by "MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
Published 03/03/2017 at 09:57
by "MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
Published 03/03/2017 at 09:57
Tags: BRAKES
; POWER STOP
; UPGRADE
; MILAN
; MERCURY
STARS: 1
Alright guys, I’ve talked about brake upgrades for the Milan before and it was mainly just talk and (at the time) there were zero plans to race it or really care about upgrades over standard street daily driver brakes.
Well I’ve raced it twice and the brakes held up fine (when I had traction for them to be useful that is hahaha). But I need to replace my front pads/rotors just due to wear.
Rock Auto has a mail in rebate to make this full set only $128(Front set only btw, full car set pictured below is more). This is barely more expensive than the gold level pads/rotors at Advance Auto and frankly I feel like those keep wearing out a bit faster than I’d prefer.
I’m a bit concerned that the drilled/slotted are going to EAT the brake pads and I’ll be swapping brakes again quick. It’s Power Stop’s Z23 pads which are apparently Carbon Fiber and Ceramic Compound (not that they share the mix on that haha).
I know Justin Hughes of Right Foot Down used them on a Flex I just don’t know how they did wear wise. Link to his story as the RFD guys are awesome:
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
Thanks OPPO, let me know if you’ve used them.
"Ash78, voting early and often" (ash78)
03/03/2017 at 10:04, STARS: 2
The way I understand it, drilled/slotted used to be more practical because they would prevent the pad gasses from causing a “float” and reducing contact and friction. But apart from serious racing pads, I don’t think these gases are much an issue anymore, which is why most people say drilled/slotted are mainly just for looks. They’re slightly lighter, but anecdotally wear the pads faster and have many more potential areas for cracking to start. I could be off base, but that’s from 10+ years of sharing and reading stories of people putting them on everyday cars.
"MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
03/03/2017 at 10:12, STARS: 0
That all sounds legit. I’m just wondering if i can get 25k-ish miles out of them. I hear they stop great, people just never come back and say how long they lasted.
"diplodicus" (diplodicus)
03/03/2017 at 10:19, STARS: 2
My E30 came with slotted rotors in front I’ve only put 3000 miles or so on it. No excessive pad wear, still have like 60% pad life, they are a semi-metallic compound though. The guy I bought it from autocrossed it and he told me the pads and rotors were the same ones that were on it when he bought it a year earlier. So if it’s a good deal I’d go for it.
"MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
03/03/2017 at 10:20, STARS: 0
Thanks for some real world experience with them.
"GUYMANDUDE" (guymandudebro)
03/03/2017 at 10:29, STARS: 1
Performance brakes are more about pads than rotors. I better pad compound will give you better brake feel and modulation. Also upgrade your fluid to a dot 4 to prevent boiling ( I like ATE type 200).
I think rotor decision is about which ones last the longest, especially when using an aggressive pad. Some brands are more durable.
Cross drilled are better left for really expensive rotors. They need to be highly engineered design or they will crack. Allot of the cheap ones just drill randomly and aren’t effective.
I would recommend looking at getting some stop tech street performance pads if that is the only pad you will use (not changing at the stack to a track pad).
Stop tech also makes decent rotors (I’m not sure for your application) for decent prices.
You can find allot of quality parts for cheap on Amazon there days.
Personally I don’t associate rock auto with performance, so I will assume those are not worth the money For only a little more you could have proven race/street technology. (Which will last longer and perform better).
I’m not an expert just my assumption.
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
03/03/2017 at 10:34, STARS: 1
I assume, the higher the friction, the faster the wear. certainly an organic chemical engineer could go into detail, but that’s just a general rule.
"MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
03/03/2017 at 10:39, STARS: 0
Thanks for the advice. I don’t plan on doing a ton more racing in the Milan, I have the Rally Capri for racing now, I just figured with the cost I may as well get an upgrade in stopping capability, mainly because people on the highway SUCK around here.
"190octane" (admiralcb)
03/03/2017 at 10:40, STARS: 1
One extra advantage to slotted rotors is that it seems to disperse the brake dust better and keeps your wheels cleaner.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
03/03/2017 at 11:00, STARS: 0
Drilled/slotted rotors in the same size as stock are not much (if any) of a performance upgrade.
I’ve run slotted rotors on various cars, mostly because the slots help shed water in the rain. My BMW has a “brake drying” feature where any time the wipers are on the brakes lightly pulse to clear water so this is less important.
The two things that improve brake performance the most are
1) Raising your coefficient of friction gives you more bite
2) Raising your heat capacity gives more resistance to fade
Coefficient of friction comes from pads & tires. Heat capacity comes from pads and brake fluid.
Those same PowerStop pads are $40 . They’re fine enough, and cheap. I had PowerStop Z36 truck/tow pads on my old WK Grand Cherokee and was happy with them.
Rather than mess with spending extra on drilled/slotted rotors, RockAuto sells plain old regular rotors for like 20 bucks a pop .
If you want a bit of a cosmetic upgrade, you could get e-coated ones so the hubs stay rust-free. Those are $33 each for the front.
So you’re looking at either $80 for basic or $106 for rust-free hubs.
Cheap and decent high performance brake fluid is Valvoline ProSyn. It’s usually about $5 per 12 oz bottle. If you want a little something extra, Wilwood Hi-Temp 570 is about $10/bottle.
Fancier ones that are more like $18-25 are Motul RBF600 & RBF660, Wilwood EXP 600, Brembo LCF600.
Don’t forget your 5% off coupon !
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
03/03/2017 at 11:04, STARS: 1
Thanks for the props!
I haven’t had the wheels off the Flex since installing these brakes, so I can’t tell you how they’re wearing through a visual inspection. I can say that they’re still working great over a year later, with no warping or vibration of any kind.
The real test will be this summer, when we plan to take the Flex to a Track Night In America event. They say a car must be wider than it is tall to participate. The Flex qualifies by 8". :D I’ll also have the wheels off the car to inspect the brakes before going to the track, but that won’t help you decide on a purchase right now.
"CobraJoe" (cobrajoe)
03/03/2017 at 11:04, STARS: 1
I’ve heard good things about the Centric rotors from Rock Auto, but I haven’t tried them myself in a performance application.
My Legacy GT badly needs some better brakes though, it only takes about 5 laps on a track day before they give up.
"MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
03/03/2017 at 11:16, STARS: 0
Ha! Anytime man! Feel free to sponsor the Rally Capri this year hahahaha, you guys are always looking for different RallyX cars right?
Honestly the Milan has eaten brakes over the years. No issues a year + out is positive lol. It’s the biggest weak spot of this car.
Cant wait to hear about the track night. I say you Livernois tune it and surprise the crap out of people!
"MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
03/03/2017 at 11:36, STARS: 0
Man, RallyX is so much easier and so much harder on cars hahaha
"Scary__goongala!" (corymagee)
03/03/2017 at 11:38, STARS: 2
Spend extra money on Pads and get some SS brake lines. Don’t bother with fancy expensive rotors.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
03/03/2017 at 11:52, STARS: 0
Even the stock 355hp will turn a few heads and pass a few cars, I think. ;)
"MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
03/03/2017 at 11:53, STARS: 0
Well thats part of this - they have good reviews and aren’t expensive.
"MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
03/03/2017 at 11:54, STARS: 1
oh I’m sure, and that 4500 ow you talked about is fascinating. I dont know if thats enough to handle pulling tha Capri around, but its close probably.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/03/2017 at 13:03, STARS: 0
Do not cross drilled! Slotted is good, but cross drilled is a gimmick for most road use and added to avaliable stress points and heat fracturing.
"uofime-2" (uofime-2)
03/03/2017 at 14:00, STARS: 0
pretty much everyone has touched on this but.
slots and holes don’t really accelerate pad wear at all, pads aren’t that soft and it’s not as though the edges of the features are proud (they shouldn’t be at least)
slots and holes will cause additional noise which is a consideration for a DD
slots and holes can cause cracks with poorly designed rotors especially with high heat and HARD abuse
If you like them cause they’re shiny go for it, they’ll be fine.
If you want a better and cheaper product get plain rotors.
Pad selection is more important anyway, particularly if you have performance intentions. unless you want to do a lot of experimenting yourself find a shop that specializes in your car or brakes in general (my favorite is KNS brakes) and talk to them about your use and see what they recommend.
someone recommended stoptech street performance, but those have an issue on a DD of leaving pad deposits. They must be driven HARD semi regularly or that will happen. Their regular street pads are probably a better option for a DD
"MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
03/03/2017 at 14:19, STARS: 0
Honestly I’m just considering them because they’re basically the same price as normal brakes because of the sale through rockauto. Hughes from RFD has had a good experience with them on their Flex for normal daily driving.
There is no such thing as shop that specializes in a Mercury Milan. I may be able to get some info about Fusion Sport’s or Mazda 6's but there’s not a huge performance draw for these cars and I’m positive I’m the only one who’s ever rally’ed one (which I don’t really plan on doing again btw because I have the Rally Capri now).
Basically in the end, it’s a similar cost and appears to be better performance than the standard OEM replacement I’d get from Advance.
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
03/17/2017 at 11:26, STARS: 0
Thank you for reminding me of that usage of proud .
If they’ll fit, seems to me, that rather than getting exotic, the thing to do is get larger diameter rotors.
"uofime-2" (uofime-2)
03/17/2017 at 12:06, STARS: 0
I use that one a lot in my work life.
The issue with larger diameter rotors is the calipers have to move as well.
Thicker rotors leave less room for pads.
it ususally comes down to what is acceptable wear because if all you need is stopping power you can usually find a pad that will maintain friction at high heat. The trade off is that you’ll wear through those pads and also your rotors faster doing that. The benefit is that smaller rotors are lighter. Being smaller also means you can run smaller wheels, and smaller tires which are also lighter and more importantly if you do a lot of driving or track events, cheaper.
If you compare tires of the same brand circumference and width, but for an 18" wheel versus a 17" wheel the difference in cost is usually 20% or more!
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
03/17/2017 at 12:20, STARS: 0
There’s a math problem there...
Just in a quick and very dirty calculation involving the surface area of a torus, the difference in material is on the order of 5-10% and my napkin indicates the low end of that figure. I am assuming that the net diameter of the tire grows with the rim size. If you’re talking different profiles, then that’s a different kettle of fish.
An obvious point about the calipers, but I hadn’t considered it. I have a ‘71 GMC Vandura (www.tinyurl.com/vandurapics) that ultimately, I’d like to see equipped with slick, modern brakes like Wildewood or EBC or similar, though this one did come equipped with front discs from the factory as an
option
... I bought this van from its original owner and it has 80,000 miles on the odometer. Straight-six, three-on-the-tree, though I’d like to fit a
World Class
T-5 to it. In time...
"uofime-2" (uofime-2)
03/17/2017 at 12:49, STARS: 0
In order to maintain circumference you do have to change profile, to a lower profile for the larger wheel. clearly there should be less raw material involved. I’m not completely sure how tires are molded, so that lower profile my make the molding more difficult and the tooling more expensive. Orrrrr it could just be a “luxury tax” on larger diameter wheels.
The difference in performance and feel is astounding as you climb the hierarchy from drums, to sliding calipers to fixed calipers.
Knowing GM’s rampant parts binning, I’m sure someone makes performance kits to work on both axles, just a matter of finding the application. Of course then you likely have to deal with probable wheel interference issues, new master cylinder, probably end up needing all new lines. Oh its a slippery rabbit hole of upgrading to fall down! ha ha
"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
03/17/2017 at 13:21, STARS: 0
Yeah, all of that. What is meant by “binning?”
"uofime-2" (uofime-2)
03/17/2017 at 13:37, STARS: 0
Oh, by that I mean they tend “raid the parts bin”, using the same design over and over, when building cars.
Use the same “12 bolt” rear axle for 30 years under countless models, or the same front hub and knuckle assembly.
the same bolt pattern for transmission, wheels, drive shafts, you name it.
This is useful for you because lets say you share are rear axle design with a 70 Chevelle, well there’s bound to be tons of off the shelf performance parts for that car, and they’ll all fit your van even if they aren’t marketed that way.