by "AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
Published 03/03/2017 at 19:41
by "AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
Published 03/03/2017 at 19:41
No Tags
STARS: 9
None of us are invincible. A good friend of mine lost his twenty year old younger brother last week in a terrible wreck. It was a single car accident. The younger sibling was driving his older brother’s modified Volvo s60 t5, a car he had driven occasionally, roughly 300hp through the front wheels. Investigators said he was going about 20 mph over the speed limit in a 45 zone and lost control. That’s not some outlandish number by any means. I’m sure the vast majority of us have sped much more than that, daily even, for some.
Feeling a bit disconnected at the moment, but what I’m trying to say is be safe. I’m the last person to tell you to drive conservatively on the street, but consider signing up for performance driving classes so if you do ever lose control, you’ll have a better chance of making it through to the next day. If you have young drivers in your household, the same thing goes. Make sure they know proper recovery techniques. Kids will do dumb things. You won’t be able to stop that, so it’s better to increase the safety aspect as much as you can. Be safe, try to use good judgment. Let’s keep these kinds of stories from happening
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
03/03/2017 at 19:47, STARS: 6
not to be THAT guy, but am I the only one who is VERY skeptical that he was doing 65MPH? thats a LOT of damage to that car.
EDIT: either the speeds were WAY higher then 65mph, or that car was severely rotted to the point of being unsafe. sad to find out the hard way...
"Amoore100" (amoore100)
03/03/2017 at 19:49, STARS: 1
To know that not even a Volvo saved him. May he rest in peace, and to all those out there, drive safely, be conscientious, and never try to put more than 250hp through the front wheels of a P2 car. My sincere condolences.
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
03/03/2017 at 19:52, STARS: 0
That’s what the investigator said. I agree, it’s a ton of damage, but there were no long skid marks, it looked liked like there was maybe 10 ft between where he lost it and collided with the pole. Just enough time to spin slightly and go over the hydrant
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
03/03/2017 at 19:53, STARS: 0
My first thought as well. A fairly modern Volvo at that. Got me thinking about a full cage instead of just the rollbar
"Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies" (jordanwphillips)
03/03/2017 at 19:54, STARS: 1
I’ve seen the aftermath of a car doing 75 and meeting a tree sideways. Killed the driver. This is worse. Either Volvo safety is a bullshit myth, or he was doing 100+.
"E90M3" (e90m3)
03/03/2017 at 19:54, STARS: 0
Don’t some ECUs store things like speed in them in case of a crash? Kind of like an airplane black box.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/03/2017 at 19:55, STARS: 0
I am so sorry. That must be a horrible feeling to have. My condolences.
"Berang" (berang)
03/03/2017 at 19:57, STARS: 0
They did hit a metal pole and not a tree. If the car was doing 75+ it wouldn’t be even recognizably car shaped after hitting a pole like that.
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
03/03/2017 at 19:57, STARS: 0
maybe some newer ones... this is at best, a 8 year old volvo, so i doubt it.
EDIT: it might store WHEEL speed. in which case, yes, he was doing way more then 65 at impact
"Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies" (jordanwphillips)
03/03/2017 at 19:57, STARS: 1
A tree gives less than that pole. A lot less.
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
03/03/2017 at 19:58, STARS: 1
agreed. or the car was rotted beyond belief.
"Berang" (berang)
03/03/2017 at 19:58, STARS: 0
No, rather, it is in pretty good shape for 65mph. That’s a metal pole, a very small contact area on a side of the car that doesn’t have much ability to absorb impact.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
03/03/2017 at 19:59, STARS: 0
That’s pretty much what I’d expect from 65 mph into a pole with a small frontal area. 65 mph impacts with stationary, metal object generally result in lots of damage. Cars tend to immolate at higher speeds.
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
03/03/2017 at 20:00, STARS: 0
i’ve seen the aftermath of 60mph sideways into a pole. the car was not bent completely around the pole.
"Berang" (berang)
03/03/2017 at 20:02, STARS: 1
65 in a 45 zone though is frankly insane. Especially as it appears to have been in wet conditions.
"Berang" (berang)
03/03/2017 at 20:03, STARS: 0
A tree of equal diameter to the pole? No fucking way.
"E90M3" (e90m3)
03/03/2017 at 20:03, STARS: 0
It probably has an electronic speed sensor, and it has ABS, so yeah it should know each wheel speed.
"PowderHound" (PowderHound)
03/03/2017 at 20:08, STARS: 0
Hope this doesn’t come off as dickish but: I’m really surprised how toasted that Volvo got (thought they were a lot tougher) and that is the most “wrapped around a telephone pole” I have ever seen in my life
"Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies" (jordanwphillips)
03/03/2017 at 20:09, STARS: 1
That pole is hollow, a tree isn’t. I’ve yet to see a tree of that size or larger be taken out by a car. You are severely underestimating the strength of a tree.
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
03/03/2017 at 20:10, STARS: 0
I’m not condoning it by any means. Just, food for thought I guess. I drive on this road every day where the accident occurred. No blind spots, hairpins, or sudden elevation changes. It’s a well maintained two lane road with a bit of runoff, and infrequent drivers at night.
The way I see it, it’s a more tragic version of all those Mustang drivers who lose control at meets. Lots of healthy enthusiasm which is great, but not enough experience. Throw in a few dumb decisions and roll the dice. He got snake eyes
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
03/03/2017 at 20:12, STARS: 0
Either it had some underlying issues, or it was just hit in the absolute worst way. Yeah I was absolutely shocked at the damage. Makes you wonder what it would have done to a similar car from the same period that didn’t have the vaunted Volvo safety heritage
"Berang" (berang)
03/03/2017 at 20:16, STARS: 0
A utility pole is solid wood (and larger in diameter) and you will find no shortage of incidents of those being knocked over or broke with a LOT less damage to the vehicle than is present in the picture in the original post.
"someassemblyrequired" (someassemblyrequired)
03/03/2017 at 20:18, STARS: 1
Condolences to your friend. Agree 1000% with your last paragraph - when I had my learner’s permit and it snowed, Dad would take me out to an empty parking lot near our house and make me put the car into skids and recover. Those lessons were tons of fun and have saved my ass way more times than I care to admit. Just knowing when things are starting to get to the edge is such a helpful skill for a young driver. If you don’t have the stomach to teach your teen these skills, you need to sign them up for an HPDE class. Way cheaper than your medical deductible or a funeral, and you’ll have a much safer, saner driver.
"jimz" (jimz)
03/03/2017 at 20:23, STARS: 0
those are also dried wood.
"Berang" (berang)
03/03/2017 at 20:26, STARS: 0
It’s also dried wood and not steel.
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
03/03/2017 at 20:28, STARS: 1
This is very sad and I’m sorry for your friends loss. When I was a young buck I did a lot of stupid shit in my Datsun 240z and I’m surprised I lived through it all. One thing that made me do a gut check was seeing a similar 260z in a junk yard cut in half behind the drivers door after going sideways and hitting a wooden power pole.
This Volvo is much safer than a Z any day. I would guess the damage is so serious because the car is designed for a larger object impact than a pole, that basically cut through the frame.
"Cash Rewards" (cashrewards)
03/03/2017 at 20:37, STARS: 2
There was a fatal accident two blocks from my house with a driver going slower in a Mazda hitting a tree the diameter of a utility pole. Tree is missing some bark, next to no damage to the underlying trunk. A living tree with an established root system holding it in place is not to be fucked with.
"" (bignslow)
03/03/2017 at 20:41, STARS: 0
To take out a fire hydrant and a telephone pole in a Volvo of all cars and have a car look like that I think you would have to be moving pretty good.
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
03/03/2017 at 20:44, STARS: 0
Didn’t even think of that, could certainly explain how bad it looks. I know the feeling. Still young, but there’s a rollbar-soon to be halfcage-going in my miata in hopes of adding a bit of protection
"Berang" (berang)
03/03/2017 at 20:47, STARS: 0
Of course not. And generally, a light pole should break off its mount, but as this photo shows this one for some reason didn’t, and a steel tube is stronger than wood. If it were the other way around they’d still be making bicycles out of wood.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
03/03/2017 at 20:51, STARS: 0
I’ve seen 60 mph around a pole that looked exactly like this. Here’s 80 around a tree (I know a tree is stronger). Much worse. Accident investigators know how fast people are driving. You’re eyeballing I over the internet is less accurate. As if the guys speed was the point of the post.
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
03/03/2017 at 20:52, STARS: 1
That Z I had was a bit faster than a Miata with some scary handling at higher speeds. I would have preferred a Miata at the time.
"Cash Rewards" (cashrewards)
03/03/2017 at 20:55, STARS: 0
Yeah, I see your point, but think strength to weight ratios are coming into play with that. But without a list of hardnesses in front of us to legitimately compare solid wood to hollow steel, we’re speculating. Point is, let’s take it to the track (or autocross course).
"415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)" (415s30)
03/03/2017 at 21:10, STARS: 1
Nothing can take a pole side on at a great speed, it’s just not possible without weighing a lot. We have all been stupid, perhaps in Zs.... Now that I am somewhat older I don’t push it anywhere populated or with many obstacles.
"415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)" (415s30)
03/03/2017 at 21:13, STARS: 1
Yeah some people get to have a close call and reflect, but it doesn’t always work that way. When I was in high school I was caught out and luckily drifted up an embankment and came within a foot of the concrete wall that was part of the onramp to the highway next to us. I had a little thought after that. The grip is not always what you think, gravel spilled on a turn... could be anything.
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
03/03/2017 at 21:14, STARS: 0
Well I grew up in rural Montana so there wasn’t much to run into.
"415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)" (415s30)
03/03/2017 at 21:20, STARS: 1
Yeah, I learned to drive near Red Lodge, and way out on some land my dad has. A big ditch is not a good thing either! Lots of trees in the Beartooth Mts. We have an 83 Subaru manual sedan, still runs, I used to go out on some roads and Swede it.
"cluelessk" (cluelessk)
03/03/2017 at 21:23, STARS: 0
Lost a friend about a month ago. He was 20 also.
Went to pass a semi in bad conditions and hit an oncoming truck.
It’s a weird feeling losing someone.
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
03/03/2017 at 21:42, STARS: 1
Mind if I chime in as someone who competes in a sport where it’s not unusual for cars to hit all the things being discussed? Jordan’s right, trees don’t give a fuck (depending on the species, of course). Both the metal utility pole the Volvo hit, and the wooden utility poles you posted are designed to yield when impacted by a car. Trees, on the other hand, do not break nearly as easily, and with their extensive root balls anchoring them in place they do not move either.
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"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
03/03/2017 at 21:44, STARS: 0
It really is. For most people around you life goes on as it always did, but for you there’s this absence that stays for a long time
"Berang" (berang)
03/03/2017 at 21:55, STARS: 0
Yes, but if you noticed, for whatever reason the metal light pole didn’t break off its mount like they’re supposed to, and given that a steel tube IS stronger than solid wood of the same diameter...
We literally have people looking a photo of a car wrapped around a metal pole, and thinking that if they had been going 65mph it wouldn’t have happened to them. Well it happened.
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
03/03/2017 at 22:09, STARS: 0
It didn’t break, but it did clearly bend/deform. I’ve seen smaller trees than that pole hit by cars doing well over 65 and aside from a little missing bark the tree showed little to no sign of damage. Also, again, you’re comparing the strength of steel to the strength of dead wood. Live wood is completely different. The two have very different properties, much like how you can take a long dead wooden stick and easily break it in your hands, but a fresh branch of the same size is nearly impossible.
"Berang" (berang)
03/03/2017 at 22:14, STARS: 0
Well whatever, as long as everybody is happy knowing they can safely crash into steel poles at 65mph and not get hurt, we can wrap this up.
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
03/03/2017 at 22:27, STARS: 0
Dude, that’s not what I’m saying at all and you know it. Both are very, very bad.
"wafflesnfalafel" (wafflesnfalafel1)
03/03/2017 at 22:33, STARS: 0
That is a about a mile from my place. They had the road closed for hours. Honestly, we were trying to figure out how the dude was going as fast as he was - it’s kind of at the top of a curving incline without a lot of run up space. He must have really been on it to be going as fast as he was. Had to be absolutely flying to wrap that Volvo completely around the pole....
"Berang" (berang)
03/03/2017 at 22:44, STARS: 1
yeah but follow the thread... it’s all “no way a car would look like that at only 65mph! that’s just a pole!”
I’ve seen cars look a lot worse after sliding into things at lower speeds.
"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
03/03/2017 at 22:48, STARS: 0
Now that’s an area we can agree on
"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
03/03/2017 at 23:00, STARS: 0
About the same distance away as well. I heard about the road closure and fatal crash a few days before realizing who it was. Funny thing is he never had much of a lead foot. His brother was the crazy one.
That said, the engine had just been put in after being rebuilt for heavy boost at a local machining shop. It had about 300hp on the stock engine... The car was an absolute blast, but definitely not easy to handle. Think older 911 crossed with a tuned mazdaspeed3 and you’ve got the right idea
"E92M3" (E46M3)
03/03/2017 at 23:28, STARS: 0
That’s horrible. Just too many unknown variables to play around on the street.
Cars really don’t hold up well to trees or poles. I saw a newer Lexus get T-boned at probably 40 mph this week, and it hardly compromised the cabin structure. Had it been a tree or pole, it would be a lot different outcome for the passenger.
"cluelessk" (cluelessk)
03/04/2017 at 01:44, STARS: 0
Full cage in a street car is a bad idea unless you feel like wearing a helmet all the time.
"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
03/04/2017 at 05:57, STARS: 0
Jesus. Thoughts out to his family and everyone around him.
On the subject of driving training, I’ve found that getting into karting at least slightly (especially at a track that’s frequently wet) has saved me a few times now. Because they’re so spin-happy, the motions to catch a spin get ingrained on the instinctive level pretty quickly. Twice now I’ve had hairy moments when I’ve been going a bit too quickly, one in my Jag and one in my MG, that I’ve caught before I’ve consciously realised what was happening.
If I hadn’t been karting and drilled in that countersteer response, I’m fairly certain that little conscious delay would have ended me on both occasions.