by "Matt Nichelson" (whoismatt)
Published 03/06/2017 at 09:35
by "Matt Nichelson" (whoismatt)
Published 03/06/2017 at 09:35
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STARS: 1
Will the sale Opel and Vauxhall be good for both companies or bad? Obviously there is a short term and long term to this, so feel free to discuss one or both factors.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
03/06/2017 at 09:41, STARS: 2
It depends. Is PSA more likely than GM to revive the Opel RAK program 90 years later and make rocket cars instead of a stupid “Rak e” electric concept? Probably. 1% chance is way more than .1%. Net positive, IMHO.
"FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem" (fuelstratifiedinjection)
03/06/2017 at 09:47, STARS: 0
Probably a win-win for both sides I guess but it’s waaaay too soon to say anything.
I still have many open questions regarding the sale. What markets will PSA not be able to sell Opels? Will GM ever sell cars in larger numbers in Europe? Will Buick recieve the new Insignia aka Regal?
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
03/06/2017 at 09:50, STARS: 0
Their current cars are on GM platforms, so I’d guess that Buick continues down the road they are on while Vauxhall/Opel diverge.
With that in mind the most likely GM return to Europe/UK is with Buick.
"jimz" (jimz)
03/06/2017 at 09:51, STARS: 0
I can’t help but think this is a short-sighted decision. historically different regions are weak or strong at different times; in the past when GM NA was weak, GM Europe was doing OK.
but with GM being relatively huge in China, maybe they think they don’t need Europe anymore.
we shall see.
"djmt1" (djmt1)
03/06/2017 at 09:53, STARS: 0
This is so weird. I still don’t get why PSA bought GM’s Euro business. They don’t need the added capacity and they pretty much compete in every segment already. As for Opel and Vauxhall, I don’t see how they’re going to turn Opel around. Vauxhall is in a incredibly strong position in the UK market and their factories are some of the most efficient in Europe but Opel is an almighty mess.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
03/06/2017 at 09:55, STARS: 0
I visited Opel in Thuringen back in 2009. Nobody there seemed to have a clear idea what future certainty of things was going to be... though obviously that was a period of more-than-usual turmoil.
"facw" (facw)
03/06/2017 at 09:55, STARS: 0
It will be interesting to know the terms of the non-compete. It sounded like they were hung up on whether Opel could sell in China, but it would be interesting to know if there are restrictions on what GM can do in Europe, or what PSA can do in the US.
"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
03/06/2017 at 09:56, STARS: 0
Well, there’s always
Sniff Petrol
’s take on the matter...
"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
03/06/2017 at 09:59, STARS: 1
The Buick name is completely unknown so good luck with that one. They’ve already tried Chevrolet, another unknown name, and that didn’t go well.
It takes a long time to establish a new brand. Ask Lexus, they’ve been trying for decades. Or Infiniti.
"facw" (facw)
03/06/2017 at 10:03, STARS: 1
I tend to agree, but one possibility is that with rising nationalism, this gives them an English and a German brand which might be more appealing to consumers in those countries than the French ones. Probably especially true in the UK where Brexit negotiations are going to get ugly, leading to additional resentment of the continent.
"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
03/06/2017 at 10:04, STARS: 0
At least one of GM’s UK factories will go. PSA have to realise economies of scale and that means a mass issue of P45s somewhere. Politically, it’s easier to do this in the UK than in France or Germany. This won’t work well for the UK Government which has got itself into a Brexit frenzy and can’t have factory closures being blamed on this so they’ll offer incentives so as to push the ball down the road a bit but long term it’ll happen.
Similarly Ford will bale out of Bridgend.
"Stapleface" (patrickgruden)
03/06/2017 at 10:07, STARS: 0
Probably better for PSA than GM. I thought a good deal of the Buicks being sold in the US were a Vauxhall or Opel derivative.
I say this will hurt GM as they’re just going to go back to the shit they were doing when they had Olds and Pontiac and just making one car and rebadging it to other brands.
"FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem" (fuelstratifiedinjection)
03/06/2017 at 10:14, STARS: 0
I highly doubt GM will ever see a successful return to Europe in the next decades to be honest. The European market is too crowded and saturated and very demanding. Cadillac has had more relaunches in Europe than I can count on my fingers in the last 15 years without ever selling in any significant numbers. Chevrolet’s imagine is beyond broken or simply not existant and other GM brands are unknown of.
"FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem" (fuelstratifiedinjection)
03/06/2017 at 10:15, STARS: 0
At least Infiniti and Lexus try with own dedicated dealerships and diesel engines.
"FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem" (fuelstratifiedinjection)
03/06/2017 at 10:19, STARS: 0
One thing is for sure - PSA will not sell Opels in China and the USA, at least not those on GM platforms. But I guess Citroens, Peugeots and DS’ will. To be honest I don’t really see PSA returning to the USA, maybe the DS brand but I doubt it. The Russian and Indian markets could be interesting.
"djmt1" (djmt1)
03/06/2017 at 10:20, STARS: 0
Well from an economic standpoint it makes no sense closing down a Vauxhall plant over 1 of the 12 underperforming Opel plants. Plus if Brexit does result in tariffs for cars (which I highly doubt) having production capacity in Europe’s second biggest car market is surely advantageous for Europe’s second biggest manufacturer.
Plus from PSA themselves: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/live/2017/mar/06/vauxhall-opel-sold-jobs-deal-aberdeen-standard-live-business-live
As I said Opel are a mess and if the factories do indeed need to prove their worth then Vauxhall are gonna have a lot less to prove over Opel.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
03/06/2017 at 10:21, STARS: 0
“Most likely”. That’s there for a reason.
In comparison with Chevrolet:
- An “I’ve never heard about this before” google of Buick will bring up connections to Vauxhall/Opel and more upscale cars as opposed to Chevrolet which will get you pickups and rebadged Daewoo’s. One is a distinctly better fit.
- Their styling is already mostly Euro design.
Chevy and Caddy have already pretty much burned their bridges across the pond. If GM wants back in, their options are:
- Try and repair the brand image of Chevrolet or Cadillac. That’s gonna be a tough sell. Easier for Cadillac than Chevrolet perhaps, but even if they’re successful there’s already so much competition in that bracket from the Germans it’s going to be hard to turn a worthwhile profit. Bear in mind this is the bracket that Lexus and Infiniti are fighting over as well.
- Start an entirely new brand. Even harder to pull off.
- Bring over GMC. *snicker*
- Bring over Buick. They’ll be starting in Europe from scratch the way Chevrolet, Cadillac, Lexus and Infiniti had to, but they’re not BMW/Caddy/Lexus/Infiniti competition (except perhaps for the smallest of the Lexus range). They’re currently positioning themselves as somewhat upscale—think between Toyota/Lexus, or VW/Audi. That should give them a little more of a blank state to work with. And finally, they’re selling decent cars, not rebadged pieces of shit like the Aveo.
TL;DR if GM really wants Euro sales Buick makes by far the most sense and that’s all I meant.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
03/06/2017 at 10:23, STARS: 1
All I’m saying is that if GM wants Euro sales Buick is by far their best bet. Less bad history on that side of the pond, (ex)Euro connections, Euro styling and more white space to work with due to their brand positioning.
http://oppositelock.kinja.com/most-likely-that-s-there-for-a-reason-in-comparison-1793004456
"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
03/06/2017 at 11:18, STARS: 0
Wait and see.
I don’t see tariffs coming either, not least because the UK is in the somewhat unusual position of exporting most of the cars it makes and importing most of those it buys. Retaliatory tariffs would just mean Toyota, Honda and Nissan pulling out.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
03/06/2017 at 11:19, STARS: 1
Oh, well done.
"pip bip - choose Corrour" (hhgttg69)
03/07/2017 at 06:40, STARS: 1
bad.
"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
03/07/2017 at 09:13, STARS: 0
The only cars Buick currently offers that would be competitive in significant market niches in Europe are rebadged Opels. With Opel gone the influx of competitive-in-Europe cars into Buick is also gone.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
03/07/2017 at 09:23, STARS: 0
It’s not gone until the next generation ditches all the connections. For the moment they remain Opels in new suits.
And for the fourth time, all I’m saying is IF GM has ANY intention AT ALL of a return to the Euro market, BUICK IS THEIR BEST OPTION. That’s it. I’m not saying it would work or wouldn’t work. I’m not saying it’s going to happen. I’m not even saying they
should
go down that trail. I’m saying that if they
want
a piece of that pie it’s got to be through Buick. The other bridges are burned.