by "CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
Published 03/07/2017 at 18:51
by "CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
Published 03/07/2017 at 18:51
Tags: corvette
; c4
; c4.r
; racecar
STARS: 2
I have found two “local” car that I would like to turn into my C4.R. My plan is to buy a 91+ C4 because they are pretty much the same externally and drive it around a little to see the difference. The interior differences don’t really matter since it’ll pretty much all go away except for the main dash, but that will get modified as well. So the question is buy the nicer one to start with to enjoy that till I take it apart or do I take the more rational route and buy the cheaper one, deal with its issues since most of the car will be replaced and get the ZR-1 style wheels I need/want? It is a hard choice cause while the cheaper is the ‘93 Anniversary model which is neat, they would have used a ‘96 ZR1 (buying a base C4 and swapping in ZR1 drivetrain) for the car and the ‘95 is closer. So what do you think? Older and cheaper or closer to the car that would have been used?
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Links if Kinj’d
Also, I can’t find anything mechanically between the ‘93-’96. Anyone have any good info on that?
"JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7" (jayzayeighty)
03/07/2017 at 19:03, STARS: 1
Dammit, PRC! Those are crazy cheap. But honestly, aren’t they too good for donor cars? Are your plans for a race car? ‘93 to ‘96 are pretty damned similar aside from vented Optispark being added and LT4 on ‘96 6 speed cars. An early ‘93 will have black tag ZF6 (stronger, heavier, noisier) and cars after that will have a weaker and revised blue tag. Pass. airbag added in ‘94 along with some other minor interior/instrumentation changes. More here . They will effectively be the same car. That ‘93 already has ‘94/’95 ZR1 style wheels, just narrower (EDIT: The rears look wide enough to be 17x11, so I’m thinking replicas or maybe real ZR1 wheels). With the ‘88+ offset, that’s the kind that will fit.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
03/07/2017 at 19:04, STARS: 0
1995. It has the vented opti setup and MAF vs. SD. ZR1 wheels are not rare enough to be a deal breaker.
"JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7" (jayzayeighty)
03/07/2017 at 19:09, STARS: 0
If those are authentic OEM ZR1 wheels on the ‘93, though, that might tip the scales in its favor. It seems like that LT1 might be getting swapped out anyways, looking back on older posts.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
03/07/2017 at 19:12, STARS: 0
Good point. As for the engine, doesn’t Cali do some type of fuckery with model year/engine year?
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/07/2017 at 19:20, STARS: 0
No, I want to start off in a kinda nice place in case the build process takes a while to get going or anything, so I can drive it around.
Plus I want to drive them to get a feel for the difference when the build is done.
PRC? Cheap compared to where?
"JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7" (jayzayeighty)
03/07/2017 at 19:21, STARS: 1
I think they do. The engine has to be the same model year as the car or newer IIRC? So a ‘96 is out. Most of your LT5s are probably going to be 1990 and 1991. My vote goes to a 1990 then, I guess. A super cheap 1984-1987 rolling chassis would let you cram 32mm offset ZR1 rears on all four corners. ‘85 would have a strong rear end and ‘86 would have a decent ECU. From there one could source some junkyard body parts to do the facelift. The 4+3 would probably need attention, so you could dump it for a TKO600, ZF6, or ROD 6 speed if available. This is going to require a lot of fabrication and tinkering no matter the year. LT5 will cost a lot to buy, but more to repair and modify. Same with an abused ZF6. A neglected ZR1 should still be close to 4 figures; I just saw a gorgeous 1990 ZR1 on the classifieds go for $12,500 and that had low miles with a pristine interior and good paint. A 1990 standard car with a bad motor probably makes sense considering regulations now that you mention them. A basket case ZR1 might be the best bet, though.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
03/07/2017 at 19:27, STARS: 1
Don’t 85+ autos get the D36 vs the D44 in 85+ manuals? Either way, a D44 is probably what he’d want.
I *think* there were some leftover LT5s for sale in Norman, OK but they might have sold a while ago.
"JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7" (jayzayeighty)
03/07/2017 at 19:34, STARS: 2
Yeah, I think just about every automatic C4 ever came with a D36. Not going to stand up to an LT5 under most conditions. I know of built D36s grenading behind 383 stroker L98s putting out about as much torque.
I’ve never bothered to look for LT5s, but I’m seeing complete longblocks on Ebay for $7,500. Not too ridiculous but enough that I’d be looking for a real ZR-1 as a starting point. Time and parts to retrofit and get everything right will be significant, and even then you’ll do a lot of customization to get the chassis up to par and able to handle that hefty 4 cam up front.
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
03/07/2017 at 19:35, STARS: 1
Always go for the cleaner car that is in better shape, especially for a racecar project. Starting with a rough car only creates more work. The fact that neither of those ads really mention much about the cars, and absolutely nothing about their service history, is potentially concerning.
Here are some common issues to use as negotiating points:
Be especially interested in the condition of the clutch and flywheel. The dual-mass flywheels no longer exist, so clutch replacement will include a single mass conversion, and it will be pricey. In addition to the flywheel, high-quality pressure plates are no longer produced for these cars, so the remaining NOS out there is pricey. Ditto for the throw out bearings, and the slave and master cylinders.
Also take a good look at the lower ball joints and rear wheel bearings. Both tend to have lifespans of about 50k or 60k on C4's. In addition play being present, the lower ball joints have built in wear indicators. The distance between the zerk and outer housing for the ball joint indicate how worn they are. As a rough rule, if you can’t fit a grease gun over the zerk, they ball joints are worn past the service limit. Also take a good look at the two bushings that connect the differential (which forms the base of the rear suspension) to the chassis. They take the most abuse on these cars (especially manual cars) and they take a whole lot of labor to replace. If equipped with electronic ride control, replacement Bilstien shocks will be several hundred dollars each.
The climate control is worth paying attention to. Compressors are pricey and all of the automatic controllers (and the associated box of vacuum controllers under the dash) will eventually have issues due to failed solder joints and capacitors on the boards. There are no more new ones to be had, but there is one company that rebuilds them for a price. Ditto for the digital portion of the dash. If the A/C compressor is not operational, the cooling fans will not kick on until 227 degrees.
"JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7" (jayzayeighty)
03/07/2017 at 19:36, STARS: 1
People’s Republic of California, as it tends to be called by anyone building project car. I remember reading that the engine going into the car has to be the same year or newer than the car itself, so that rules out a ‘96 and probably ‘94 and ‘95 too for practicality if that’s the case. Here in the DC area, those C4s would probably be over $8,000. I paid as much for my neglected ‘85. I see where you’re coming from on driving the car and it seems like a good idea to get the most enjoyment. But I think that for the price of buying this car and an LT5 and then getting everything sorted, you probably have enough room for a decent ZR1. I can see the appeal of having a unique project like this, though.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
03/07/2017 at 19:44, STARS: 1
Not too ridiculous but enough that I’d be looking for a real ZR-1 as a starting point.
Considering the work involved that doesn’t seem like that bad an option.
"JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7" (jayzayeighty)
03/07/2017 at 19:45, STARS: 1
Oh, and forgot that the LT5 ZF6 has many application-specific components. Buying the engine and trans together is the way to go.
"JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7" (jayzayeighty)
03/07/2017 at 20:00, STARS: 0
I just read about one guy who has done it on three cars, but it’s really a matter of building what GM engineers built with the ZR1 prototypes. He seems to do convertibles, which makes sense being that there were never LT5 ‘verts. http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?p=137275
"JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7" (jayzayeighty)
03/07/2017 at 20:01, STARS: 1
This thread may be useful if only for the contact info:
http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?p=137275
Here’s an engine/trans combo. The LT5 uses different bellhousing, input shaft, etc.
"seaanemone85" (seaanemone85)
03/07/2017 at 22:49, STARS: 0
Leslie Knope.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/08/2017 at 00:05, STARS: 0
What does she have to do with this?
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/08/2017 at 00:08, STARS: 0
Thank you for the contact info.
I know all about the drivetrains, hence watching this
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/08/2017 at 00:10, STARS: 0
Well it would be cheaper to buy the two seperatlye and I don’t end up ruining a real ZR1.
Never have heard that term before. I love this sate, but yes it is very blue and you have a point about that, but slightly in correct. Plus I’d register it in another state.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/08/2017 at 11:30, STARS: 0
All the ZR-1s I can find are all north of $25k, so that is why I was starting with a cheap $6k car and a $8k Motor and trans. That is like saving $5k and I don’t tear apart a real ZR-1
"seaanemone85" (seaanemone85)
03/08/2017 at 14:03, STARS: 0
to quote todd, “i think you know.”
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/08/2017 at 14:05, STARS: 0
"seaanemone85" (seaanemone85)
03/08/2017 at 14:18, STARS: 1
hrrm. those directional wheels are mismatched. have you ever heard of a charmer named optispark? sorry about the todd rundgren; too young?
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"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/08/2017 at 14:24, STARS: 0
The wheels are mismatched, I wonder if the tread is too.... Optispark isn’t a worry. The LT-1 will be going away quickly.
Who? Lol
"JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7" (jayzayeighty)
03/08/2017 at 20:34, STARS: 1
While I don’t want to steer you away from doing something truly interesting and original, real-deal ZR1s aren’t really prohibitive as the cost factor is concerned.
This
is a pristine, low-mileage example that can probably be had for $15,000. There are less fortunate cars out there with a price reflecting inferior condition. I’d also want some kind of guarantee on the engine/trans as they are really expensive to repair. ZR-1s might be bottoming out now, so that might be my starting point in the current market if LT-5 is a must. Definitely if widebody is a requisite. Just one consideration, though.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/09/2017 at 00:39, STARS: 0
Oh man I wold deffinatley be interested in a low quality interior ZR-1