by "rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S" (rb1971)
Published 02/15/2017 at 15:04
by "rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S" (rb1971)
Published 02/15/2017 at 15:04
No Tags
STARS: 0
Opponauts:
I’ve had my M6 GC for just over a year now. I didn’t drive it much at first, but in the past couple of months I’ve spent a lot of time driving back and forth to Los Angeles from SF. I’ve notices that every time I’m stuck in traffic (and many times when coming off a light) the transmission engagement is like a person that doesn’t know how to drive stick on a real manual. Lots of bucking and slipping.
Yesterday I spent 2 hours in LA heavy rush hour traffic and tried every mode on the car I could think of since I was doing a lot of stop/start. Basically I couldn’t find one that I liked.
I’m taking the car in for BMW to look at it tomorrow, but I’m not optimistic that they will say anything other than “normal operation”.
Anyone here have experience with these and thoughts? The car as a whole is great but having a transmission that can’t handle starts is basically ruining the whole experience. It’s legitimately worse than the F1 transmission that I had in my 09 GranTurismo.
(I am totally aware these are generally great problems to have BTW.)
"TheTurbochargedSquirrel" (thatsquirrel)
02/15/2017 at 15:16, STARS: 0
I know that one of the big struggling points for DCTs and automated manuals is the engagement below the idle in 1st speed. Clutches don’t like slipping so the computer wants to have it fully engaged.
Saying that it is rather odd for a transmission from someone who has been in the DCT game as long as BMW has. How many miles are on the car? I would specifically ask about if the transmission can be re-calibrated as it sounds almost like the clutch isn’t engaging the way the computer expects it to.
I would also try making sure that you are allowing the car to fully engage the clutch and not creeping at a low speed. The DCT wont bump itself along like you can in a manual and just slips the clutch at those speeds.
"rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S" (rb1971)
02/15/2017 at 15:19, STARS: 0
I’ve got about 9500 miles on the car right now.
I agree with you about how DCT struggles, but given the M6 is never really going to be a track attack car I think they probably should have just put a regular ZF 8-speed in it. Frankly I wish I had gotten the B6 Alpina instead (with a regular auto).
"My citroen won't start" (lucasboechat)
02/15/2017 at 15:21, STARS: 1
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
"rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S" (rb1971)
02/15/2017 at 15:24, STARS: 0
Haha yup. That pantomime of the 16 year old on his first stick shift? Me all day in traffic in LA yesterday.
"Rico" (ricorich)
02/15/2017 at 15:36, STARS: 0
Chances are some software updates are available for the transmission but I believe majority of DCTs are lurchy unless you are planting your foot down.
"TheTurbochargedSquirrel" (thatsquirrel)
02/15/2017 at 15:49, STARS: 0
I imagine the decision to use the DCT instead of the ZF was probably dictated by the M division’s electronics package. Easier to just use the same transmissions in all the cars instead of developing the hardware and software to use the ZF.
I would ask them about a recalibration. Mechanical systems wear over time and sometimes that confuses the computers. If the computer has a learning algorithm it may just be a case of letting it figure it out as you drive.
"rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S" (rb1971)
02/15/2017 at 15:53, STARS: 0
I thought that too, but the DCT in the M3/4 is apparently different than the DCT in the M5/6.
"rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S" (rb1971)
02/15/2017 at 15:54, STARS: 1
...which makes it a bad choice for a car which is effectively an executive GT.
I have no complaints about how it works when I’m driving it hard. But street cars need to work on the street primarily.
"Carbon Fiber Sasquatch" (turbopumpkin)
02/15/2017 at 15:54, STARS: 0
Yep, it’s part of the “charm”
"TheTurbochargedSquirrel" (thatsquirrel)
02/15/2017 at 15:55, STARS: 0
I wonder how so. Is it an actual different box or is it just different gear ratios?
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
02/15/2017 at 15:56, STARS: 0
My 135is DCT generally was ok in those situations but occasionally was not as smooth and simple as a torque converter automatic. The only “modes” it had were the sport button being on or off. I think the M DCT is a different transmission. Are you leaving it in auto or shifting manually?
"rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S" (rb1971)
02/15/2017 at 15:58, STARS: 0
Was the 135is DCT or ZF?
I tried literally every possible mode yesterday during the 2+ hours I was stuck in traffic. Nothing prevented the jittery starts entirely. The best result was from shifting manually with the “gearshift” knob.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
02/15/2017 at 16:02, STARS: 0
It was DCT. The M235i/M240i has a ZF 8-speed torque converter auto, but the N55 135i/135is was 7-speed DCT. With the lower power and less drive modes, it’s probably a different DCT than what’s in the S63 M cars.
"rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S" (rb1971)
02/15/2017 at 16:13, STARS: 0
Might be the same one as the current crop of M3/4 cars though.
I am pretty close to never owning another car with a robotic manual ever again if BMW can’t make this right.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
02/15/2017 at 16:16, STARS: 0
When I test drove a couple N55/ZF cars, I definitely noticed that transmission was much smoother than the DCT and for the most part shifted just as quickly. It was less brappy on full-throttle upshifts but overall much more refined.
And...now I have a stick shift. But I also don’t generally have to sit in traffic.
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
02/15/2017 at 16:30, STARS: 0
Considering how big it’s gotten, you’re probably right, but they probably felt that they at least had to at least give some nod to the ///M on the back.
It can still put down some hot laps if someone decides to kill some brake pads:
2007 Lotus Exige S - 3:04.5
2007 Audi R8 - 3:04.6
2013 BMW M6 - 3:04.7
2012 Audi TT RS - 3:04.8
2012 Mercedes-Benz CLS63 AMG - 3:04.9
2009 Lotus Exige S 260 Sport - 3:05.0
"Montalvo" (m5goesroundtheoutside)
02/15/2017 at 16:44, STARS: 0
That is fairly common for the M6 transmission. From my experience with them they are basically more resemblant to a manual than BMWs more traditional automatics. The M6 isn’t a fan of stop/starts. It wants to get up and move and keep on going.
"rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S" (rb1971)
02/15/2017 at 16:52, STARS: 1
The brakes squeak terribly as well. I feel like that doesn’t scream “expensive GT car” either, but at least they work great so I don’t feel like I can complain.
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
02/15/2017 at 17:02, STARS: 0
Gotta stop that 4400 lb beast somehow - ha!
"Saracen" (manualdoucheelitist)
02/15/2017 at 18:20, STARS: 1
Easy fix:
1) Sell M6 GC
2) Buy the new, super sexy Panamera
3) Marvel at how much better PDK is than any other dual clutch transmission, at any speed.
"rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S" (rb1971)
02/15/2017 at 18:55, STARS: 0
Is the PDK a robot manual? I think I’m about over those. I could go test drive that car, but then again the M6 didn’t bother me in test drives either.
Long stints in heavy traffic? Terrible.
"Saracen" (manualdoucheelitist)
02/15/2017 at 18:58, STARS: 0
Robotic manual? I guess, I mean it is a flappy paddle dual clutch gearbox. But rennlist is full of PDK owners saying that the transmission works great in heavy traffic.
"rb1971 ARGQF+CayenneTurbo+E9+328GTS+R90S" (rb1971)
02/15/2017 at 19:16, STARS: 0
Robotic manual meaning not a standard torque converter automatic (which is great in traffic). I put them all in the same bucket no matter what the manufacturer calls them - SMG, PDK, DCT, LMNOP, etc.
"Saracen" (manualdoucheelitist)
02/15/2017 at 19:29, STARS: 0
Gotcha. I don’t think Porsche uses torque converters in any of their vehicles now. But they really seem to work better than any other such gearbox out there. Even in traffic.
"Aaaron" (aaaron)
02/15/2017 at 23:06, STARS: 1
I have an E64 M6 with the SMG (single clutch auto) right now and the starts can be weird, however if I was gonna get a newer 6 series, I’d totally get the 650i with the ZF. It just seems to shift faster and more smoothly. And since it has torque converter lock up, you don’t really loose power by having an auto. Just seems like a win win to me.
"e36Jeff now drives a ZHP" (e36jeff)
03/10/2017 at 22:51, STARS: 0
I’ve not driven one, but I’ve read that you basically need to apply the tiniest imaginable bit of throttle when you are upshifting at low speed, basically keep your foot still and push down with your big toe as you shift. Supposedly that smooths out the low speed shifting. Not sure what to do for the start from a stop though, maybe the dealer has an update for the DTC controller.