by "JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
Published 03/08/2017 at 17:31
by "JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
Published 03/08/2017 at 17:31
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I had a great idea pop into my head when I was eating. A car that runs purely off of air and electricity . Has it been released yet? I think it’s a mind-blowing idea, and will put many new technologies into effect.
"TheTurbochargedSquirrel" (thatsquirrel)
03/08/2017 at 17:34, STARS: 3
Don’t quite know how you are planning to get that to work. You often run into issues with the laws of thermodynamics.
"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
03/08/2017 at 17:34, STARS: 0
Electric jet engine?
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
03/08/2017 at 17:35, STARS: 0
Compressed air? Didn’t Renault have a air/electric hybrid concept a few years back?
"TheTurbochargedSquirrel" (thatsquirrel)
03/08/2017 at 17:36, STARS: 0
There are engines which work that way but you need something compressing the air for you.
"Wobbles the Mind" (wobblesthemind)
03/08/2017 at 17:37, STARS: 0
Like a Tesla pirate ship?! I love it!!
"Orange Exige" (OrangeExige)
03/08/2017 at 17:37, STARS: 0
Are you referring to that new battery technology in which the battery is charged by reacting with the air? If so - or any way I suppose - we’re probably quite far out from any feasible implementation.
Think of how long lithium ion batteries have been around and the fact that some/most (I don’t think all- yet?) hybrid and electric are just using lithium ion now...
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
03/08/2017 at 17:37, STARS: 0
Hence the electric power
"MonkeePuzzle" (monkeypuzzle)
03/08/2017 at 17:38, STARS: 0
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
"Nibby" (nibby68)
03/08/2017 at 17:39, STARS: 0
just add watts and voltage
"TheTurbochargedSquirrel" (thatsquirrel)
03/08/2017 at 17:39, STARS: 1
It is so much more efficient to just use the electricity to drive the wheels. There are a ton of losses in driving an electric motor to compress air which then gets used to drive an engine which drives the car.
"CB" (jrcb)
03/08/2017 at 17:46, STARS: 2
Uhhhh... it’s not really a great idea.
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 17:51, STARS: 0
Highly compressed air is forced through a turbine, which is connected to the wheels. Turbine also spins generator.
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 17:52, STARS: 0
It works! And, dammit, it’s already been done.
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 17:53, STARS: 0
WAAAAAATSSSSS
"CB" (jrcb)
03/08/2017 at 17:53, STARS: 0
Sure, it works, but not well.
"TheTurbochargedSquirrel" (thatsquirrel)
03/08/2017 at 17:55, STARS: 0
Where’s the compressed air coming from? Compressing air requires a ton of energy and you are essentially venting through a turbine.
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 17:55, STARS: 0
I can do that.
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 17:58, STARS: 0
I’ll make it in SketchUp soon, but basically, here’s how it works.
Highly compressed air is stored in a large metal container. Valve that opens the container is operated by the throttle.
Air moves into a turbine, which spins the wheels.
Air also spins another turbine which spins a generator, that produces electricity, that goes to a battery, which goes to a motor, which drives the wheels.
Also, under braking, large flaps open up and stuff the container full of air.
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 17:58, STARS: 0
Yay finally a supporter.
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 17:58, STARS: 0
And not at all like a ship.
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 18:06, STARS: 0
Compressors, like many people have in their garages. Or one of those tire refilling places that gas stations have.
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 18:07, STARS: 0
But, think about it, you will never have to pay for gas. Ever again.
"CB" (jrcb)
03/08/2017 at 18:10, STARS: 1
However, you still have to pay for something to compress the air, and the fact that the range of a tested vehicle was 7.2 kilometres means that your car is basically useless. I’d rather walk that.
"TheTurbochargedSquirrel" (thatsquirrel)
03/08/2017 at 18:17, STARS: 2
Ok, storing that air on the vehicle is going to be an issue. As you drain air out of your pressure vessel the pressure drops rapidly. In robotics we had a 2L vessel pressurized to 110psi. We could trigger a pneumatic cylinder 5 times before the pressure reached a point where the cylinder started becoming weaker in its actuation. The compressor we had on the robot to re-pressurize the system when it dropped below 80psi used more power than every other system on the robot combined when it was running.
Air pressure disappears very quickly when you start using it and requires a lot of energy to maintain.
"tromoly" (tromoly)
03/08/2017 at 18:45, STARS: 2
Holy efficiency losses batman, you’re expecting to move more than 15 feet with that arrangement?
"MrDakka" (mrdakka)
03/08/2017 at 18:56, STARS: 0
It’s been tried many times before and it’s just never measured up to competing energy storage systems for mass adoption.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_air_car
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 19:59, STARS: 0
Yes. Once the air gets the motors spinning, it will rocket off.
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 20:00, STARS: 0
It would basically be a small city car. But what about turbocharging? That would work just fine.
"CB" (jrcb)
03/08/2017 at 20:06, STARS: 1
... what? None of what you just said makes any sense. Small city car my arse! 7.2 kilometres is absolutely nothing. That would limit you to a 3.6 kilometre radius at best. It’s useless.
Also, turbocharging? EDIT BECAUSE I FORGOT HOW TO TURBO, BUT IT’S NOT GOING TO WORK
"CB" (jrcb)
03/08/2017 at 20:11, STARS: 1
[citation needed]
"tromoly" (tromoly)
03/08/2017 at 20:46, STARS: 1
How long does that supply last? Your energy density is so low compared to other methods, not to mention the possible danger of super high pressures.
Further, why convert some to electricity and incur losses just to drive the wheels again, which is more losses? Why double your losses when it’s not necessary to do so?
I’d love to see your calculations behind this, if you don’t mind sharing them.
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 21:15, STARS: 0
Turbo uses exhaust gases to suck in air.
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 21:16, STARS: 0
I’m going to share a sketchup file soon.
"CB" (jrcb)
03/08/2017 at 21:20, STARS: 1
So you need the exhaust to spin a compressor to cause air to be pushed in faster to produce more power. I understand, but I don’t think it’s going to do a whole lot to improve anything. I’m not an engineer, but it seems like the efficiency losses in introducing a system like that would only make things worse.
"LastFirstMI is my name" (donstone13)
03/08/2017 at 21:44, STARS: 0
So you just bring along a little gas-powered air compressor. Duh.
/s
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 22:07, STARS: 0
Here’s the link to the SketchUp file, just download it. It’s a 3D SketchUp file, which I had no idea existed.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7TAQBqPurFMTUl2WXJFMC1BYkU/view?usp=sharing
Here’s a key:
Dark Grey = Air Bottle (Contains Compressed Air)
Green = Driveshaft (Goes To Wheels)
Blue + Red = Magnet
Yellow = Coil Of Copper Wire
(Blue + Red) + Yellow = Generator (Spun By Driveshaft)
Pink = Wire (To Batteries, From Generator)
Well, it will work. I think.
"CB" (jrcb)
03/08/2017 at 22:11, STARS: 0
Nope, not downloading files from strangers on the internet.
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 22:19, STARS: 0
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7TAQBqPurFMeExORHhXTmtoRTA/view?usp=sharing
There, a video instead. And BTW, google drive scans for viruses.
"CB" (jrcb)
03/08/2017 at 22:19, STARS: 1
There are no calculations. You should have known that when this statement appeared:
“Also, under braking, large flaps open up and stuff the container full of air.”
That’s not how this works. That’s not how any of this works.
"CB" (jrcb)
03/08/2017 at 22:22, STARS: 0
That may be one of the most ludicrous things I have ever seen on this forum. As previously stated, I am not an engineer by any means, but this does not make any sense.
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 22:28, STARS: 0
Air spins a turbine, which spins a generator, and both are used to make power. Not bad, eh?
"CB" (jrcb)
03/08/2017 at 22:32, STARS: 0
So what’s your efficiency and distance per tank?
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 22:38, STARS: 0
I haven’t tested it but I’d say around 5,000,000,000 mpg.
Kidding.
Here’s how it’ll work:
Air will fire, kickstarting the generator.
The generator will go to the battery, which does two things: send power to the wheels and also power a turbocharger that rams air into the air tank. Like a F1 KERS system.
Meanwhile, the green driveshaft is powering the wheels alongside the electric motors. Not that much air power, but about 6 turbines and air tanks and you have a car that will rocket off super fast.
I suspect that when the batteries are flat, the car will slowly accelerate to ~15 MPH then the motors will kick in and it will rocket off into space. Then it won’t do a cold acceleration until the batteries go flat again.
I need to build some sort of working model, small-scale, like a wooden cart with those engines. Just to see.
"CB" (jrcb)
03/08/2017 at 22:48, STARS: 1
You’re trolling me. I give up.
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 22:52, STARS: 0
Perhaps you are skilled in other areas. I may be speaking complete gibberish to you, but to other engineers, I would be making perfect sense. I’m not calling you stupid, I am calling you uneducated in a minor specific field of engineering. You could most likely outsmart me in other fields, but at least I take this one.
"CB" (jrcb)
03/08/2017 at 23:01, STARS: 1
Except there are other others explaining why it won’t work, or that it would work very poorly? I’m not the only one shooting your idea down here.
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 23:02, STARS: 0
Well, it will work for me. I hope.
"CB" (jrcb)
03/08/2017 at 23:03, STARS: 1
Good luck.
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/08/2017 at 23:04, STARS: 0
Thanks. Now, onto F1. Any predictions?
"tromoly" (tromoly)
03/08/2017 at 23:18, STARS: 0
I knew it all along, just playing the game to see how deep of a hole can be dug.
"CB" (jrcb)
03/08/2017 at 23:38, STARS: 0
It’s a deep hole.
"tromoly" (tromoly)
03/09/2017 at 00:07, STARS: 0
The second law of thermodynamics is lost on some people, makes for some great reading and/or lots of face palming.
"CB" (jrcb)
03/09/2017 at 00:26, STARS: 0
Yuuup. I counter-propose a car with a wind turbine on the roof, so that way when the car moves, the air will turn the turbine, create electricity, and power the car forever.
"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
03/09/2017 at 05:23, STARS: 0
close enough?
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a9252/how-it-works-the-hybrid-air-car-15724045/
"JohnH3ASP" (jh3-21)
03/09/2017 at 05:41, STARS: 0
More like this:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7TAQBqPurFMTUl2WXJFMC1BYkU/view?usp=sharing
"tromoly" (tromoly)
03/09/2017 at 11:21, STARS: 1
How about have an electric motor drive the wheels, then have the wheels drive an alternator to produce electricity. Combine that and your wind turbine and we can make MORE energy than we use!
"CB" (jrcb)
03/09/2017 at 11:50, STARS: 1
I’ll call the patent office! We’re going to be rich! Why has no one thought of this before?