by "Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
Published 02/25/2017 at 17:13
by "Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
Published 02/25/2017 at 17:13
Tags: Finland
; Vodka
; Kimi
; Siemens
; Last mile
; Trainlopnik
STARS: 5
Finland is a place known for vodka , people with lots of umlauts and double letters who know what they’re doing , more vodka , forests, a deeply alien language and more forests.
Amongst their main exports are timber and vodka and to shift the first of these in large quantities they use rail freight. They therefore need something to haul their freight and so they’ve ordered 80 electric locomotives from Siemens.
We note that Finland is also noted for snow.
It’s also noted for a
war against the Soviet Union
which they lost (at horrendous cost to the Soviets), taking part in the siege of Leningrad and afterwards convincing everyone that it had been an all-German affair, and then
having a second go
at war with the Soviet Union.
The locos are neither internally nor externally combusted but externally powered so they run under wires. As they’re not hauling around engines, alternators and related equipment they can produce rather a lot of power and so they’re 6.4 MW or 8,500 bhp, something like twice what a diesel would have to play with.
That’s fine, but overhead lines don’t go everywhere so VR have ordered “last mile” engines so to be able to move around unelectrified yards. The locos therefore have a pair of little diesel engines of just 180 kw each. Just 5% or so of the usual power output. They must crawl around with these so, mustn’t they?
Not necessarily.
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
"BritishLeyland™" (leylandcars)
02/25/2017 at 18:32, STARS: 0
Fun/boring fact: I belive Finland was supposed to buy a couple of GM Electro-Motive Division locomotives in the 1950s, but the USSR got all jealous and abusive on them so the order was cancelled. As they allready were in production, they were sold to Norway instead and differ slightly from the other norwegian GM EMD locomotives.
"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
02/25/2017 at 18:53, STARS: 0
Yes, for a long time the Finns tended to do what the Russians told them!
"gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee" (gogmorgo)
02/25/2017 at 19:35, STARS: 0
Sure, they’re moving pretty good, but they also don’t have much of a load on.
"facw" (facw)
02/25/2017 at 20:16, STARS: 0
Interesting considering that Finland’s railroads aren’t standard gauge, though I guess since the locomotives were coming from the west, they probably would not have been difficult to convert back for Norway.
"facw" (facw)
02/25/2017 at 20:25, STARS: 0
Finland has a pretty large rail network:
I’m surprised enough of it is electrified to be able to make use of these guys (electrified sections in blue, per wikipedia). But I guess I’m just biased by how awful and backward our rail is here in the US (can’t find a good map, but I don’t think there’s been much improvement from this 1930s one, aside from the expansion to Boston that happened in the 1990s):
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
02/26/2017 at 04:58, STARS: 0
Ah, the Vectron, Siemens’ take on ubiquity.
SBB went for the title of “most adorable last-mile locomotive” with their Stadler shunters.
"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
02/26/2017 at 08:10, STARS: 0
Cute. Only two axles?
Siemens only need an electro diesel and then they’d cover everything.
"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
02/26/2017 at 08:16, STARS: 0
They can, or so I’m told, move substantial weights but very slowly so they can shunt wagons around a yard..
"gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee" (gogmorgo)
02/26/2017 at 08:27, STARS: 0
Yeah, that’s what I was getting at. The video makes it seem like they’re quick, but I can’t help but wonder how long it took to get them moving that speed.
"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
02/26/2017 at 08:28, STARS: 1
I read somewhere that the mileage of electrified lines in the US has (except for busy passenger routes in the north east) fallen by 90% in the past few decades as they’re not economic given the limited traffic (a couple of freights per day).
Interestingly there’s a sleeper route from Helsinki to Rovaniemi. It’s only about 400 km which doesn’t seem long enough to get value from your cabin but there you go,
"facw" (facw)
02/26/2017 at 10:50, STARS: 1
Wikipedia says:
Electrification in the US reached its maximum of 3,100 miles (5,000 km) in the late 1930s. [5] [6] [7] [8]
By 1973 it was down to 1,778 route miles (2,861 km) (Class I railroads) with the top 3 being: Penn Central 829 miles (1,334 km), Milwaukee Road 658 miles (1,059 km), Long Island Rail Road 121 miles (195 km).
In 2014 the only electrified lines hauling freight by electricity were three short line coal haulers (mine to power plant) and one switching railroad in Iowa.
[9]
The total electrified route length of these four railroads is 122 miles (196 km). While some freight trains run on parts of the electrified
Northeast Corridor
and on part of the adjacent
Keystone Corridor
, these freight trains use diesel locomotives for traction. The total electrified route length of these two corridors is 559 miles (900 km).
So sounds like we went from ~5000km to ~1100km. Not a 90% drop, but still seems like a major step back. While I’m sure in many places, you are right and the volume doesn’t justify the expense, my understanding is that there are large parts of the network that are run at or near capacity (granted capacity is lower than it could be due to ancient signalling and such). I’m also a bit suspicious of that 2014 number, simply because it seems unlikely to me that much of the Penn Central or LIRR network would have been deelectrified, it may be that some of that is just not being counted as it is now owned by a commuter rail organization.
"Out, but with a W - has found the answer" (belg)
02/26/2017 at 10:55, STARS: 0
Two axles, but still 1500kW.
"eftalanquest" (eftalanquest)
02/26/2017 at 14:46, STARS: 0
they have:
http://therailyard.kinja.com/going-to-lay-my-hands-on-these-two-soon-1792018840
"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
02/26/2017 at 15:12, STARS: 0
Ah, but they’re diesel electric. I was thinking of electro diesel or bi mode.
"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
02/26/2017 at 15:15, STARS: 0
That’s a lot of kW for four very small contact areas!
"eftalanquest" (eftalanquest)
02/26/2017 at 15:16, STARS: 0
ah ok, misunderstanding.
"eftalanquest" (eftalanquest)
03/04/2017 at 17:47, STARS: 0
since i’ve finished my my first week (of 2) of learning the ins and outs of the electric vectron i’m asking myself where they situated the last mile diesel engines. the engine room layout i saw doesn’t really leave space for them.
"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
03/04/2017 at 19:12, STARS: 0
I’ve looked at the brochure and I’m afraid it gives the layout only of the diesel electric (full sized engine) version.
"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
03/05/2017 at 05:24, STARS: 0
Thinking about it again, maybe underneath like in a DMU? The engine (I’ve heard reports of both one and two but I think one is correct) is only 180 kw so even with its radiator, exhaust, alternator and so on it won’t take up much space.
"eftalanquest" (eftalanquest)
03/12/2017 at 08:51, STARS: 1
successfully finished my vectron qualification and coming back with some info:
- the diesel power module (as siemens calls it) is located in the engine room
- it’s size is 1m by 1,30m by 1,6m
- the finnish vectron has indeed two of them (turns out there’s a lot of space left when you take out all that stuff that you don’t need for a loco that only runs in just one country with just one train control system and under just one voltage)
- power output of one DPM is about 160 kW which allows for a maximum tractive effort of about 230 kN and a top speed of 40 km/h (so i guess the finnish ones are faster and more powerful)
"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
03/12/2017 at 15:46, STARS: 0
That’s interesting.
An electric Vectron has a starting tractive effort of 300 kN from its 6.4MW so a loco running on its 0.16MW last-mile engine should hardly be able to move itself, never mind apply traction - but in fact it can produce 230 kN so it could actually move quite a heavy rake of wagons, albeit very slowly.
I guess the Finnish locos get two 160 kW engines because it’s cheaper to do that than design one larger module.
"eftalanquest" (eftalanquest)
03/12/2017 at 16:25, STARS: 0
it’s not the dpm that’s generating the tractive effort, it’s the electric motors underneath. they just don’t get the power needed to go 200 km/h or pulling a heavy train over longer distances.