by "OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
Published 02/22/2017 at 21:45
by "OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
Published 02/22/2017 at 21:45
No Tags
STARS: 6
well the final numbers are in. there is still a large pay gap.
So i’m sure alot of you are like so whats the problem?!? u a dumb mother f’r?!? maybe i am, but I like what I do. I can OPPO during the day, but I work hard. I will get to design hotels, restaurants, condos where I am. Or I could just do houses, but get paid more to do it. I would be happy just doing the houses, but i’m afraid I’d always be thinking I’m be missing out. At this point in my career, if I dont get the experience in commercial architecture, I probably never will. My dream is to do a large resort/hotel on Cape Cod, and with the residential job, I’d most likely be giving that up. But I’d be getting paid a lot more to do it. The commute would be 100x better as well.
My boss talked about how hes looking for a path to not necessarily retirement but to be in a position where he can just pull clients in and oversee operations but not really have to do that crappy parts in the next 5-10 years. He said he thinks I’m a great designer and could take over part of the company. I like how there is some sort of path laid out for me, which I don’t really think would happen at the other place. We also got a great job doing a beachfront restaurant yesterday. That is something I’m excited to be a part of. He said he would give me merit based raises but couldn’t really promise any sort of schedule. I’m just having a hard time walking away from the money. Money doesn;t buy happiness, but it does buy an WRX and look at how happy he is
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old post
So I talked to my boss this afternoon. I told him I was happy working here but received an offer for another position. It would be a financial decision to move and that I would probably prefer the work here but I cannot pass on this type of pay change. He said this is the worst timing as we need more help in the office and he is also going thru chemo which I did not know about. He said he doubts he can afford to match but needs a night to think it over. I agreed to that. My concern now is if he does match, that he will not be happy about it and will make for an uneasy work environment.
OLD POSTs:
THE OFFERS IN 32% INCREASE IN PAY.
reasons to stay:
my boss would value and my architectural stamp when I get it.
we do a variety of projects, multi family, single family, hotel renovations, healthcare renovations and some other random small stuff that comes along. The new job would be strictly high end residential.
The reasons to leave:
the pay
the commute
no more night planning board meetings
more people in the office (here is me and my boss, the other has 5 or 6 people) however that office is in his house, which is ocean front.
there is a ‘pub’ in the boat house
so while an RS is still out of the relm of possibilities, A toy would be one step close. I savagely miss the manual. for some reason this morning I was stomping the floor all commute trying to get the clutch for downshifts. damn autos
OLD POSTs:
I was hoping for an offer last night but they just had questions about my salary and health care costs (neither place offers healthcare) Where they came to me, I want them to make me an offer without me having to tell them my income. I feel like that will force them into a fair market price where as if I tell them what I make they will just try to beat it by a minimum increase to keep thier cost down. I could be wrong with
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I worked for this guy back a few years ago (pre-WRX days). He called me up and wants me to work for him again. I had an interview with them last week and they want me to call when I get out of work. I dunno what to do. I will post tonight with details so the internet can make my decision.
"Rico" (ricorich)
02/15/2017 at 16:16, STARS: 0
Why did you leave in the first place?
"E90M3" (e90m3)
02/15/2017 at 16:32, STARS: 0
If it’s a better job, take it.
"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
02/15/2017 at 16:38, STARS: 0
Good luck!
"gawdzillla" (gawdzillla)
02/15/2017 at 16:43, STARS: 1
if you are getting paid more & working less hours, take it
"E90M3" (e90m3)
02/15/2017 at 16:48, STARS: 1
Think that falls under the category of a better job. I’ll be working less but I’ll also take a big pay cut from my previous job.
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
02/15/2017 at 19:01, STARS: 1
At the time it was 1 of 2 part time jobs paying by 1099. I wanted a house and the bank didn’t like 1099 so I finally found a regular job with a w2
"Rico" (ricorich)
02/15/2017 at 19:41, STARS: 0
Would this be for consultant work? Maybe in addition to your main gig so you can generate some side income.
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
02/15/2017 at 20:59, STARS: 1
i already do that. this would be a new main gig
"Rico" (ricorich)
02/15/2017 at 21:08, STARS: 0
Hmm interesting. I thought for a moment this was a job you left before (I think you had to bring your own toilet paper? Maybe I’m wrong).
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
02/15/2017 at 21:09, STARS: 0
Good luck making a decision!
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
02/15/2017 at 21:10, STARS: 1
thats fucked up that you remember that. i guess that just shows how fucked up that situation was. the guy I’m talking with now was the job prior to the toilet paperless job. This job is design/build while the other was just design.
"Rico" (ricorich)
02/15/2017 at 21:15, STARS: 0
Bro I just have never heard of some shit like that haha, it stuck with me. Hell I was happy you were giving them your walking papers. I mean without knowing full details I’ll just say follow the money and the quality of life, your loyalty is always to yourself.
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
02/15/2017 at 21:43, STARS: 1
I was hoping they would have an offer when I spoke with them tonight but they just had questions about my healthcare. I’m sure they are going to offer me more money, they only downside is what I do now gives more opportunity to be able to work on more types of buildings whereas this new job is strictly single family residential
"CalzoneGolem" (calzonegolem)
02/16/2017 at 08:58, STARS: 0
I also remember that. That’s just too bizarre.
"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
02/16/2017 at 09:03, STARS: 0
You have to shop for health care privately? Oof.
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
02/16/2017 at 09:05, STARS: 0
yep. not fun. you get boned pretty hard.
"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
02/16/2017 at 09:06, STARS: 1
And not the good kind of boning either.
"Future ND Owner" (futurendowner)
02/16/2017 at 09:06, STARS: 1
You’re a fellow architect right? You can check out lots of free salary comparison sites (glassdoor.com, salary.com, payscale.com, etc).
I wouldn’t answer the question “what do you currently make”. I would instead answer with the salary you want based on the job and the benefit package they provide. Do a little research on what the market rate is both for someone with your skills/experience and for the position they are filling. At a minimum you should ask for $10k more than you are currently making (assuming equal benefits).
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
02/16/2017 at 09:12, STARS: 0
Many engineering firms don’t want to do design-build because the contracts put the contractor (the builder) in charge of the process. The reason it’s attractive for the client is that the designer and the builder are forced under one contract, eliminating the money and time costs of change-orders.
Also keep in mind that unless you are doing high-end residential or multi-family, there’s not a lot of money in it for the designer/architect. There’s not a lot of prestige, either, if that’s part of your considerations.
My wife chose to stick with commercial/government. She felt residential was a dead-end for her.
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
02/16/2017 at 09:32, STARS: 0
right now i’m doing multi-family. The other place is residential. I expressed my concern over the effect of the ecomony of thier work load. they said something like these people are so rich the economy is no concern for them
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
02/16/2017 at 09:51, STARS: 1
Sounds like the right clientele.
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
02/16/2017 at 10:11, STARS: 0
One of the reasons that they ask that question is so they don’t embarrass themselves. If you’re making $90k, they don’t want to waste their time offering you $80k. Virtually every company does this - - and it’s really a sign that they want you, and want to make you a good offer that you will accept (or at least close enough that you can easily negotiate to an acceptable offer). I hate having that conversation, as well, but I’ve always answered it, and it’s worked out. If they’re really trying to nickel and dime you, you’ll get a feel for that during the negotiation, and that would be a huge red flag for me, personally. The follow up question after ‘how much do you make’ is usually ‘how much do you need to move’ - and I’m always quite vague about that one. You can’t continue to negotiate against yourself. Sounds like it’s positive overall, though - good luck!
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
02/16/2017 at 10:20, STARS: 1
I feel like(know that) i’m under paid here. I dont want to tell them what I amke so that they can low ball me, but I feel like they could also just up it enough to get me to leave but still be lower than it could. I also dont want to through out something to high and have them just be like fuck that guy
"WilliamsSW" (williamssw)
02/16/2017 at 10:27, STARS: 0
Ah - that’s certainly an important point. You can always re-frame your answer in the way that you want - either “I currently make X but feel like I’m worth more” or find a way to make it clear that you’re looking for a significant bump. I’ve talked to a number of HR people about this topic in the past (my mom’s husband is a life-long HR guy/headhunter), and they can be put off when you flat out refuse to answer - but they’re generally understanding when there are some extenuating circumstances regarding why you’re paid outside of market. Frankly, any company (current or future) that isn’t willing to pay you what you’re worth, however you get there, isn’t a company I’d want to work for anyways, so I would give them a shot to hit your desired number if you like them. YMMV though - so you have to do what’s in your heart.
"Tazio, Count Fouroff" (tazio0625)
02/16/2017 at 12:00, STARS: 0
You’re so right — they say whoever mentions a number first, loses the negotiation
Here’s hoping you find a way to sidestep it without killing your chances if you want the job. I can’t tell for sure how good you think the new (old) place would be but FWIW my SO always says, “if there was a good reason for leaving, don’t ever go back”
Maybe you can say something to the salary question, like, “you’ve asked what I’m making now...well, tbh the pay is one of my big reasons for leaving” (?)
Best wishes :)
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
02/16/2017 at 12:05, STARS: 0
I never wanted to leave that guy in the first place but he didn;t have the capacity to bring me on full time. It was a new company, and now that it has had time to grow, he has a need for more people and the ability to bring them on full time
"Tazio, Count Fouroff" (tazio0625)
02/16/2017 at 12:24, STARS: 0
Cool
Also what Future ND Owner said...if you’re busted and can’t get out of it, maybe it’d work out to just come clean, give your best well-thought-out answer of what you need, professionally speaking?
Break a leg, as they say!
"random001" (random001)
02/20/2017 at 12:17, STARS: 0
I also miss the manual, in ways that would make my wife blush.
No, I don’t know what that means...
"Party-vi" (party-vi)
02/20/2017 at 12:21, STARS: 4
What’s your backlog like at your current place vs. the new place? It seems like your current employer has no problem keeping the work coming in, does the new place have the same ability to keep you employed and busy? Also, 32% sounds pretty good,but is it competitive or does it merely put you where you should have been all along?
It sounds like the positives outweigh the negatives. You should remember that, even at a small company, you are an employee and they have no obligation to you other than paying you for work performed. If your current boss’ needs change, you are gone. He will feel bad and sorry an all sorts of ways but you will be let go.
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
02/20/2017 at 12:42, STARS: 1
we have an abundance of work here but the city is proposing zoning changes and a 1 yr stop to building in certain zones. that would put an end to 3-4 projects immediately.
The new place sounds like it has a ton of work too but its all private residential so it doesn’t face the same BS that multi-family does. Its also more centered in wealthy towns vs the current office which is mostly a large city south of Boston
"Party-vi" (party-vi)
02/20/2017 at 12:46, STARS: 2
The rich will continue to get richer. I hope you enjoy adding pot fillers and warming drawers to kitchen designs ;)
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
02/20/2017 at 12:48, STARS: 1
haha, i like working with people who are excited about making a nicer home over people who are pissed off cuz they can only stuff 10 units onto a 1/4 acre insted of 20 (there shouldn’t even be 10)
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
02/20/2017 at 13:30, STARS: 0
The lack of healthcare seems odd to me. A firm of between 5-15 seems optimal, but the firm I work for is 28 people.
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
02/20/2017 at 14:21, STARS: 1
My current office is myself and my boss. The other place has 5 I think. I’d be the lead designer. It is design-build. I Think there is one other guy who mostly does project management but also helps with design and then a few other project managers.
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
02/20/2017 at 14:59, STARS: 0
Design+Build... hnnnnnggggg
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
02/20/2017 at 16:17, STARS: 0
Sounds like a no-brainer. Congrats!
"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
02/20/2017 at 21:59, STARS: 7
32% is too much to pass up.
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
02/20/2017 at 22:06, STARS: 0
i just dont know what i’d do if my current boss matches, i kinda doubt he will be hes going to be left with no one to do drawings.
"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
02/20/2017 at 22:10, STARS: 7
You sound like a nice fellow, but that is his problem and you should feel no guilt over it. You are underpaid and you have your family to prioritize. Not to mention you deserve to work at a place where you feel respected -- and based on my limited experiences in working life, respect means 1) fancy title, and 2) pay that reflects said title.
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
02/20/2017 at 22:48, STARS: 0
anks , yea, your right, its one of those things that is easier said than done.
"Honeybunchesofgoats" (honeybunche0fgoats)
02/21/2017 at 12:46, STARS: 0
I agree with everything Zoodberg said; 32% is way too much to pass up.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/21/2017 at 12:48, STARS: 8
Wow. Your boss is guilt tripping you hard with the cancer stuff.
Look, you absolutely don’t have to stay to make anyone else’s life easier. The pros you listed in the new job offer sound like they far outweigh the cons, especially since you’re afraid your current boss will grow resentful if he tries to match that offer.
Now, I’m not fucking heartless. I can understand wanting to be there to help support someone you’ve worked with for a while and whom you probably like and respect a lot. Maybe there’s a way you can still help while also looking after your own long term best interests. Is there a way you could request an extension on accepting the other offer? Could you go to them and explain the mitigating circumstances with your current job and ask if you can start there in a month versus in two weeks (or whenever you were planning on starting before you knew about your boss’ cancer)? Or could you get them to agree to let you moonlight for a month or two with your current employer while your boss finds your replacement? You could help him over the hurdles and help your current company train a new hire while still moving on in your new job. Ask your current boss if he would be amenable to that. Maybe it would help ease his concerns if you put in your two weeks, but then stay on as a freelancer or part timer for a certain time frame so he doesn’t feel like he’s left in the lurch.
It would be a LOT of hard work for you, but at least you’d have the satisfaction of knowing you did everything you could to treat your current employer with dignity, respect and kindness while also still taking care of yourself and your long term plans for you and your family.
"random001" (random001)
02/21/2017 at 12:54, STARS: 0
Hey! I added a pot filler when I redid our kitchen! Soooooo fanschee!!
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
02/21/2017 at 12:56, STARS: 0
absolutely but what if my current job matches that
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
02/21/2017 at 13:01, STARS: 1
i do stuff as it is at night (not office work, my own side work) so I could certainly do stuff for him. I’m unsure if i want to be limited to residential or if I should stay with the larger variety of work if he matches the pay.
"415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)" (415s30)
02/21/2017 at 13:05, STARS: 1
Yeah sorry but what a dick.... Oh yeah, we are short staffed now and you know, MY CANCER is so hard to deal with, I just don’t know if I could cope with another change! This sounds like a Seinfeld work conversation.
"415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)" (415s30)
02/21/2017 at 13:10, STARS: 0
Yeah you can’t just turn down a raise. When I was an apprentice in my union I worked with a cool small company, we did some shows on cruise ships and the boss was awesome, he kept dropping hints that when my apprenticeship was over I should work with them. The thing is, in my union you are either on a call list for a company or you are out there on your own with a number, and all the old guys have good numbers for a show dispatch. I was also offered to be on the call for the biggest company, although it is a cold place and not as nice to work for, I make at least 30% more and don’t have to worry if I will be working. Then just this year the cool boss retired and the whole company really changed. You never know what will happen, best to get going and move up.
"Funktheduck" (funktheduck)
02/21/2017 at 13:22, STARS: 0
I own and operate a small business. Turnover is to be expected. In the end you have to do what’s best for you and your family.
"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
02/21/2017 at 13:44, STARS: 1
Do not allow your boss emotionally manipulate you. Seems wholly unprofessional.
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
02/21/2017 at 14:09, STARS: 2
i didn’t get the vibe that he brought it up to get me to back down, I think it was more just like shit this sucks on top of this other stuff i’m dealing with.
"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
02/21/2017 at 19:18, STARS: 0
I would with whichever place gives your family the most secure future. That’s not necessarily the place that pays more (although often it is). To me that appears to be the new offer, but only you can judge that.
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
02/22/2017 at 14:11, STARS: 0
In the end, you have to do what’s best for you. If you’d known about the chemo before, and this offer came up, you’d make the same decision. This is a business decision, not a personal decision. You’re selling a product, and you can get more for it elsewhere. If you decide to take the new job, you could offer him a longer than normal time to find a replacement (if the new place is okay with that), or even offer to work contract nights and weekends for a short time for some agreed-upon hourly rate to help him transition (if you’re up to it for a couple weeks, and if it’s kosher with the new place).
"E90M3" (e90m3)
02/23/2017 at 21:56, STARS: 0
1. Just make a new post every time so the comments stay current
2. You’re right money doesn’t but happiness, but if you’ve worked with the guy before and you liked it, then it might be worth going back. Plus it’s not like you haven’t changed jobs before. It sounds like this might not be 100% of what you want to do, but it sounds like the benefits might out weight that.
3. On the whole money doesn’t buy happiness. At work we used to have something called a CNP (career network page) it was like an about me for the company on mine I had: “they say money doesn’t buy happiness, but it does buy an M3 and as far as I can tell that’s the same thing”
"peepeesprinkles" (peepeesprinkles)
02/23/2017 at 22:04, STARS: 0
I’ve gotta back this line of thought. While he may be a great boss and you guys may have a personal bond there’s a reason when it comes to working that people say “check your baggage at the door”. You’re #1 interest should be you and your family. You can always be there for him emotionally but the bills have to be paid. If he’s as good of a boss and person as you’ve made him to sound I think he would agree.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
02/23/2017 at 22:17, STARS: 0
You have a tough decision, but you need to be practical. You have a certain number of years of earning potential. In that time, you need to think about taking care of your family and planning for retirement. Seriously, you need to think of that now.
So, what gives you the best balance of financial security now and down the road? Also, you now have some commercial on your CV. I’m betting you aren’t burning any bridges by switching to single family residential. As lead designer in a stable firm, you will build a rep with a wealthy clientele, and that will serve you down the road by building your base of security.
Good luck. Either way, you’re in a good place.