by "CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
Published 03/02/2017 at 10:23
by "CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
Published 03/02/2017 at 10:23
Tags: Corvette
; C4
; c7
; interior design
STARS: 5
Is it plagiarism if youcopy from yourself?
Let me show you how they came up with the C7's “new” interior
Yeah that’s right. It is almost a direct copy.
I’d rather have the C4 though
"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
03/02/2017 at 10:25, STARS: 1
Only if you sue you for plagiarism.
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
03/02/2017 at 10:26, STARS: 6
The C4 interior is better.
Come at me.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
03/02/2017 at 10:27, STARS: 0
But... larger toe box.
"Rainbow" (rainbeaux)
03/02/2017 at 10:29, STARS: 3
Academically, yes. A published paper is protected from everyone, even its own offer. You have to cite yourself if you want to use anything from it.
But in terms of copyright law, no. I’d assume you knew that, though.
"jimz" (jimz)
03/02/2017 at 10:30, STARS: 4
how is that plagiarism? It’s an evolution in design of the same car.
but yes, in the general sense you can “plagiarize” yourself. if writing a technical/scientific or other research paper, if you incorporate any of your previous works you are expected to cite them as you would a third-party source. otherwise you appear to be passing it off as original research.
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
03/02/2017 at 10:30, STARS: 6
whats that? I couldn’t hear you over my RED interior!
or I’ve done so much coke my ears are numb...
WOOOOOOOO!
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
03/02/2017 at 10:30, STARS: 0
"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
03/02/2017 at 10:32, STARS: 1
...so? Took a great idea, made it with better materials and replaced the original electronic gauges with modern versions that work because they’ve had 20+ years to develop the concept.
I like this.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
03/02/2017 at 10:34, STARS: 0
Enjoy your 700-R4, boss.
"RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht" (ramblininexile)
03/02/2017 at 10:35, STARS: 0
I can see that. I’d hazard the remark that the seat controls and a number of other things in the C4 are Just Better, so it’s not just looks.
"carzcarzcarz" (carzcarzcarz)
03/02/2017 at 10:38, STARS: 2
Ugh, can’t stand the all red intiorors, I do like the contrast of some parts being red, but not all/most. Might look ok at first but then the red starts to fade and just looks ugly in the long run.
"Honeybunchesofgoats" (honeybunche0fgoats)
03/02/2017 at 10:41, STARS: 1
Nosebleed stains don’t show on red interiors, baby!
"Honeybunchesofgoats" (honeybunche0fgoats)
03/02/2017 at 10:43, STARS: 1
On the other hand, you can keep rewriting and re-presenting the same paper and rely on yourself as your primary source until the cows come home.
"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
03/02/2017 at 10:43, STARS: 2
You’re a larger toe box.
"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
03/02/2017 at 10:44, STARS: 0
I am just bitter because crowmolly cannot into C4
"Ash78, voting early and often" (ash78)
03/02/2017 at 10:49, STARS: 2
"Jagvar" (Jagvar)
03/02/2017 at 10:58, STARS: 1
I’ve often wondered that. In college, I once submitted the same paper to the same professor twice, two years apart. I got an A both times.
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
03/02/2017 at 11:02, STARS: 5
That isn’t plagiarism. That’s “design language” being used to unify their products.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/02/2017 at 11:05, STARS: 0
Ha, that is the best thing I have ever heard.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/02/2017 at 11:05, STARS: 0
I 100% agree. Just were good photos of the interiors. Red needs to be a minimal accent color.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/02/2017 at 11:07, STARS: 2
We all know we’d get the 6 speed
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/02/2017 at 11:07, STARS: 0
I want to see a judge react to that
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/02/2017 at 11:08, STARS: 0
I was more of a joke just to show the fun in the two designs.
"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo)
03/02/2017 at 11:24, STARS: 0
But does it have a secret cubby behind the radio?
"Hateful Mate" (hatefulmate)
03/02/2017 at 11:29, STARS: 0
Certainly was ahead of it’s time. The orange lights have to go though..
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
03/02/2017 at 11:33, STARS: 2
It’s not plagirism if you add room for normal human adult legs and feet, which the C4 sorely lacks.
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
03/02/2017 at 11:37, STARS: 1
The 6 speed is the way to go, at least until the clutch needs to be replaced, which I’m trying to hold off on for as long as possible.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/02/2017 at 11:41, STARS: 1
Shhh, lies. You don’t need all of your leg
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/02/2017 at 11:42, STARS: 0
I can’t imagine it being harder than any other GM car.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
03/02/2017 at 11:45, STARS: 1
C7 has that sweet, sweet normal footwell action. Mmmm, legroom.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/02/2017 at 11:47, STARS: 0
Again, just like sitting in the back of a Porsche, you don’t need all of your leg. Just skip leg day for a few months.
"gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee" (gogmorgo)
03/02/2017 at 13:32, STARS: 1
In the academic world, yes, it’s plagiarism if you’re using ideas without citing the source, even if the source is you via your own previous work.
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
03/02/2017 at 15:41, STARS: 1
I hear tell that the powerplant frame on a C4 is not fun to remove or install. The real issue is that the ZF 6-speed cars use a dual-mass flywheel. Specifically, they use a dual-mass flywheel that no longer exists. When it becomes clutch times, the cars have to be converted to a solid flywheel sourced by taking an F-Body flywheel and machining about .090 off the face of it and running a sprung hub clutch disc (also from an F-Body). From a performance standpoint, this fine. From an NVH standpoint, they take a car that already had plenty of drive line NVH and add more to it with gear rattle at idle.
In addition to the fact that dual mass flywheels no longer exist, quality components for the rest of the clutch system are no longer produced, which means the existing stock of parts are expensive. The end result is that your 6-speed C4 clutch will wind up costing lots of money and result in a less than desirable outcome.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/02/2017 at 16:07, STARS: 0
I probably would have modified a C5 tube and rear transaxle to fit. Or maybe just a T56
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
03/02/2017 at 16:40, STARS: 1
In both of those cases it would just be cheaper to by a C5. The price difference between clean, documented service history LT1/LT4 6-speed cars and clean, documented early C5 vettes is not a whole lot. I like my C4, and it is an entertaining way to drive to work eveyday, but for most folks a C5 would be much better car. Even if the performance difference between late 6-speed C4s and an early C5 isn’t huge, the comfort/convince and ergonomics are an order of magnitude better. When driving a C4, you’ll never for a moment confuse it for a modern car.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/02/2017 at 17:07, STARS: 0
My plan if full on race car , so none of that really matters
"Urambo Tauro" (urambotauro)
03/02/2017 at 17:16, STARS: 1
If this kind of “plagiarism” is wrong, I don’t want to be right.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/02/2017 at 17:35, STARS: 0
Fair enough
"NJAnon" (NJAnon)
03/02/2017 at 21:10, STARS: 0
#INCEPTION
#CantDoubleJeopardyYourself
"Axial" (axial)
03/03/2017 at 00:21, STARS: 0
You don’t have to replace your dual-mass unless the seal between the halves is broken. They also make single-mass flywheels specifically for the Corvette by this point; no need for that F-body shenanigans. Also also, the NVH difference depends on how massive your new single-mass flywheel is and how smoothly your engine idles. The biggest problems come from cars using Fidanza light-weight aluminum flywheels with hot-cam or out-of-tune engines.
"Axial" (axial)
03/03/2017 at 00:24, STARS: 1
TBQH, for a race car it would be far and away superior to start with an ‘87-’89 Z51 to any other version. The LT-5 is a phenomenal powerplant, but it’s also a goddamn brick with ~150 lbs extra over the L98 and LT1/4 on the front wheels. And since it’s #racecar, the sky is the limit to what you can do with the powerplants.
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
03/03/2017 at 10:30, STARS: 1
The flywheel actually does need to be addressed on these cars.. A dual mass flywheel is designed as a wear item. They are difficult to resurface correctly, and even if the best machinist you know does happen to pull it off with acceptable run out, it does nothing to renew the many individual parts that are inside that dual mass flywheel. On C4s it is the reason that virtually all of these flywheels are making noise by 40 or 50k. I’m aware they make solid flywheels for C4's, but the prices I’ve seen are pretty ridiculous. An F-body flywheel and a half hour of labor (okay, maybe a full hour if you aren’t drinking buddies with them) to your preferred machine shop costs less.
I’ve driven a car with that heavy 36lbs C4 specific solid flywheel, and the gear rattle at unloaded idle was louder than the worn dual mass flywheel and throw out bearing in my car.
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
03/03/2017 at 10:39, STARS: 0
The thing about racecars is that the class rules and car specification line in the GCR dictate everything that you can do with the car, unless one is just talking about track days. Only in that case can you build whatever you want. I would agree with avoiding an LT-5 to play with at this point. Assuming you run 3/4 of your region’s club racing schedule (call it 10 race weekends a year, which should be enough to win your class regionally or qualify for run-offs in a national class if that is goal), one is probably looking at an engine rebuild every other season or so (for stock to mild internals, more often if you’re playing in a class with built motors). I can’t imagine that LT-5 internals are particularly cheap or easy to come by.
"CaptDale - is secretly British" (captdale)
03/03/2017 at 11:10, STARS: 0
But they are reliable and it just has to be an LT5
"Axial" (axial)
03/03/2017 at 13:05, STARS: 0
You won’t really find the OE Nikasil cylinder liners easily, you’d have to go aftermarket chrome-moly, though I don’t know that that is a bad thing. Beyond that and the major structural components (block, heads, plenum) it isn’t really out of whack for Corvette components until you get to the vacuum system for the variable intake, but for racing I imagine you would disable or remove that altogether since its entire purpose is to improve fuel economy under normal driving. A lot of owners have it removed anyway (not me though, the vacuum lag adds to the fun!).
I think the transmission is actually the bigger problem. The LT5 has something of an industry behind it, but almost nothing for the ZF6.
My biggest recommendation against using a ZR-1, though, is the bodywork. The only way to replace anything from the doors on back is to pull it from salvage. Even the rear bumper. For a car with a high risk of seeing damage, that seems undesirable. I also suggested a pre-90 because there are no airbags to rip out, no traction control to work around, and the interior bits you may need are universally less expensive. And almost nobody is going to miss that 700R4 or DN 4+3 if you rip it out.
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
03/03/2017 at 13:51, STARS: 0
Indeed. At this point, I can’t think of reason to make a C4 a racecar other than because it would be cool. A C5 can be had for the same money, built for less money, and there is tremendous parts support (both for OEM stuff and racing stuff). I guess you could run one in GT1 or STO, but at that point you’re talking about a 90k and 50k car build respectively. It looks like they could be raced in T1 also, but that again is a big dollar build, and a cursory glance at the rules suggests to me that you probably can’t within the rules overcome the handling and areo advantages that the newer vettes have built in (which are what most folks seem to run anyway in T1/T2). You could play in ITE-o also, but that is regional only, you could wind up racing against almost anything, and you can also spend big bucks trying to keep up with almost anything. A C5/C6 would be considerably cheaper to run over the long term, and you would find a variety of classes to call home where you would have people to competitively play with.
I think the way to go playing racecar with a vette would be to pick up a C5Z06 and run it in either T2 or T1-LP. Buy the car for $15-20k, remove what little is allowed, add the cage and other safety equipment, throw in the stainless brake lines and race pads, swap in the T1 suspension parts, throw on sticky tires and enjoy. You could probably be on the track for less than 30K and competitive for less than 40K.
I’ve built and raced one IT car that wasn’t ideal, but it was the car available to me to make a racecar at the time. Having been down that road, I would never do it again. I would start with a good car for the class that has lots of parts support. More likely at this point is that I would just pick up an old formula ford or an original Formula Mazda and just play regionally in a car designed from the ground up as a racecar. Formula Mazda could also be played with nationally if you’re willing to put up the cash to always run a fresh motor and a fresh set of tires everyday (instead of every weekend).
"ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com" (ita97)
03/03/2017 at 14:23, STARS: 0
Oooh, I just saw that the 84 (only) vette has a spec line listed in ITR at 3200lbs (with driver). That is probably the only place a C4 makes any sense to play with, even if my instict tells me that its probably not competive in the class. You have to stick with the 4+3, which makes me think that wide gear spacing is going to do no favors, but you could get out on track for less than 20k.
"Nauraushaun" (nauraushaun12)
03/04/2017 at 07:13, STARS: 1
When you plagiarize yourself it’s a nod to heritage