by "SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
Published 02/16/2017 at 09:00
by "SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
Published 02/16/2017 at 09:00
No Tags
STARS: 6
People call me all the time asking about traffic tickets they have received. The basic question often underlying this is: Should you even bother to fight the ticket? With or without an attorney, there are several things to consider.
First, I’m talking about tickets that are probably deserved. If you really are innocent of the charges, by all means fight. Fight the power!
But if you probably did do what you are accused of, is it worth fighting? Keep in mind that you can get hit with fines, costs and points on your license if you are found guilty/responsible for the charge. In other words, if there is any chance of prevailing, the answer is probably in the affirmative.
So it boils down to what you are accused of, did you get a break at the roadside, how is your driving record so far, and what is your aversion to wasting time in court and spending money compared to the possible rise in your insurance rates.
Yes, it sounds like a confusing flowchart but I explain it all in this week’s podcast. Here is the audio:
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And the video:
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Top pic is obviously the bookshelf that is usually obscured by me when I am pontificating on my podcast video. The top shelf is microphones and two significant cars. First row of books are law books. Second row may or may not be significant: I was simply putting books into the shelves in which they fit. I believe I have read them all at one time or another.
Follow me on Twitter: @stevelehto
Hear my podcast on iTunes: Lehto’s Law
Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 25 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and Michigan lemon law. He wrote The Lemon Law Bible and Preston Tucker and His Battle to Build the Car of Tomorrow.
This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.
"404 - User No Longer Available" (toni-cipriani)
02/16/2017 at 09:05, STARS: 0
So I guess I really braved it back then when I was fighting my 90 in a 55 zone, out-of-province AND out-of-country ticket...
End result was ticket got dropped to a “parking” ticket with a hefty fine.
"jimz" (jimz)
02/16/2017 at 09:12, STARS: 0
is the “civil infraction conference” a state-wide thing? last ticket I got a few years ago in Warren, they had the option of an informal CIC without even a judge or magistrate present. basically they called us in 4-5 at a time, said “you qualify to have the citation reduced to a non-moving violation, please pay on your way out.”
"Dave the car guy , still here" (a3dave)
02/16/2017 at 09:15, STARS: 1
Back in my 1970s college years I put up a fight 3 times in the Wilmington area for poorly timed traffic lights. The worst was at HWY 17 alternate/Eastwood road where you could be driving the limit and if the light changed you had to almost slam on brakes to stop before it turned red. In the rain I’d seen cars slide into the box trying to stop in time. Did my homework on all 3 and every time got no points or fine, just paid a minor cost of court. I was however very prepared with timing the light, stopping distances and how fast you needed to decelerate. I also had witnesses including two friends parent who lived within blocks of two of the intersections. They had both had tickets at those same locations. One of the lights actually got adjusted before I left the region.
"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
02/16/2017 at 09:17, STARS: 1
Yes, you were! But these things happen once in a while.
I once got a DUI knocked to a careless. It’ll take me 25 years to get that again.
"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
02/16/2017 at 09:18, STARS: 0
I’ve heard of variations of that. It is just their way of brooming the tickets en mass. Presumably, they are tickets that don’t involve accidents or alcohol. But yes, take it and run.
"jimz" (jimz)
02/16/2017 at 09:24, STARS: 1
yeah, in my case it was a prohibited left turn. Definitely took it and ran. saved me 2 points.
"jimz" (jimz)
02/16/2017 at 09:32, STARS: 0
I’d think with the progressive demonization/crackdown on drunk driving, I’d be surprised if you ever got that again.
"jimz" (jimz)
02/16/2017 at 09:33, STARS: 1
ah yes, the “short” yellow. usually combined with the red light camera scam.
"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
02/16/2017 at 09:39, STARS: 0
Hey - I was surprised I got it in the first place. But I had just the right combination of a cop who felt sorry for my client, a prosecutor who was overworked and a judge that wasn’t really paying attention.
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
02/16/2017 at 09:42, STARS: 2
In my heyday, I was accused of exceeding the speed at least once a year. I usually availed myself of the “defensive driving” option which was available in my state once a year. It usually cost more than just paying the ticket, but it kept the tickets/points off my record which more than made up the difference by avoiding increases in my insurance premiums.
One year I was accused of multiple speeding offenses. I entered court with a contrite spirit and begged for the court’s mercy as I was ineligible for defensive driving and couldn’t afford the insurance if the premiums were to increase. The judge took mercy on me and sent me to defensive driving. When he rendered his decision, my mouth got ahead of my brain and I said, “but I can’t go back to defensive driving, I’m not eligible!”
The judge responded with something like, “I can do what I damn well, please! Now, do you want to go or not?”
Thankfully, my brain was back in control and I answered with a simple, “yes, sir,” followed quickly by a “thank you.”
"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
02/16/2017 at 09:45, STARS: 1
That’s funny. They used to allow judges to take please “under advisement” which meant they’d tell you to pay the fine and if you avoided trouble for a period of time they’d throw the ticket out. Because the state wasn’t getting its share of the proceeds on that, they outlawed it.
And one particular judge took the stance your judge did - he kept taking them under advisement for another year or so. I know because I got one for a client.
In their courtrooms, they really are gods.
"404 - User No Longer Available" (toni-cipriani)
02/16/2017 at 09:47, STARS: 1
Well I only followed googled instructions, first by calling the court/clerk, found the contact for the ADA, and from there was mailing back and forth, wrote a long-winded letter explaining what happened, driving in the middle of the night from Toronto to NYC, trying to get to next stop faster to switch drivers, first time offence, blah blah. ADA just returned a plea bargain with zero points and parking offence and a court invoice.
First-timer luck I guess, I really didn’t have any idea what I was doing... but I’ve been clean ever since.
"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
02/16/2017 at 09:52, STARS: 1
There’s a lesson to be learned there: Research it and follow instructions.
I’ve spoken to quite a few people who got tickets while traveling out of state and have had varying degrees of success. Obviously, they have you over a barrel if they want to stick it to you. But then again, all they really want is their money,
"Dave the car guy , still here" (a3dave)
02/16/2017 at 10:23, STARS: 0
This was fortunately prior to cameras. Never have lived in any area of the country that had so many of those. So convenient for the NC State Highway patrolmen that used to sit and catch the cars crossing 17 headed to Wrightsville Beach. I often wondered how many tourists had a vacation ruined by getting a ticket while just trying to go have a day at the ocean with their kids.
"jimz" (jimz)
02/16/2017 at 11:19, STARS: 0
when did the law change? I know when I was in high school (‘93-’94) there were some of us who had tickets “taken under advisement.”
being classmates with the district court judge’s son had its advantages.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
02/16/2017 at 11:34, STARS: 0
A friend of mine got hit by an anesthesiologist a few weeks ago. She was sitting waiting to make a turn and the guy made a left across traffic and drive into her. Cop came, wrote her a ticket, her insurance handled everything.
She got a subpoena letter in the mail yesterday because the guy is challenging the ticket. She has to try and get out of work now because a guy making at least $250k a year doesn’t want to pay a $200 ticket. Diiiiiiiccccckkkkk.
"carzcarzcarz" (carzcarzcarz)
02/16/2017 at 11:34, STARS: 0
That’s a Tucker model on the right, isn’t it? Nice
Thanks again for sharing your experiences with us, I always look forward to your posts.
"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
02/16/2017 at 11:56, STARS: 1
Not sure. I was an attorney starting in 91 and I know we did them for a few years after that. Maybe 2000ish?
"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
02/16/2017 at 11:57, STARS: 1
Wow. And that’s what they’re hoping - that if she doesn’t show, the ticket might get tossed (since presumably the cop did not actually see what happened). I hope your friend goes, on principle.
"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
02/16/2017 at 11:58, STARS: 1
Yes. I have a turbine car model too but it is not the same scale. If I can find one, I’ll round out the trio (of cars I have written books about).
"carzcarzcarz" (carzcarzcarz)
02/16/2017 at 12:00, STARS: 1
Ah, very cool collection and good cars to write about.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
02/16/2017 at 12:45, STARS: 2
She’s definitely going. The guy admitted fault to her at the scene as well.
My brother had the same thing happen to him a few years ago. He was out on his lunch break and a kid blew a red light and totalled his car. It was an ‘83 Mercedes 300D turbo with a veggie oil conversion. He bought it off my friend for cheap and it was in immaculate condition. Folded the car in half. The kid said the traffic lights were malfunctioning. This is at an extremely busy intersection. Not only did my brother show up, but so did five witnesses. The kids passenger also testified to police that he blew the red light. The judge openly laughed at him in court and chastised him for wasting everyone’s time. I think my brother is still itching to whoop on that kid.
"gmporschenut also a fan of hondas" (gmporschenut)
02/16/2017 at 23:32, STARS: 1
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This doesn’t work?
"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
02/16/2017 at 23:39, STARS: 0
It works - for George Carlin. Not for unfunny people like us.
"MechE31" (MechE31)
02/17/2017 at 10:20, STARS: 0
In Florida, in my experience, they pretty much always accept a plea for no points, no class and full fine + court costs if you’re record isn’t horrible.
Courts costs have been skyrocketing though. They used to be around $25 10 years ago when I got the bulk of my tickets, now they’re over $100.
"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
02/17/2017 at 16:41, STARS: 0
Is that the same across all the counties? I know in Michigan it can still vary wildly from place to place. But yes, one thing is universal: The Court “Costs” are climbing.
"MechE31" (MechE31)
02/17/2017 at 20:42, STARS: 1
Cannot say 100%. It worked pretty similar in the two counties I dealt with. I will say that after 10 tickets in 3 years, I started not getting pleas, except on the really really bad one that I hired a lawyer for.
Thankfully, it’s been years since I’ve dealt with a ticket.
"Stapleface" (patrickgruden)
03/09/2017 at 09:25, STARS: 1
I kind of fell down the Kinja rabbit hole and found this podcast. You definitely had some good advice there.
I’ve tried to fight a few tickets in my life, unfortunately for me it didn’t go the way I planned. I live in NJ though, so obviously every state is different.
First ticket happened close to 18 years ago. I was given a ticket for running a red light. I KNOW I didn’t run it because just 5 hours earlier my girlfriend at the time was in an accident where she totaled her car. This was also one of those traffic lights that are in pairs, where they’re in sequence so it feed people into the intersection and then the other light turns green. Another reason I know I didn’t run the light is because if I did I wouldn’t have been sitting there waiting for the second light to change for a good 10 seconds.
Anyway, an officer pulls me over to tell me I ran the light, which I did not. It was late at night and the local authorities liked to sit in a parking lot window-to-window and chat. I’ve seen it many times, and know they sit there. So he was distracted to begin with. Saw me in an intersection of a light that just turned yellow, and pulled me over.
So, I get my ticket and go to court. Officer doesn’t show up. Hearing is rescheduled. Officer doesn’t show up a second time. Hearing again rescheduled (as you mentioned before, that whole not showing up and getting out of the ticket thing is hogwash). Third time the officer show up, I don’t even get to talk, they rule in his favor. And now I have to pay court costs on top of my ticket. Score one for the township.
Second time I went to court was a couple of years ago. I was pulled over for getting in to a shoulder too soon to make a right handed turn. And I admit I did. It was about 15 feet too soon. On a highway that gets very congested. I figure getting over to turn was better than causing more traffic on the roadway.
The reason I wanted to go to court is twofold. One, the statute that I was charged with is 39:4–86 Improper passing in no passing zone (4 points).
That seemed rather egregious to me, especially with some of these lesser violations for what is (in my opinion) way more dangerous faults:
39:4–35 Failure to yield to pedestrian in crosswalk (2 points)
39:4–36 Failure to yield to pedestrian in crosswalk; passing a vehicle yielding to pedestrian in crosswalk (2 points)
39:4–71 Operating a motor vehicle on a sidewalk (2 points)
39:4–129 Leaving the scene of an accident – no personal injury (2 points)
This was an offense that I felt did not deserve a 4 point ticket. Oh, and the icing is that this roadway was in a NJ designated “Safe Corridor”, where traffic fines are doubled, so the cost of the ticket was $300. Funny thing about that. This “Safe Corridor” is only in this township, even though this road runs through about 20 different towns. One might think this is a revenue generator (nah, how could that be!)
For this case I procured the services of a traffic attorney, as I wanted all the help I could get to get this ticket to a more manageable point total. So, court day arrives and I talk with the attorney and he flat out tells me this township uses traffic court as a revenue generator, and this judge is a hard ass who gives no one breaks. My tickets gets plead down to a 2 point offense, but the judge saw fit to raise the price of the ticket to $500. So for the privilege of getting a two point ticket I pay an extra $200. Plus the $300 in court costs. And the attorney fees. That was an expensive day.
Moral of this story I guess. You can go in armed with all the information you want, and even have an attorney. But sometimes it just doesn’t matter.
"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
03/09/2017 at 09:32, STARS: 1
You are right.
In MICH, when they reduce the points they usually just leave the fines as is. But I wouldn’t be surprised if they start jacking those in exchange for lower points. Most people would do it so why not? (I’m not saying they are right - I’m just stating that they are motivated by $.)
"Diana" (diana0625)
06/19/2017 at 12:08, STARS: 0
hello steve,
I just got my first ticket event though this was not a speeding ticket cop pull me over for driving through a safety zone when I turn left on a light. is there any way I can reduced this if I go to court?.
"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
06/19/2017 at 12:51, STARS: 0
All of the same advice applies - whether a speeding ticket or otherwise.