by "Klaus Schmoll" (klausschmoll)
Published 03/07/2017 at 14:58
by "Klaus Schmoll" (klausschmoll)
Published 03/07/2017 at 14:58
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Time has come for me to shit or get off the pot, and with the current developments I’m so sure a diesel is the right proposition anymore. To explain to the non-Germans, several German cities are to ban all diesel cars except the newest Euro 6 compliant ones from their inner cities soon. And a lot of experts expect that even those will follow eventually. My beloved E61s are Euro4, so either way they are out, and a new Euro 6 diesel is out of my budget (I don’t like the idea of these stupidly long car loans).
I live in the middle of nowhere, but I have friends in Berlin, Hamburg, Munich etc. whom I like to visit without having to park in the outskirts and taking a train. So maybe an “i” instead of a “d”?
Unfortunately, one of the goals of the purchase of a newer car was to cut fuel bills, and that’s not going to happen with a petrol inline 6.
What to do, what to do?
"My citroen won't start" (lucasboechat)
03/07/2017 at 15:02, STARS: 0
How will they check which cars have Euro6 or Euro4 (or gas engines) compliant engines?
Is there a specific Badge Checking Police Task Unit?
"CompactLuxuryFan" (compactluxury)
03/07/2017 at 15:02, STARS: 1
Park on the outskirts and take a train! Then Q7 V12
"Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell." (oppisitelock)
03/07/2017 at 15:03, STARS: 0
Id be scared to buy a diesel right now with all thats going on. With all the stuff coming from governments recently I wouldnt be surprised if they jacked up the tax in diesel fuel or similar to further discourage them.
"Klaus Schmoll" (klausschmoll)
03/07/2017 at 15:05, STARS: 0
You already have to have one of those in your windshield. They want to introduce a blue one.
"FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem" (fuelstratifiedinjection)
03/07/2017 at 15:05, STARS: 0
Hm, depends on how long you would want to keep such a vehicle. I would tend to say go for it as long as you can because like you said, you live in MeckPomm which is rather rural. The pros still outweigh the cons at the moment and I don’t see a general diesel/fossil fuel ban in Germany until the second half of the next decade.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
03/07/2017 at 15:05, STARS: 0
Yes.
"cberg" (cberg)
03/07/2017 at 15:06, STARS: 0
PHEV V60?
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
03/07/2017 at 15:08, STARS: 0
I wouldn’t get a modern diesel just for all the reliability and maintenance issues that come with DPFs and AdbBlue.
You could lower your average cruising speed for better fuel consumption? (No, I don’t really believe this to be an option either)
"Klaus Schmoll" (klausschmoll)
03/07/2017 at 15:11, STARS: 0
Try finding one!
"My citroen won't start" (lucasboechat)
03/07/2017 at 15:12, STARS: 0
Umwelt Zone sounds like a shitty German Eco-theme park.
Anyway, here is what I think:
Buy a Euro 4 and you will never ever sell it, and if you do, the depreciation hit will be massive. No one will want a car they can’t drive.
Buy a Euro 6 car, albeit with a higher price and you won’t have that problem in the near future.
Get a Petrol and save money on the long run. Especially with the probability of raised taxes on diesel fuel for things other than LKWs
"AndyG_UK" (ajg1974)
03/07/2017 at 15:13, STARS: 0
No, I sold my last diesel car 4 years ago and said back then that it would be my last and their days are numbered.........
I now have a Euro 6 compliant petrol (Leon 1.8tsi DSG) and an BEV BMW i3 winging it’s way to the dealer now. I would not be buying any diesel car now unless I really needed one due to doing huge (like 30k a year) mileage and it was old, cheap and ready to be chucked in the bin in a couple of years.
"Klaus Schmoll" (klausschmoll)
03/07/2017 at 15:13, STARS: 2
“lower your average cruising speed”
"Klaus Schmoll" (klausschmoll)
03/07/2017 at 15:17, STARS: 0
Or wait a little longer until diesel prices have tanked? Soo many variables...
"My citroen won't start" (lucasboechat)
03/07/2017 at 15:19, STARS: 0
I think that if they want to phase diesels out, the tendency is for artificial overtaxation.
"My citroen won't start" (lucasboechat)
03/07/2017 at 15:19, STARS: 0
I think that if they want to phase diesels out, the tendency is for artificial overtaxation.
"punkgoose17" (punkgoose17)
03/07/2017 at 15:24, STARS: 0
It sounds like a petrol car would be best for you.
As someone who worked for a diesel engine manufacturer Euro 5 engines are very clean and should not be excluded. (Euro 5 and EPA 2010 I consider clean. Euro 4 and EPA 2007 I consider dirty.)
"Klaus Schmoll" (klausschmoll)
03/07/2017 at 15:35, STARS: 0
That’s the thing! It makes no sense to include Euro 5 if they aren’t going to crack down on all diesel engines eventually. Euro 4 and lower I can understand, but 5 was only introduced in 2014, so we are talking rather new cars that still hold some residual value. Turning them almost worthless by the stroke of a pen will hit some owners very hard.
"fintail" (fintail)
03/07/2017 at 15:52, STARS: 0
Are vintage cars exempt? A little (OK, massively) on the slow side, but still with diesel goodness:
"Klaus Schmoll" (klausschmoll)
03/07/2017 at 16:01, STARS: 0
Yes they are, but I want something that can cover long distances in as little time as possible while giving me modern comfort and safety.
"punkgoose17" (punkgoose17)
03/07/2017 at 16:05, STARS: 1
It is politics and political decisions there is no sense behind most things.
The diesel ban sounds like it will hurt a lot of people financially.
"fintail" (fintail)
03/07/2017 at 16:12, STARS: 0
Faster than a bicycle or Isetta, and quite safe for 1960, what more do want? (don’t say airbags, AC, etc) :)
Hopefully the greenies won’t win their war for some time yet, as alternative propulsion still needs to catch up.
"4kc" (4kc)
03/07/2017 at 16:12, STARS: 0
Here in Berlin I see 100s of cars without the sticker every day. I realize Berlin isn’t the rest of Germany but it really seems like it doesn’t matter...
What’s the fine for not having one?
"Svend" (svend)
03/07/2017 at 16:38, STARS: 0
We’ve the 1.4TSi ACT Skoda Superb. VW do the Passat in that engine as well as Golf’s and many others in the VAG range. They are great engines and don’t suffer from any lack of sufficient power, they are responsive enough for spirited driving, emissions are very low, etc...
"Klaus Schmoll" (klausschmoll)
03/07/2017 at 16:44, STARS: 1
Just a little too new for my tastes/budget, or maybe not. I’ll have to start this search all over again.
"Klaus Schmoll" (klausschmoll)
03/07/2017 at 16:45, STARS: 0
No word out yet, as they have still to introduce the laws.
"Klaus Schmoll" (klausschmoll)
03/07/2017 at 16:46, STARS: 0
Exactly!
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
03/07/2017 at 19:41, STARS: 0
While Euro 5 has far lower particulate matter emissions, NOx is another story in the real world.
http://www.theicct.org/blogs/staff/laboratory-versus-real-world-discrepancies-nox-emissions-eu
Mind you, many Euro 6 diesels have their problems in that department, too.
http://www.theicct.org/nox-control-technologies-euro-6-diesel-passenger-cars
My guess is that Euro 6c or possibly Euro 7 is going to be the requirement here.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
03/07/2017 at 19:43, STARS: 0
Although there’s Euro 6 engines without AdBlue, but yeah, you need a DPF to reach Euro 5 compliance.
"Svend" (svend)
03/08/2017 at 02:46, STARS: 0
I think the Golf ACT has been out longer than in other cars though so may be something older and a little cheaper.
But ye’, diesel is not being looked upon very favourably any longer. Even prior to dieselgate, some cities in the U.K. were wanting to stop them. Boris Johnson while mayor of London wanted to make it a fine able offence for diesel drivers to sit in traffic with their ignition on.
"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
03/08/2017 at 06:28, STARS: 0
The Netherlands is full of them. Oppo member Jobjoris had one, or at least had one.
"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
03/08/2017 at 06:30, STARS: 0
Have you thought about Autogas/LPG? I don’t know to what extend those BMW engines are LPG-friendly, but with LPG you have running costs lower than diesel (in NL, in D maybe on par) while using a gasoline engine. The tank will use up the space for your spare tire though. No Umweltzone issues, you’re using a gasoline engined car that’s burning cleaner than on actual gasoline. Engine oil stays clear longer.
Expect about €o.55 a liter at a random non-highway pump (that’s what I paid in Bavaria yesterday) and about 10% higher fuel consumption compared to gasoline due to the lower energy content per liter. I bet you can continue the math from there.
The biggest issue is that it burns fuel at a higher temperature and not every engine is equally suited to deal with that. My PSA engine is though. LPG since new (or within months of new), now at 17 years and almost 300k km on the odometer. I’ve had zero problems with my LPG system (bought the car at 167k km), although I have had the gasoline injectors cleaned as they tend to foul when you don’t run it on gasoline much. Mine only starts on gasoline and then switches over to LPG.
"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
03/08/2017 at 06:42, STARS: 0
Research them at your high Autobahn speeds as well. A high strung 1.4 TSI might be economical at 100 on cruise control, but how will it handle 200 on the Autobahn? That turbo must be blaring it’s lungs out, burning all the fuel.
(I’m merely speculating her)
"cberg" (cberg)
03/22/2017 at 01:15, STARS: 0
I’d really want a manual DriveE or loaded D4/5 or something. Base powertrains with lots of options are some of my favorite euro stuff.