by "bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
Published 02/23/2017 at 12:43
by "bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
Published 02/23/2017 at 12:43
Tags: Oppolitics
; ethanol
; biofuels
; oil
; Electric Vehicles
STARS: 2
After the jump.
Looks like the Renewable Fuels Association, an ethanol lobby group, and the American Fuel and Petrochemical Manufacturers, an oil lobby group, are working together to fight what they see as unfair subsidies on electric vehicles.
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The problem is, even in that article... they get to the actual point - it’s not really about EVs getting unfair subsidies, it’s about the fear that they’ll displace demand for internal combustion engines. Both the corn and oil lobbies want to see the internal combustion engine be the default for the foreseeable future, because without the internal combustion engine being in nearly every car, they both stand to lose a lot of income.
Never mind that the reason for the EV subsidies is to reduce greenhouse gases (the jury’s still out on whether corn ethanol even does that ) and criteria tailpipe emissions in populated areas (which ethanol doesn’t, as far as I’m aware, really help with). And, regarding the oil lobby, what about the energy independence benefits of EVs? Sure, they’re looking out for their own interests, but it’s in our best interest for our elected officials to push back against this lobbying. Sadly, I don’t see that happening with our current administration.
And, I’m not against internal combustion being used where it’s appropriate (in many cases, the flexibility of ICE fueling helps on long distance runs), but I think there’s a lot of applications where ICE’s benefits aren’t relevant, and an EV’s drawbacks aren’t relevant. These subsidies help establish EVs and plug-in hybrids in these markets, especially by making them available to people who aren’t rich.
"Ash78, voting early and often" (ash78)
02/23/2017 at 12:46, STARS: 12
I’m not a fan of subsidies and I get their complaining, but ETHANOL? Talk about pork-barrel beneficiaries of stupid government policy. They don’t have a leg to stand on here. And I still don’t get why cars like the Volt aren’t more popular. Seems like the most benefit to the most people, all at the same time.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
02/23/2017 at 12:53, STARS: 2
...but it’s in our best interest for our elected officials to push back against this lobbying. Sadly, I don’t see that happening with our current administration.
Sadly, I don’t see that happening with any administration or congress. There are not enough people in government who care about the future to push really enlightened energy policy forward. And there isn’t enough ethanol production to support all our ICEs as more than a fuel additive, if I remember correctly. So, no help for oil dependence there.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
02/23/2017 at 12:53, STARS: 2
The Volt’s approach really is an excellent compromise - enough EV range to handle 90% or more of round trip commutes without starting the engine, and a gas engine in case you need to go further (or ambient conditions shortened your EV range).
I just don’t like the car - I had visibility and ergonomic issues, and the suspension tuning was nauseatingly bad, on the Gen 2 Volt I test drove.
However, there’s other PHEV options, at least, although other than the i3 REx, all of them have shorter EV range and are blended (meaning that the engine is required for full power). And, the i3 REx has insufficient power to sustain high-speed freeway driving, and has short gasoline range.
"Ash78, voting early and often" (ash78)
02/23/2017 at 13:07, STARS: 1
At the end of the day, the product cycle is longer than the election cycle, therefore the product cycle does not matter.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
02/23/2017 at 13:10, STARS: 0
Mind you, there is some interesting technology being developed for ethanol production - handy for fueling range extenders from truly renewable fuel, and likely far, far cheaper than hydrogen fuel cells - but the ethanol lobby is really the corn lobby, and they won’t like that one either.
"Tekamul" (tekamulburner)
02/23/2017 at 13:12, STARS: 5
That was my first thought. Ethanol!?!? Complaining about subsidies!?!?
"SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie" (sidewaysondirt)
02/23/2017 at 13:13, STARS: 3
The corn and oil lobbies have no right to complain about unfair subsidies as they’ve been key beneficiaries of them for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
02/23/2017 at 13:23, STARS: 0
Cynical, but well said.
"MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
02/23/2017 at 13:23, STARS: 0
I’ve been saying for years the Volt format is the only one that’s really functional at this point. There’s plenty of people that are 2 car house holds and one has an EV and the other has a long range gas, but what about when one breaks down? now you may not be able to go long range if you have to.
I know, I know just range anxiety but that’s the point. If EV’s were 5 or 10 grand brand new it might be justified as a stand alone, I just couldn’t imagine dropping 30k to be able to drive 40 miles.
Volt is the winning formula (even if the car itself doesn’t work for you, I haven’t driven one)
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
02/23/2017 at 13:26, STARS: 0
Oh, I read about that. Super cool. We’ll need those creative solutions, if ethanol is to really make a difference.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
02/23/2017 at 13:30, STARS: 0
To be fair, it’s more like 50-60 miles safely between charging in the Leaf (that’s partially because the Leaf has terrible battery degradation), and some newer short-range EVs can do more like 80-110 safely.
Then you’ve got the long range ones - the Bolt can probably do 175-200 safely. The Model 3 with its smallest battery option will likely be in the same ballpark (of course, it has the Supercharger network, too).
Of course, another problem with the Volt (or any plug-in, for that matter, without infrastructure investments) is... I wasn’t sure I’d be able to charge it. If I liked the car, I’d have pushed to get charging arrangements, but I didn’t like it, and instead went for a non-plug-in hybrid. (Right now, my goal for electric daily driving is to find a suitable electric scooter with removable (and chargeable off scooter) batteries, to get around the charging problem. If the GenZe 2.0's speed limiter could be raised to even 40 (the 30 mph limit that they have to fit into states’ moped classes doesn’t help in Ohio, and I have a motorcycle endorsement anyway), or the Gogoro Smartscooter were available in the US with a home charger, I’d be happy.)
"MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562)
02/23/2017 at 13:45, STARS: 0
You’re right that’s fair, but my used 07 mercury milan that cost me 12k in 2012 with a v6 that gets 31 mpg on the highway (rated to 26 mind you and no I don’t have super low roll resistance tires even haha) and I can drive over 300 miles on a fill up and the fill only takes me 5 minutes.
Charging is still too slow and batteries are too short of a distance unless you’re talking about a long ranger.
It still just doesn’t make sense unless it’s the Volt formula so you can extend your range further than the batteries allow.
"AfromanGTO" (afromangto)
02/23/2017 at 14:16, STARS: 0
Get rid of stupid corn that takes up way too many nutrients from soil, and be like Brazil and use Sugarcane. I’d rather have an excess of sugarcane than of corn. Plus you don’t put a corn cob in a mojito. So why put it in my car. lol Think of all the wonderful that Brazil has now thanks to fuel from sugarcane.
"NJAnon" (NJAnon)
02/23/2017 at 18:22, STARS: 0
Where is the Honda FCX Clarity? Where is the saturation of the market for these Tesla Model S and Chevrolet Volt without backhanded compliments to internal combustion engine cars?
Sometimes the PR department staff that is supposed to get folks support for EV/Hybrid aren’t helping their cause by attacking. Find other means.
"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
02/23/2017 at 18:46, STARS: 1
You do realize that we’re talking about two rather heavily subsidized industries, right?
The oil industry gets about $4B/yr (I’ve seen much higher estimates, though, and that’s without rolling the military into them) in government subsidies: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/06/upshot/do-oil-companies-really-need-4-billion-per-year-of-taxpayers-money.html
Trying to find reliable numbers for ethanol is difficult, though...
And, these industries are whining about a competing technology, that’s better at the stated goals for ethanol subsidies (air quality improvements, greenhouse gas emissions), getting subsidies. Fuck ‘em.
"gmporschenut also a fan of hondas" (gmporschenut)
02/23/2017 at 23:52, STARS: 0
https://vimeo.com/aawoolf/httpvimeocomaawoolfkingcornespanol