by "Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
Published 03/06/2017 at 20:22
by "Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
Published 03/06/2017 at 20:22
No Tags
STARS: 3
A lot of praise and love exists for the E30 3 series but what if you want a new(er) car? Which new car best embodies the attributes of the venerable E30?
Pros: Similar size, shape, brand.
Cons: Expensive, more luxury than balanced, heavy
Pros: Balanced, great chassis, great value
Cons: Badge snobs protest, styling is subjective, poor greenhouse.
Pros: Balanced, old school fun, similar power and weight
Cons: little versatility, only two seats, can’t be primary car
Pros: heir to the throne, versatile, comfortable
Cons: junior got big and heavy, expensive, evolved too far from his great great grandfather
Which one would you pick? Which one best embodies the attributes of the E30? Or is there a better example not listed?
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/06/2017 at 20:24, STARS: 13
I think this is much closer than any of those
"themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles" (themanwithsauce)
03/06/2017 at 20:40, STARS: 7
Pros: Near identical weight and power to the E30 M3, Tail slides readily, ample cargo space, cheap running costs, 6-speed manual only, capable in nearly any situation you throw at it, quiet and unassuming to those who don’t know, an embarassment of riches to those who do
Cons: FWD, rear seat is cramped with tall people in the front, plastic quality ranges from acceptable to awful.
"gmctavish needs more space" (gmctavish)
03/06/2017 at 20:40, STARS: 5
I don’t think there’s any modern successor to the E30, it just isn’t possible anymore. I think a 1 Series would be the closest, the 2 Series doesn’t do it for me though. Still, the 1 doesn’t have the class of the E30, so it’s only close, still not a successor.
"Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies" (jordanwphillips)
03/06/2017 at 20:40, STARS: 4
Lightweight: Check
NA engine with good aftermarket: Check
RWD: Check
"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
03/06/2017 at 20:44, STARS: 0
It was really between that and the miata for the lightweight RWD two seater. Figured the miata was the better example.
"gmctavish needs more space" (gmctavish)
03/06/2017 at 20:46, STARS: 2
Now I want to see a four door 86 with a bigger trunk
"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo)
03/06/2017 at 20:47, STARS: 0
Everytime I see a Euro market 3 door Fiesta ST I cry a bit.
"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
03/06/2017 at 20:48, STARS: 1
Good choice! For me the FWD really takes it out of the running.
"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
03/06/2017 at 21:09, STARS: 2
It would win if that existed.
"themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles" (themanwithsauce)
03/06/2017 at 21:22, STARS: 1
Honestly I see no downside to the 5 door. I think the 2 door fiesta looks weird and the doors for entry keeps people from climbing over your seats to get in the back. It is so practical and effortlessly swallows cargo and people. Such a great car for the price.
"Tazio, Count Fouroff" (tazio0625)
03/06/2017 at 21:30, STARS: 0
How much newer?
Of mainstream cars available in USA, probably BMW 318ti or 128i would be closest
imo F30 3-Series probably is more like an older 5- or 7-Series (like E23) than it is E30 or E21
"itranthelasttimeiparkedit" (itranthelasttimeiparkedit)
03/06/2017 at 21:43, STARS: 1
I really really really want a 135i. My next car will have an n54, but I can’t decide between 135i coupe, 335is convertible or 535i. I have 2 kids so the 5 series makes the most sense..
"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
03/06/2017 at 21:55, STARS: 0
If you can still get it with a warranty, it counts.
"gmctavish needs more space" (gmctavish)
03/06/2017 at 22:14, STARS: 0
Yeah I can’t imagine a 1 Series being good with kids. Why not an E90 sedan or touring?
"themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles" (themanwithsauce)
03/06/2017 at 22:39, STARS: 1
And yet......does it really? How many E30s are doing powerslides on a regular basis? Outside of doing drift events, how big of a negative is the FWD layout? I can’t do a big, showy drift like an LS swapped 240 or E30 can, but at the local track night every month I’m usually the most sideways person on the track. THere is a certain manic hilarity to a tiny little FWD hatchback scampering through turns sideways at 50+ mph among “serious” track metal like Audi S4s and Mustang GTs.
If you’ve never driven one, try and borrow someone’s FiST who has replaced the tires. The stock 140 treadwear rubber is amazing, yes, but taking it down to 300+ on some ultra high performance summer rubber lets its character shine. Just like the 86, you can slide the back end whenever you want. Yes, you do it by a different technical effort but when you’re merging onto an on ramp with your friend in a GT86 and you both crank your wheels and kick the asses out, the bystanders who call the cops n you won’t specify that you’re doing a FWD version of oversteer. It really is a very lively chassis. And if you want to discount it for being FWD, then you’re missing out.
"itranthelasttimeiparkedit" (itranthelasttimeiparkedit)
03/06/2017 at 22:44, STARS: 0
I want the n54 so I can do chip and all that fun stuff. Can’t get it in a touring, and this is stupid but I HATE the tail lights on the e90 sedan (love the coupe ones though)
"gmctavish needs more space" (gmctavish)
03/06/2017 at 22:48, STARS: 0
Ah fair enough. Well I guess that does leave you with a 535i when it comes to practical bimmers with N54s
"itranthelasttimeiparkedit" (itranthelasttimeiparkedit)
03/06/2017 at 22:49, STARS: 1
Yeah thats kind of what I’m thinking. I also just sold my e60 and now have an e39 soooooooo
"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
03/06/2017 at 23:52, STARS: 0
While you aren’t wrong in any of your points, a front engined FWD car can’t really be the successor to a front engined RWD car because they aren’t the same thing.
It’s not about going sideways, or lap times, or horsepower. It’s about which modern car best embodies the attributes of the E30 and an attribute of the E30 is RWD.
"TheBimmerGuyWhoNowOwnsAChevy" (thebimmerguy)
03/07/2017 at 00:51, STARS: 0
It would have to be a roadster of some sort, small light and nimble. Everything else would be or feel too heavy. Though the e30 and 28 were admittedly not that light either.
"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
03/07/2017 at 05:28, STARS: 0
E36?
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
03/07/2017 at 05:54, STARS: 0
Still, it’s possible for a FWD car to better embody the E30's attributes than any RWD car on the market today...
That said, which E30 are we using? Because if it’s a 318i, maybe the BRZ/86 is a better choice for the list than the Miata?
"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo)
03/07/2017 at 07:01, STARS: 0
I get they a 5 door is technically practical, it’s just not what I want.
"nerd_racing" (nerd189)
03/07/2017 at 07:10, STARS: 2
I’ve got to say the BMW 128i is the spiritual successor. NA Inline 6 and handling to boot. Smallest in it’s day in the BMW lineup. forget warranties.
"spngr311" (spngr311-1)
03/07/2017 at 09:43, STARS: 1
The BRZ can easily be a daily and is much more practical than the Miata. However, it would only compare to an E30 coupe.
"Tom G" (tntomek)
03/07/2017 at 10:03, STARS: 0
I have a e90 sedan with the pre face-lift ugly lights. It was too good of a deal to pass up at the time but I promise you I hated those lights more than you. Like anything in life I got used to it, still own the car, and while it’s “just a 3 series” I love driving it. Post face-lift lights look 10 times better. Another thing to consider is you can do pre to poslift co version with csl trunk
"Grindintosecond" (Grindintosecond)
03/07/2017 at 10:09, STARS: 0
My opinion disagrees with this. Just the nature of having a f/r platform placed above the driving dynamics the e30 gave us can take a spiritual driving successor out of the running. What did the e30 do for the driver? Is that not one of the most important values to place on a modern drivers car? Let’s not forget its reliability and solid build quality as well that adds to the drivers feel. Are we so sure it can be replaced?
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/07/2017 at 11:24, STARS: 0
But 3/4 cars you chose were all two door....
"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
03/07/2017 at 11:56, STARS: 1
I mean, I didn’t really pick one to win. I was saying that if there was a four door BRZ, I wouldn’t be asking this question in the first place lol.
"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
03/07/2017 at 11:59, STARS: 0
You make a good point, there really isn’t a right answer because of all the variants of the E30. BRZ/86 is a good choice for the coupe
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/07/2017 at 12:04, STARS: 0
Oh I see what you meant.
"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
03/07/2017 at 12:27, STARS: 0
I’m not sure it can, and all of these suggestions make strong arguments as E30 successors but the sheer variety of engine and body options mixed with the sublime chassis of the E30 really does seem to be a unicorn in automotive history.
"RT" (rt-p)
03/07/2017 at 13:20, STARS: 0
I don’t understand the Camaro comparison since it focuses more on power than chassis dynamics. Yeah, it handles well, but it’s still super heavy and not built with the same quality and materials. So I’d say the 2 series, or any other modern small RWD lightweight luxury saloon is closer.
"RT" (rt-p)
03/07/2017 at 13:20, STARS: 2
I don’t understand the Camaro comparison since it focuses more on power than chassis dynamics. Yeah, it handles well, but it’s still super heavy and not built with the same quality and materials. So I’d say the 2 series, or any other modern small RWD lightweight luxury saloon is closer.
"jasmits" (jasmits)
03/07/2017 at 14:27, STARS: 1
As a 318ti owner with a decent amount of E30 seat-time(good friend’s 325es) I agree that it embodies a ton of the E30 attributes but it really couldn’t be called a modern car. Over the E30 it adds airbags, better safety features and..? It really doesn’t have that many more creature comforts.
For perspective my 1998 318ti(second to newest US model year) is going on 20 years old which means it’s almost 10 years closer in age to my buddy’s 1987 325es than it is to a new 3-series(okay, 2-series) rolling off the line.
"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
03/07/2017 at 15:11, STARS: 1
It weighs the same as a comparable 2 series, has beaten modern BMW coupes in recent comparisons, and its more expensive twin (the ATS) is a direct competitor to the 2 and 4 series.
That’s a base camaro pictured, no V8 for better chassis/power balance.
"RT" (rt-p)
03/07/2017 at 15:59, STARS: 1
Fair enough, it is around the same weight and the right sort of balance. Dynamically it seems like a good match, I was wrong.
But outside of the driving experience the similarities end. The E30 was a mid-size car, while the Camaro uses a pony car body like the Mustang - this makes it much larger on the outside and less practical if you’re moving around 4+ people and their junk.
Also the Camaro is not a luxury car, it still has a cheap interior and low quality plastics, while the E30 was designed to compete with luxury cars (e.g: 190E). The closest equivalent would be the ATS-V which is more of a modern M3 rival as you mentioned, and is still struggling with materials despite its excellent chassis.
So yeah, the Camaro has the spirit of the E30 but in a incredibly different package.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
03/07/2017 at 16:14, STARS: 0
5 is better anyway.
"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo)
03/07/2017 at 16:40, STARS: 1
I know it’s better, it’s just not what I want.
"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
03/07/2017 at 17:00, STARS: 1
Yeah, somehow GM found this secret sauce. It’s hard even for me as GM fan to really start taking them seriously lol
"Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies" (jordanwphillips)
03/07/2017 at 17:34, STARS: 0
Honestly, the all seasons I put on mine make it more fun, just a bit less fast in turns. That said, on turn in, I was bumper to bumper with an RS last weekend.
"pjhusa" (pjhuskinja)
03/07/2017 at 18:02, STARS: 1
I think of the 2. The similar size, shape, and it being the same brand all make me think so. However, “expensive” can also apply to the E30 when adjusted for inflation, and the 2 is still the cheapest new BMW on the market.
"RT" (rt-p)
03/07/2017 at 18:38, STARS: 1
I can take them seriously, just a few things for them to sort out first.
Either way they’ve made a yuge leap of progress in the past 10 years, that’s for sure.
"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
03/07/2017 at 19:02, STARS: 1
True, I honestly only marked the 2 series as expensive because of how it compares to the other contender’s prices.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
03/07/2017 at 21:09, STARS: 0
None of those. I like that your E30 example has four doors.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
03/07/2017 at 21:09, STARS: 1
Camaro =
Meh.
"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
03/07/2017 at 21:28, STARS: 0
I know most people praise the coupe because of the M3 but the sedan and wagon are higher on my personal list
"Grindintosecond" (Grindintosecond)
03/07/2017 at 22:22, STARS: 0
There are other horses that could have been unicorns. A good example is the Volvo 240, where iPd had enough bolt-on parts to stiffen the chassis to where it should have been, and work the suspension to where it could have been, and make it out-corner that E30 and upping the cloverleaf on-ramp speeds by 15mph easy. It was such an under engineered car.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
03/07/2017 at 22:39, STARS: 1
My favorite position to check out a sedan is the backseat. And I detest having to move the seat forward to get into the back. And coupe doors are always too long.
"AWD E30" (awde30)
03/08/2017 at 12:51, STARS: 0
I, meanwhile, like that is a Euro-spec iX!