use of more than one of these methods.
And, if you’ve gotten far enough into the video to hear the remarkable trumpet playing by Reinhold Friedrich, those guys are playing rotary trumpets , different from the piston trumpets you are probably familiar with. The rotary valve (no, not Mazda) is like the valve on the horn, and the instrument generally has a warmer, less piercing tone than a piston trumpet. They are used primarily in Germany, Austria and eastern Europe, but they have become more popular in recent years in the US and other countries for performance of works by Beethoven, Brahms, Mozart, Bruckner, and others.
"DrZ" (dzehner2)
03/09/2017 at 10:29, STARS: 2
Uffda, that bass trombone after the second hammer blow gives me tingles in my man bits.
"Agrajag" (Agrajag)
03/09/2017 at 10:36, STARS: 3
Coincidentally, I just came across this gif the other day.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
03/09/2017 at 10:39, STARS: 4
That’s got to be trumpet 4, 5, or 6. Trumpets 1-3 have to play immediately after the hammer blow, so there’s no time to cover up your year. Also, this:
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
03/09/2017 at 10:43, STARS: 0
Can a cornet be used to approximate the tone quality of a rotary valve trumpet?
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
03/09/2017 at 10:43, STARS: 0
That’s Wagner, btw, not Mahler.
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"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
03/09/2017 at 10:52, STARS: 3
No, and it’s down to the construction of the instrument. The trumpet is a cylindrical instrument, while the cornet is conical. In a cylindrical instrument, the bore tapers out from the mouthpiece until it reaches a specific diameter, then stays that diameter until you get to the bell flare. A conical instrument gradually gets wider throughout the length of the tube. Cylindrical instruments (trumpet, trombone, baritone) have a somewhat brighter, more piercing tone. Conical instruments (horn, cornet, euphonium, tuba) have a warmer, darker sound. The cornet would have the wrong timbre, and would not have the same carrying power of a trumpet.
Which is not to say that the cornet doesn’t belong in the orchestra. In the history of the instruments, the cornet was the first to get valves to become a chromatic instrument (able to play all of the notes). The trumpet historically (back to the Baroque and through Mozat and Haydn) was basically a very big bugle, only able to play certain notes in a chord (tonic, third, fifth, etc through the harmonic series). Once the cornet was introduced, it played alongside the trumpets for a time in Romantic orchestras like Berlioz and Saint-Saens, more often French, since the cornet was a French invention. So the cornet played the melodies while the trumpet played the fanfares (basically). Today, we usually play both parts on trumpet, but sometimes cornets are used on the cornet parts. I think it makes a very nice timbral bridge between the trumpets and horns.
There will be a test on Monday.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
03/09/2017 at 11:02, STARS: 2
Perversely, performances of the well-known folk piece “If I had a hammer” almost
never
feature a hammer.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
03/09/2017 at 11:04, STARS: 1
In Twelfth Night , Shakespeare famously wrote, “If music be the food of love, play on,” but he never said what to play on.
"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
03/09/2017 at 11:24, STARS: 0
Are we to assume that if the Austin SO undertakes the 1812 Overture, the appropriate artillery would be introduced into the hall?
"merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc" (merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc)
03/09/2017 at 11:36, STARS: 2
Hey that guy forgot the watermelon... but seriously, it’s good to see Gallagher got a new gig.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
03/09/2017 at 11:46, STARS: 0
There will be a test on Monday.
Pffft, I got this.
In school, I remember one or two of the trumpet players used cornets. In a concert setting, they usually considered them interchangeable, mostly I think because high school kids seldom have more than one instrument. For instance, we had to have an alto sax play the solo in one piece because we didn’t have an english horn.
Anyway, I read warmer tone, and it triggered “cornet” in my head; so, I thought I’d ask.
"and 100 more" (nth256)
03/09/2017 at 11:48, STARS: 2
Giant hammer aside, there’s something incredibly satisfying in seeing all the bows of the violinists in perfect sync, all at the same angle...
Half of enjoying orchestral music, to me, is watching it be played.
"ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)" (adabofoppo)
03/09/2017 at 11:52, STARS: 1
The perfect instrument for Jeremy Clarkson.
"EngineerWithTools" (engineerwithtools)
03/09/2017 at 11:55, STARS: 0
This is why I love Mahler, the man knew how to use volume. Even though it doesn’t require a hammer, his 2nd does require a full chorus, the same big ass group of percussionists and, maybe most importantly, a full-on, high-HP pipe organ.
Someone - maybe Garrison Keillor? - once said that most people that die at concerts are killed by the trumpets. I’m ok with this.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
03/09/2017 at 12:06, STARS: 2
I have played Mahler 2, and there is something visceral about being on stage at the end of that work.
Someone - maybe Garrison Keillor? - once said that most people that die at concerts are killed by the trumpets. I’m ok with this.
There is a quote attributed to Richard Strauss: “Don’t ever look at the brass. It only encourages them.”
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
03/09/2017 at 12:08, STARS: 1
My son plays in his MS band, and he is using the same cornet that I started on 40 years ago. When he starts HS band next year, I’ll get him a trumpet. In a school setting, there is no reason you can’t intermix the instruments. In my opinion, it is better for young kids to start on cornet. It’s easier to hold and easier to make a pretty sound on.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
03/09/2017 at 12:15, STARS: 0
As long as it’s not one of these:
ETA: Please don’t hurt me. I was just trying to see how easily you trigger.
"RallyWrench" (rndlitebmw)
03/09/2017 at 12:23, STARS: 1
That’s it, I’m selling my kit. My new ambition as a percussionist is to be that guy.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
03/09/2017 at 12:33, STARS: 0
I would really like to hear the hammer blow in person.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
03/09/2017 at 12:40, STARS: 0
I’ll let you know how it sounds. No idea what sort of hammer we’re using. Hopefully, it will be on the other side of the stage from me!
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
03/09/2017 at 12:40, STARS: 0
You won’t work much.
"7:07" (fanbrain001)
03/09/2017 at 12:49, STARS: 0
The scale of Mahler’s works is insane (“#8, The Symphony of a Thousand”). I bought a 3 CD set of his 6th symphony ages ago. Maybe it’s time to listen to it again. It’s the Zander Philharmonia Orchestra version on SACD by Telarc and it made a pretty long-lasting impression on me when I bought it so many years ago. I need to find somewhere to hear Mahler in person.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
03/09/2017 at 12:50, STARS: 0
I should honestly make an effort to get out to the symphony more. I have tickets for a show in April at least.
"RallyWrench" (rndlitebmw)
03/09/2017 at 12:51, STARS: 3
But when I do, I will win hearts and minds, and be shared on obscure off-topic car blogs.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
03/09/2017 at 12:52, STARS: 0
That’s pretty damned ugly. But that’s not to say that all plastic trumpets sound terrible. This is Jim Wilt, the Assoc. Principal with the LA Phil. I studied with him for a couple of years as a grad student. He’s a remarkable player. Just watch how efficient he looks when playing a really hard piece. Anyway, here he is playing the Intrada by Arthur Honegger on a plastic C trumpet.
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My teacher would often quote his teacher, who said, “I never met a good player who, when given a bad instrument, suddenly became a bad player. Likewise, I never heard a bad player who, when given a good instrument, suddenly became a good player. It’s 90-percent the man.”
And here’s that pTrumpet in the hands of international soloist and recording artist Alison Balsom.
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"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
03/09/2017 at 12:53, STARS: 0
Listen to the Abbado recording on the video. It’s remarkable, really. I’ve been listening to a recording done by Cleveland and George Szell from back in the 60s, but this Lucerne performance blows it out of the water.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
03/09/2017 at 12:54, STARS: 0
What are you going to hear?
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
03/09/2017 at 12:54, STARS: 2
Really, what more is there to life?
"7:07" (fanbrain001)
03/09/2017 at 13:07, STARS: 0
Does the Lucerne performance above include all three hammer strikes?
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
03/09/2017 at 13:12, STARS: 0
But why? The only reason I can think of at the moment is for a kid whose just getting started and you don’t want to worry about damaging something expensive.
"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
03/09/2017 at 14:23, STARS: 1
The Wichita Symphony is doing a tribute to John Williams
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
03/09/2017 at 15:35, STARS: 0
That would be a great show to go hear. We did one of those last season, but I couldn’t play it. I was bummed.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
03/09/2017 at 15:38, STARS: 1
Marching in freezing weather, traveling, you can make them in a school’s colors, significantly lighter. For most situations where you might use a plastic instrument, great tone is not a factor. Lots of people march with plastic clarinets because cold and rain wreak havoc on wooden instruments. Plus, trumpet players can be a vain lot, and having a funky colored instrument would appeal to them.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
03/09/2017 at 15:39, STARS: 0
Just two. Mahler could never quite decide how many he wanted, but he finally settled on two.
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
03/09/2017 at 15:58, STARS: 0
This is awesome... I sent the info to my dad (who lives in Austin now) and my sister, who will be visiting from California that weekend. Offered to buy tickets for them if they can attend - hope it works out. Thanks for sharing!
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
03/09/2017 at 16:00, STARS: 1
Neat! Let me know if they plan to attend. I’ll be sitting third from the left in the trumpet section.
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
03/09/2017 at 16:18, STARS: 1
I did tell them that I heard about this from an “acquaintance” that plays trumpet with the symphony, because if I’d said friend, I might have had to explain OPPO and what we have here - ha!
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
03/09/2017 at 16:21, STARS: 2
The first rule of Oppo is: you do not talk about Oppo. My family refers to Oppo as “Daddy’s little website.”
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
03/09/2017 at 16:44, STARS: 0
Okay, sure. But I couldn’t do it. Guess I’m a brass snob.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
03/09/2017 at 16:47, STARS: 0
I wouldn’t play one on a daily basis, but if I had to travel and stay in shape, it would be a great solution. I’ve heard too many stories of people who had their horns damaged in transit, even when you carry it on. I know cellists who have bought a seat for their instrument. The plastic horn in the first video sounded decidedly better than the red one in the second, and that’s not just down to the player. At $200, I might consider getting one for my son, who will start marching next year.
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
03/09/2017 at 16:49, STARS: 1
My wife just kind of smiles and nods, especially concerning stuff like Secret Senna.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
03/09/2017 at 17:19, STARS: 0
They’re cheaper than that. Trombones too. I first came across them on eBay when I was shopping flutes for my daughter.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
03/09/2017 at 17:35, STARS: 0
Interesting. I noticed that they actually altered the traditional construction of the valves and attached slides. It introduces a distinct right angle to the air flow, which would lead to a more restricted flow when the valves are depressed. This would probably also affect intonation as well. They even make one with a silver finish. I’d love to try one. Heck, for under $200 it might be fun to get one just to fiddle with it.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
03/09/2017 at 17:40, STARS: 1
Definitely. Check eBay. That’s where I got my daughter’s flute and found one cheap enough for me to teach myself on. $36
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
03/09/2017 at 19:32, STARS: 1
We think we’re metal now, but classical laughs at us. Giant hammers, anvils, cannons, Beethoven, we got nothing on all that.
"facw" (facw)
03/09/2017 at 23:12, STARS: 1
Smaller hammer, more car related:
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