by "Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
Published 03/03/2017 at 14:15
by "Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
Published 03/03/2017 at 14:15
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STARS: 1
Today on “What idiotic fucking engineering decision did Ford make this time”. Brake rotors. What in the HELL is this crap? I’ve been looking into how to replace the front wheel bearings on my ‘86 fox body and what little info I could find on the procedure was “Remove the bearings from the hub. If they’re scored, hammer out the races and replace the races”. Ok, that’s well and good. Ordered new bearings just in time for them to get here tomorrow. Then today I remember that my brake rotors seemed warped, so I go to buy new ones and...
The brake rotor, hub, bearing, and studs are ALL ONE FUCKING PIECE?! With new races already installed?! So now I’m waiting until next week to get the Mustang done but on the plus side all I have to do is assemble/pack the new bearings into the rotors and then slap it on the car, no pressing in/out needed.
"OKcarburetor" (okcarburetor)
03/03/2017 at 14:19, STARS: 4
It’s not just Fords. A lot of older cars are like that.
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
03/03/2017 at 14:19, STARS: 1
http://oppositelock.kinja.com/thank-you-gm-so-much-for-this-1788288969
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
03/03/2017 at 14:22, STARS: 1
This used to be a really common thing. Called a hub rotor, or similar. The first-gen Mustangs with discs started out this way, as did most manufacturers starting out with discs in the 60s. Drums used to be this way too, as often as not. The manufacturers who *didn’t* start out with hub rotors because they had separate drums in the existing hub style very often changed the machining process on the existing hub so that they could stick a disc on the *BACK*. This is bad for a whole bunch of other reasons. At least hub rotors have a weight advantage.
You are correct that the Foxbody is a little outdated in that respect. The contemporary F150 was the same way.
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
03/03/2017 at 14:22, STARS: 0
The once piece nature is goofy, but pressing/removing hub bearings aint so bad. I did it on the cruiser with a free bearing driver kit rental from oriely. Easy peasy.
"MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
03/03/2017 at 14:22, STARS: 2
Thanks for running into that pile of BS before I did.
Good heads up, thanks for looking out haha
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
03/03/2017 at 14:26, STARS: 1
Yeah, bearings can be frustrating *tap* *tap* *tap**tap* shit.....*replace* *tap* *tap* *tap* *tap* *tap* *clinking-ing-ing-ing*
DAMNIT SO CLOSE!!!
It’s not hard though, but maybe mine have been simple.
"Urambo Tauro" (urambotauro)
03/03/2017 at 14:26, STARS: 3
Another good reason for that SN95 spindle swap. ;)
"CobraJoe" (cobrajoe)
03/03/2017 at 14:29, STARS: 1
This is why having your brakes turned was a very popular thing to do, more material, more weight, more cost to buy new rotors if you didn’t need them.
You could always upgrade to the new style 2 piece hub and rotor, but that would also require changing the spindle, the lower control arm (depending on the year you steal parts from), caliper, and brake hose (which for some reason uses a different size banjo bolt).
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
03/03/2017 at 14:31, STARS: 0
Meanwhile my Buick had hubs that bolt on and rotors that slip over the studs. Got a rachet? Replace all your shit in 5 minutes.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
03/03/2017 at 14:32, STARS: 1
Not too long ago I could get rotors turned for $7 each at a local auto store. They got pushed out by Advance and Autozone, sadly.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
03/03/2017 at 14:32, STARS: 0
I’m not even mad at the extra cost, I’m mad I can’t get this damn thing done this weekend. What a shit piece of engineering.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
03/03/2017 at 14:33, STARS: 1
Honda still does this BS IIRC
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
03/03/2017 at 14:34, STARS: 0
Most, if not all, old American cars are this way on the front hubs. Detroit continued to use this kind of a front hub set up on 2WD trucks well into the 90's.
"Party-vi" (party-vi)
03/03/2017 at 14:37, STARS: 0
Here’s the captive rotor setup on the Willys. Because I had Drum hubs on it previously my rotors did not seat flush against the back of the hub, so they had runout issues. I have to replace them, which means taking the hubs off my axle. The good new is at this point I can assemble a Dana 30 hub assembly and seat the bearings with my eyes closed.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
03/03/2017 at 14:38, STARS: 0
There’s a reason my Ranchero has GM A-body caliper setup with its conversion and not Mustang/Granada discs.
"MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
03/03/2017 at 14:39, STARS: 0
TRUTH
got a rear axle disc to disc sitting around as well?
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
03/03/2017 at 14:47, STARS: 0
Hey! That looks familiar! Same ones are found on the Ranger and the Explorer.
"Urambo Tauro" (urambotauro)
03/03/2017 at 14:48, STARS: 0
I’m glad you asked. Come too think of it, I think I do have most of the parts for that swap. I know I have the brackets, but I definitely don’t have the calipers. I might even have an old pair of rear discs to go with it, but I’ll have to check the thickness later on and let you know.
"MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
03/03/2017 at 14:56, STARS: 0
Do you have the axles and rear diff? I can get new rotors no problem, it’s the whole axle/diff section where the money comes in.
"JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t" (jawzx2)
03/03/2017 at 14:58, STARS: 0
I think they fianlly quit in the late 90's... I think. I havn’t worked on a newer Honda product that wasn’t a motorycle. I know Hyundai kept doing it up until 2004(?).
"McMike" (mcmike)
03/03/2017 at 15:01, STARS: 0
My van is the same way. Change the rotors, press in new races and repack, preload, and adjust the bearings.
Which is why I live with that slight vibration.
"Urambo Tauro" (urambotauro)
03/03/2017 at 15:05, STARS: 0
Afraid not. I changed the brake stuff over when I rebuilt my axle. A full rebuild isn’t necessary for the swap, but you do have to open the cover and slide the axle-shafts out for a minute. It’s mildly inconvenient, but a good excuse to change the axle fluid.
"brianbrannon" (brianbrannon)
03/03/2017 at 15:11, STARS: 1
So, you are mad that less work is involved? BTW the bearings are not part of the rotor.
"Funktheduck" (funktheduck)
03/03/2017 at 15:12, STARS: 0
I think my truck is like that. I remember replacing the rotors in high school after a pad broke and the rivets dug into the rotor. Pretty easy to deal with if I remember correctly.
"If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent" (essextee)
03/03/2017 at 15:15, STARS: 0
My bearings are built into the hub. You have to replace the whole hub.
"MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
03/03/2017 at 15:16, STARS: 0
Hahaha no worries, I’m still just happy to take anything I can get.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
03/03/2017 at 15:18, STARS: 0
The bearing races are. I’m mad because it’s an idiotic way of doing it instead of making the bearing a part of the spindle like it is on pretty much every car ever except for GM who make the bearing a part of the hub that attaches with a few bolts.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
03/03/2017 at 15:18, STARS: 0
I like the way GM does it. The wheel hub is one unit. Bearing goes bad? Four bolts and a new hub is on.
"Aero" (Aero)
03/03/2017 at 15:25, STARS: 0
Uh, this isn’t just a Ford thing. Go change some Astro rotors, same story.
"nerd_racing" (nerd189)
03/03/2017 at 15:28, STARS: 2
Are you kidding me this is excellent. These type of bearings are EASY MODE. No press work, no worrying about hubs seized to the spindle, no striping the bolt heads because of rust. Just buy your new bearings, pack them with quality wheel bearing grease, pull the old one apart, clean it up, install the new inner bearing, install the new wheel seal, push the rotor on, slide on the new bearing, put on the washer, torque the spindle nut to spec, then probably back it off to some degree, slip on the castle washer and slip a new cotter pin through it. Bend it over, then pop on the dust cap.
"If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent" (essextee)
03/03/2017 at 15:31, STARS: 0
That’s how mine works. Except on the front axle one of the bolts is behind the strut with not enough room to get a wrench on.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
03/03/2017 at 15:34, STARS: 2
That’s a more modern way of doing that, and not only a GM thing. A more modern Ford is that way as well. Funny enough, I’m not a fan, because those assemblies can be susceptible to inner sleeve distortion from wrong axle nut torque, and the bearings used fail in a far more irritating way. Tapered rollers fo lyfe.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
03/03/2017 at 15:36, STARS: 0
My local NAPA and O’Reilly both maintain turning equipment, which runs me about $12 a rotor. For a lot of things the NAPA *was* the best as a function of being more independent, but new ownership has made me less happy going in - they seem to think it ought to be a Pep Boys.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
03/03/2017 at 15:39, STARS: 0
NAPA near me stopped cutting rotors, but they still do flywheels which is nice.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
03/03/2017 at 15:39, STARS: 2
I told him this used to be a completely standard way of doing things, but I’m not sure he’s listening. He needs to work on more old US iron.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
03/03/2017 at 15:42, STARS: 0
Mine probably would do a flywheel, but too many autos in the family apart from the old Rovers - haven’t tried them out. I’ve got a bit of flywheel work ahead for the Ranchero, but since that’s a weight-reduce and a re-pattern job, that’s just a leeeeetle bit beyond NAPA. At least, the closest one. I know of one not too far off that works with a machine shop for some things - got a Ford 172 industrial’s head rebuilt there.
"Urambo Tauro" (urambotauro)
03/03/2017 at 15:50, STARS: 2
It makes for an easy bearing job, for sure. But it complicates an otherwise simple brake job.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
03/03/2017 at 15:54, STARS: 0
Ugh. Yeah, I wouldn’t trust them for that either. Nothing would be worse than going to the trouble of installing the trans just to find out the flywheel is slightly out of spec.
"Logansteno: Bought a VW?" (logansteno)
03/03/2017 at 15:59, STARS: 1
This is how my S10 and the Safari are/were. It’s the just old school way of designing a hub. I’m not surprised that’s how the Mustang is given it’s a domestic 80s car and this was pretty standard fare then.
"" (bignslow)
03/03/2017 at 16:05, STARS: 0
5 lug conversion bro.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
03/03/2017 at 16:16, STARS: 0
The old way sucks.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
03/03/2017 at 16:17, STARS: 0
But I really like my 4lug wheels ;_; I wonder if there are adapters from 5 lug to 4 lug
"" (bignslow)
03/03/2017 at 16:22, STARS: 0
Aren’t those aftermarket wheels? Surely they make them in 5 lug.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
03/03/2017 at 16:46, STARS: 0
Not sure.
"Birddog" (maintmgt)
03/03/2017 at 17:19, STARS: 0
This was pretty much a standard practice going back a long time. Front drums were the same way.
"MM54" (mm54mk2)
03/03/2017 at 18:20, STARS: 0
This is standard old-car stuff. Tons of cars have the hub/rotor as one piece.
"jdrgoat - Ponticrack?" (jdrgoat)
03/03/2017 at 19:23, STARS: 0
Yep, it’s an old way of doing it. I hadn’t seen it myself before I did the brakes on my Fiero.
Fun fact, the front of the Fiero is the single assembly rotor/hub/bearing thingy, while on the rear it’s desperate pieces. (I think I’m remembering front/rear correct.) The front of the Fiero is Chevette, and the rear is Citation. :D
"TFSIVTEC drivesavolvo" (drivesaswedishcarmadeinbelgium-)
03/03/2017 at 19:39, STARS: 0
Yea but from a mechanic’s point of view, it involes more labor and has a cheaper parts cost for the job. Also, compare trying to replace bearings pressed into the knuckles in the driveway without an arbor-press compared to your old setup.
"KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs" (kusabisensei)
03/03/2017 at 20:23, STARS: 0
Hey, at least it’s not Honda captive brake rotors...
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
03/03/2017 at 21:10, STARS: 0
Best idea: turn spindle down to metric size on lathe if it isn’t already, adapt Honda captive rotor setup and bearings. JDM FOXBODY, BREH
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
03/03/2017 at 21:11, STARS: 1
No this is the proper way to do wheel bearings. Sealed wheels hubs are garbage. These type of hubs use two tapered roller bearings, some of the strongest and most durable types of bearings, modern cars use double or single row ball bearings and are generally garbage.
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
03/03/2017 at 21:12, STARS: 0
N0, while being a little messier, it is much cheaper and more durable than sealed wheel hubs.
"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
03/03/2017 at 21:40, STARS: 0
Only if labor is free.
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
03/03/2017 at 21:41, STARS: 0
actually I can pack and swap these out quicker than a FWD car with sealed hubs or press in hubs.
"brianbrannon" (brianbrannon)
03/03/2017 at 23:08, STARS: 0
Buy why is that idiotic?
"nerd_racing" (nerd189)
03/06/2017 at 07:08, STARS: 1
not as much as early honda accord press on rotors, or rotors that are rusted to the hubs. I’ve had to use 3 jaw pullers on a fiesta that I did brakes on TWICE!