by "Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
Published 02/10/2017 at 12:32
by "Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
Published 02/10/2017 at 12:32
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STARS: 1
My local dealer has a special event going on tomorrow to try and score some sales. I know because they mailed me a letter offering me about $3000 above book value on my BRZ, which is also roughly what I still owe on it. I’m planning to go see if they can magically turn my BRZ into a more practical and family friendly WRX that my wife could drive, too.
I’m also considering a lease, rather than buying. I have the Jetta Ute project and a motorcycle to satisfy my modification desires, as well as soak up some of the miles I’d otherwise put on the WRX if it was my only vehicle. Subaru has a lease deal going through the end of the month that would both reduce my monthly payment I’m making on my BRZ loan now, and the above book trade-in offer would absorb the down payment with wiggle room to spare if they honor it.
I’ve been doing a lot of reading on lease vs. buy, and as long as I don’t plan to make any permanent mods to the WRX, this might just make sense for me. Consider that I’ve had my BRZ for three years, have 45k miles on it without a project car soaking some of those up, and I owe about what it’s worth, meaning I’ve basically paid interest and depreciation as though I’d leased it. I’m a car slut, and will likely be ready for a new daily driver in three years anyway.
Sadly, they have no World Rally Blue cars in stock, which is The One True Subaru Color. But my wife digs this grey one , and I kind of like it too. This was my second choice color for my BRZ since they look like mini-Astons in dark grey (obviously the WRX doesn’t). Plus my gold summer wheels for the BRZ will bolt right onto a WRX and look much better than the stock black wheels. Finally, I’m a Subaru Ambassador, and could likely get an even better deal because of that.
Worst case, they don’t work outa deal that I’m happy with, I walk out, and I keep driving my BRZ indefinitely. I could think of many worse fates. I don’t NEED to ditch the BRZ, which puts me in a strong bargaining position, unlike when I bought my BRZ instead of dropping over $1k of work on my P71 to pass state inspection.
What does Oppo think?
"Nibby" (nibby68)
02/10/2017 at 12:34, STARS: 0
lease a shiny new mustang instead bro
"CB" (jrcb)
02/10/2017 at 12:36, STARS: 1
I’d say go in with mentality you mentioned: you don’t need this, you’re just interested. If the numbers work for you, go for it. If they don’t walk away. Pretty straightforward. Pay the dealership a visit.
"BigLath" (BigLath)
02/10/2017 at 12:38, STARS: 3
Recommend LeaseHackr website. Goal is to get the monthly payment less than 1% of msrp with no money down. (I.e. <270$/mo. For a 27k car). Wrx have high residual, but you will need a good MF and sales price to get a good lease.
Do your homework. I just started leasing a 2017 Dodge Charger scat pack, msrp 42k, for about 350$/month. Can get some great deals if you are patient. Best advice is email and call around asking for sale price or people to match an offer that YOU send out. Try to get like 10% off MSRP (my deal). Might be hard with WRX.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 12:39, STARS: 1
I like the Mustang, but with a wife and her two boys, four doors are a requirement, or there’s no point in replacing the BRZ.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 12:39, STARS: 0
That’s my plan! Thanks for telling me I’m not crazy. Well, at least about this one very specific subject.
"SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie" (sidewaysondirt)
02/10/2017 at 12:40, STARS: 2
I don’t see how a lease would ever make sense on a WRX. Is there any car that holds its value as well as one? With most leases, you’re paying for the depreciation, but with a WRX? They’ll probably sell it off-lease for almost the same price as new. Also no hatch or WRB would be a dealbreaker for me.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 12:42, STARS: 1
You’re just cranky that I’m considering ditching the BRZ. ;)
But seriously, it’s a good point. I’d want to run the numbers both ways, lease vs. buy, to be sure. I consider myself lucky to not be upside down on my BRZ loan at this point. Its value has plummeted much faster than I expected, validating my theory that everyone who wants one already has one.
"Nibby" (nibby68)
02/10/2017 at 12:43, STARS: 2
Solution - TWO Mustangs!
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 12:44, STARS: 0
"Nibby" (nibby68)
02/10/2017 at 12:45, STARS: 1
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
"W123WRX" (w123wrx)
02/10/2017 at 12:47, STARS: 2
I’m not sure how any of this works, I’ve never posted to Oppo before. Anyway, I’m currently leasing a ‘16 WRX and it’s extremely sweet. I’ve got a base model with the minimal amount of port-installed options (auto dimming mirror, STI short-throw shifter, other things), and it’s a hell of a car. The lease option is great because they threw in the service package, which covers everything (even windshield wipers!), and the payments are extremely reasonable if your credit is even remotely OK, which I’m assuming it is if you’re considering a lease in the first place.
Having driven a ‘15 STI, I can say that the WRX is far easier to live with on a daily basis. The handling is phenomenal, and it’s much easier to drive than the nutty STI. I’ve spent a bit of time in a BRZ (automatic, unfortunately), and I can say that the WRX is a much bigger car, but it still feels light and very easy to throw into a corner. Build quality seems to vary. Mine is still fairly rattle-free at 15,000 miles, and I’ve had no other quality issues. My car has seen lots of dirt roads around southern AZ and lived to tell about it. Overall, I’d recommend it if you’re looking for a 4-door that’s cheap, really fun, and mostly easy to live with on a daily basis.
"BigLath" (BigLath)
02/10/2017 at 12:52, STARS: 0
This makes no sense. If the car holds value well, it makes for an excellent lease. In ALL leases, you are only paying for depreciation. If the car does not depreciate much, then your payments wont be much either.
So for this reason, WRX could potentially be an excellent lease. To make it an excellent lease, however, you will also need a good sales price (discount off of MSRP) and money factor (APR%).
"SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie" (sidewaysondirt)
02/10/2017 at 12:55, STARS: 0
I had fun in mine and it was a good car, but I never really got attached to it. Sold it last summer and don’t really have any regrets about that. Might consider buying another one when they get cheaper, but probably not. If you were getting rid of an AW11 on the other hand, I’d be reminding you how shit it is with the engine in the wrong place and that the rust monster’s going to eat it alive next time it snows and that it’s a homicidal maniac that directs its wrath at its owner instead of the crowds like a Mustang does and advise you to sell it immediately with the caveat that no one would want it so the safest thing to do would be to just give it to me for safe disposal.
"ceanderson920" (ceanderson9290)
02/10/2017 at 12:55, STARS: 1
If you do it make sure you get a lot of miles written into your lease.
"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland)
02/10/2017 at 12:56, STARS: 0
I would probably buy the WRX because I tend to keep my cars for a while. If leasing I would be cautious about your down payment, you might get reamed by trading in your BRZ for a loan pay-off and lease down payment.
"PotbellyJoe and 42 others" (potbellyjoe)
02/10/2017 at 12:58, STARS: 0
That’s your value at the end of the lease. If the buyout is under what the car is worth you can sell it and recover it.
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
02/10/2017 at 12:58, STARS: 1
I had a spreadsheet to calculate total cost of ownership on purchased/leased vehicles, maybe I should post it up.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
02/10/2017 at 13:00, STARS: 2
Generally the way you get a good deal on a lease is if the manufacturer is running a special lease program where they’re throwing money at it to reduce payments. If you just walk into a dealer and want to lease a car without incentives it’s not that great.
Right now Subaru is running a WRX lease deal of $305/month, 3 yrs for 36k miles, on a base model, with $1,199 due at signing. Typically in these situations the incentives still apply with additional options but the payments go up with the price of the car.
With the amount of miles you’ve put on your BRZ, I don’t know if Subaru even would do a 45k mile 3 year lease. Some companies do 3 yr/45k mile but not all. If they do, you’d have that higher mileage factored into higher payments, otherwise you’d be paying a big mileage fee at the end of the lease.
Don’t modify a leased car beyond basic stuff like wheels or other things that can be easily removed, because you’ll either be doing all the labor yourself or you will have to pay a bunch of money to both install and remove the mods.
Honestly the only way this would make sense is if you were definitely planning to keep the car after the lease ends, and the only incentives available were on leasing, not buying.
But Subaru is also running 2.9% financing on the WRX.
"As Du Volant" (skuhnphoto)
02/10/2017 at 13:00, STARS: 1
I know because they mailed me a letter offering me about $3000 above book value on my BRZ
There’s going to be so much fine print and disclaimer attached to this offer, there’s no way they’re actually going to do it. Be prepared for this to be a massive waste of your time, and a very uncomfortable one at that.
This is quite possibly THE most common tactic for getting people in the doors of the dealership, and for many people once they’re there and see the shiny new cars, the blinders go up and next thing you know they’re spending $100/mo more on a car than they should be.
Source: 9 years in the car business.
"E92M3" (E46M3)
02/10/2017 at 13:01, STARS: 1
Leasing just makes sense if you plan to change cars in 3 years. Obviously check the math to make sure it works. Some cars you’re way better off buying and selling yourself in 3 years.
"DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back" (karsonkinja)
02/10/2017 at 13:01, STARS: 0
How familiar are you or your wife with the nature of the car? How well does she drive stick?
If she can deal with a ride so hard that it disassembles interior trim and a clutch with no feel then I’d say go for whatever is financially sound for your situation. I’m sure you can always do a lease buyout at the end of term. Leasing also gives you the flexibility to give it up if you or your wife hate it.
You should be fine no matter what option you go down. Financially these cars are solid.
But keep in mind they have quirks. You’re going to love it or hate it. Just make sure you know what you’re getting into. Love really is what makes a Subaru a Subaru.
"SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie" (sidewaysondirt)
02/10/2017 at 13:01, STARS: 0
You don’t follow used WRX prices, do you? Assuming a two year lease, the average resale value I’m seeing on 2015 WRXs (not STis, normal WRXs) is about $25k. Unless the lease payment is around $80 a month, it doesn’t work out.
"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
02/10/2017 at 13:02, STARS: 0
From what I have heard, Subaru Leases suck.
"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
02/10/2017 at 13:04, STARS: 0
WRX is one of the exceptions to the rule. I dont know if the new ones do as well as the previous Gen but they dont lose value. I would think buying it would make more sense but I’m not 100% sure how leases work either so dont listen to me
"Arrivederci" (arrividerci)
02/10/2017 at 13:07, STARS: 1
WRX and STI would be one car I’d only buy new, since they hold value so well - if they still offer the $3000 premium on your trade, that’s the route I’d take if I was in your shoes.
If you do end up with DGM for your color, check the paint carefully. My ‘14 DGM BRZ had so many flaws in the paint, it was actually repaired under warranty. I haven’t seen as many of the other colors with as many issues.
I also didn’t realize that the WRX has a 5x100 bolt pattern, that’s good to know in case I ever want to make the change as well :).
"BigLath" (BigLath)
02/10/2017 at 13:10, STARS: 0
So, if the resale value is that great at the end of the lease... Then just keep the car and sell it for the higher value. You will make the difference between what you paid on the lease and the true value of the car.
On the other hand, if the car loses tons of value, you are protected in the lease, because you can just return the car.
Do you understand how leases work?
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 13:23, STARS: 0
I actually wrote about this last year:
http://www.rightfootdown.com/cars/reviews/brz-vs-wrx-what-would-i-get-today/
tl;dr: If choosing between the two today, I’d pick the WRX. I love the BRZ as a true sports car, but after daily driving one for three years I’d prefer the extra comfort and practicality of the WRX - not to mention more power and space. Other contenders for my new daily driver are the Focus ST and GTI, but Ford and VW haven’t offered me a sweet deal on a BRZ trade-in.
"DasWauto" (DasWauto)
02/10/2017 at 13:24, STARS: 0
Just FYI, your BRZ wheels will not bolt on to the current WRX. They switched the bolt pattern to 5x114.3 from 5x100 on previous WRXs and your BRZ.
Also, I’d say buy it, but I may be slightly biased here.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 13:26, STARS: 0
Yes. What’s the point of having a fun car if I can’t drive it?
"Twinpowermeansoneturbo" (twinpower)
02/10/2017 at 13:32, STARS: 0
As someone else mentioned, WRX leases make 0 sense. Nobody leases those cars. Buy it and enjoy the ridiculous resistance to depreciation. Also, the dealer is not going to give you $3000 over clean KBB on your car. It’s a mailer to get you in the door and then the numbers are going to drop.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 13:32, STARS: 0
I wasn’t even considering swapping out the BRZ until that letter came in the mail from Subaru with the above market trade-in offer. The idea is to make it cost little or nothing out of pocket. And the lease and APR deals you mentioned are dead on - that’s what I’m seeing too.
I also know myself. I’ve never kept my cars for years and years. I think my BRZ is currently tied with my first car, a Pontiac 6000LE, for the car I’ve owned the longest, and I only kept the Pontiac that long because I was a poor college student who couldn’t afford anything else.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 13:33, STARS: 0
In which case I keep on driving my BRZ a few more years. No big deal.
"W123WRX" (w123wrx)
02/10/2017 at 13:33, STARS: 1
Ha! Your article is actually one of the reasons that I decided to get the car. Thanks!
I will say that it’s not the easiest manual to drive; the clutch is a bit heavy and a little vague, as other reviews will state. I’m sure you’re familiar with it. If your wife isn’t into that, maybe check out the CVT version, the Premium, I think? I’ve heard positive and negative reviews on the CVT in the WRX, but maybe it would be worth driving one just for the heck of it.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 13:36, STARS: 1
I actually wrote an in-depth comparison of the WRX and BRZ a year ago.
http://www.rightfootdown.com/cars/reviews/brz-vs-wrx-what-would-i-get-today/
There have been some minor improvements for 2017 but nothing huge, like the 2018 model may be. The WRX may be harsh by some standards, but it rides much better than my BRZ, I assure you! My wife can drive stick, but the position of the shifter in the BRZ hurts her to shift. The WRX is taller, and the shifter down lower, which doesn’t cause her that pain. But making sure she can drive it is definitely a requirement.
"Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever" (superchan7)
02/10/2017 at 13:37, STARS: 0
Yup, there isn’t $3k of profit to be made in flipping your BRZ. Crack pipe.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 13:39, STARS: 1
Ah - good to know. Fortunately, 5x100 fits the Jetta, so the shiny gold wheels can go on the Smyth Ute! :D
Hmm, actually, I’m not sure if that’s true for the WRX or not. The STi went up to 5x114.3 but I’m seeing the WRX still listed with 5x100 from 2002 on. Need more research.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 13:44, STARS: 1
And if they drop too far, I walk right back out the door. There’s nothing wrong with the BRZ and no reason I can’t keep driving it at least another couple of years.
Good point on depreciation, though. I’ll do some searches for 2015 WRXs and see how they price out compared to new models to get a better idea of depreciation where I live.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 13:47, STARS: 1
Glad I could help with your decision! :)
I know CVTs aren’t terrible these days. I recently drove a Nissan Pathfinder CVT and it didn’t bother me at all. But I actually met a guy because my BRZ caught and passed his WRX at a track day. I talked with him later and found that his WRX was a CVT, and being an ex-cop he has a clue how to drive fast. If a manual BRZ is faster than a WRX CVT, fuhgeddaboutit!
"ceanderson920" (ceanderson9290)
02/10/2017 at 13:50, STARS: 0
exactly I leased my mazda and I got 15k miles a year, some things changed so now I have to drive it around 60 miles a day. I have had it for a year and a half and I have put about 28k on it. The lower payments are a plus but I am going to have to buy the car at the end of my lease otherwise I am going to be fucked with all the extra miles.
"VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely" (vajazzlemcdildertits)
02/10/2017 at 13:55, STARS: 0
They’re updating the WRX for 2018 model year. If they’re selling the 2017s, and you don’t have to buy, why not wait for the updated one? Price won’t matter if you don’t get what you want - well, assuming you want the newer one.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 13:58, STARS: 0
I’m indifferent whether it’s the new or old one. The spendthrift in me would rather get a better deal on the old one.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 14:01, STARS: 2
The 2015 WRXs near me are running around $4k less than the new ones I’m looking at. Over a three year lease, I’d spend roughly $10k. I just put in a loan application with my credit union for a purchase, rather than lease, to see what they can do for me.
You’re not the only one to point out how well a WRX keeps its value. So to everyone who did - good catch, and thanks!
"DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back" (karsonkinja)
02/10/2017 at 14:05, STARS: 0
Well that’s fantastic then. You know what you’re getting into, your wife is used to the kind of car, an you seem to have a pretty good idea of what you want (this is the most important). I say if they give you what you’re looking for then do it, but I’m just a guy on the internet.
The 2018 looks to have some great NVH improvements and based on the wind and tire noise I get inside the car it may be worth it if you’re sensitive to that kind of thing. Sometimes I wish I had waited to buy a ‘16 with the better head unit and the limited trim level instead of a base with the extended warranty. But its a passing feeling. I don’t have any “regrets” because there is just nothing else like it.
"DrScientist" (DrScientist)
02/10/2017 at 14:05, STARS: 0
knowing how subarus seem to be holding their value... it may be worth it to lease it based on the buyback price. if youre not scared of selling it yourself and/or you may be planning on keeping it for a long time, the real market prices may be better than what they present in their offer.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 14:08, STARS: 1
NVH? Dude, I drive a BRZ. With a Nameless axle-back. :D (Which would be replaced by the stock muffler for trade-in, of course.) The WRX feels downright refined in comparison.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 14:13, STARS: 0
I priced out 2015 WRXs (first year of the current generation) going for around $22-23k. The ones I’m looking at are in the $26-27k range, so that’s about $4k depreciation in two years. $305/mo for 36 months comes out to $10,980. Even after the 2018 models come out, I doubt I’ll lose $10k of value on a WRX in three years the way I did on my BRZ. So I’m leaning against leasing at this point.
But really, it all comes down to what the dealer is willing to do for me. If they can’t make the numbers work, I drive my BRZ home and continue to enjoy it for a while.
"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
02/10/2017 at 14:14, STARS: 1
I’m a fan of leasing if it makes sense for the situation. We generally lease cars for my wife because she’s been lucky to have a short commute and put really low miles on her car. So we do a 3 year/30k mile lease and save some coin that way. She drives a ‘16 Impreza Limited hatch, which we leased last April. 10 months later she has 6200 miles on it. Over the summer we were doing a lot of driving to visit family in other parts of the state and visiting our wedding venue and whatnot, and she was all worried that she was putting too many miles on it. So much for that!
For you, if you’re going to average 15k miles a year, I wouldn’t mess with leasing.
You also have to look at—regardless of whatever deals there are—what makes sense. If you like your BRZ and weren’t planning to get rid of it, so what if there’s some good trade offer right now? You’d still have to buy a new car and start the cycle of paying for it over again. Whereas your BRZ has 3 years worth of paying-for already done. Maybe you keep it another couple years and sure it’s worth less at that point but you also would owe a lot less on it.
"E92M3" (E46M3)
02/10/2017 at 14:24, STARS: 0
Realize they send those letters all the time to make people consider getting a new car. Often quoting a new car at a lower monthly payment than your used car. That gets you into the dealership, where they then “appraise” your car while you test drive the shiny new one. Very rarely do they give you the quoted price for your old one. It could be $3k UNDER market value, but people still fall for it, because they fell in love on the test drive.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 14:29, STARS: 1
And that’s exactly the plan if the numbers don’t work out in my favor. I expect to put fewer miles on my daily driver (BRZ or WRX) once I get the Jetta on the road, first as a commuter and then as a Smyth Ute, so I could probably make the mileage work.
The major reason to switch cars is that when I bought my BRZ I was living the single life in an apartment. Now I’m married, she has two kids, and we have a house. Life has changed and a more practical car would make more sense. But I’m also not going to take a bath on the BRZ’s resale value, either. That’s mainly why I haven’t switched cars already - with a trade-in or private sale canceling out the loan, I’d still need to come up with a down payment and start over, which isn’t worth it.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 14:30, STARS: 0
Yep, I’m fully aware. I’ve driven a WRX. I enjoyed it. It’s high on my list of BRZ replacements. But if they don’t make the numbers work for me, I keep on driving the BRZ.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 14:52, STARS: 0
Tire Rack confirms your info, and I trust them more than the other web sites I saw. Bummer, but I could at least sell the wheels.
"DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back" (karsonkinja)
02/10/2017 at 14:57, STARS: 1
I’ve never driven a BRZ so I have no idea haha
I’ve always wanted to drive one because of the allure of a pure driving experience. I’ve read that Subaru made the WRX to be faster in every single way, but it can feel heavy into turns and the seating position is surprisingly high. But I have days where I wish for more torque (or at least a flatter torque curve. I hate the dip.) So I know I would feel wanting in a BRZ. It’s almost as if there’s no perfect vehicle because everything is built to a compromise...
But more seriously you sound like you’re in a great position that has no bad decisions, which is great, no regrets.
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
02/10/2017 at 15:12, STARS: 0
for whatever that’s worth. meh.
"benjrblant" (benjblant)
02/10/2017 at 15:13, STARS: 0
Oh, you really can’t see those very well. dammit kinja.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 15:13, STARS: 2
It’s definitely a more pure sports car experience. That’s both a good thing and a bad thing. It’s great on a track or a twisty road with no traffic. It’s a bad thing for stop and go traffic and commuting. I’m not convinced that a WRX is faster than my BRZ in the corners. Stock vs. stock, yes, because of the narrow Prius tires they come with from the factory. But I’ve run Michelin Pilot Super Sports the same size as the WRX’s the last two summers, and I’m pretty sure the BRZ has the handling edge (and braking, with the sticky tires and lighter weight).
You think the WRX has a torque dip? It’s even worse in the BRZ without a turbo to help out! Then again, COBB makes an excellent tuner for the WRX with many programs available to help with that.
But you’re right - I’m in a good position and win either way. I also just found a 2015 WRX in their used inventory that might be a good bet if numbers don’t work out for a new car. It’s also World Rally Blue. :)
"DasWauto" (DasWauto)
02/10/2017 at 15:23, STARS: 1
I would hope it confirmed that info, I just bought two sets of 5x114 wheels for mine. :)
"VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely" (vajazzlemcdildertits)
02/10/2017 at 15:36, STARS: 0
A perfectly legitimate observation. I like the grey. How are you liking being a Subaru Ambassador?
"DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back" (karsonkinja)
02/10/2017 at 15:43, STARS: 0
Yeah I believe what I read was a stock for stock type comment. I have no doubt that with the “mods” you listed it’s would be faster through corners, but then again one could put wider stickier tires, better brakes, etc. On a WRX and I have no doubt it would keep up. But again I’m some guy speculating on the internet, and The BRZ would be more fun no doubt.
I’ve heard the BRZ has the same torque dip which is really intriguing to me. It’s so easy for tuning companies to get rid of it seems. What was the reasoning behind tuning the cars to perform that way? I speculate it’s for emissions/fuel economy requirements. But then again people don’t find a difference in fuel economy post tune so I’m still boggled. COBB intrigues me but personally my “plan” is to do big intake, full exhaust with a cat delete, upgrade the intcooler, and a pro tune to top it off. I’m not going for big power but a nice smooth consistent 300 awtq. Hopefully that’s not too much to ask.
Used could be the way to go, but when you start looking at your month to month it could not be that huge of a difference. World rally blue, dark gray metallic, and galaxy blue (lapis blue now) are the best colors on these cars. They really bring out the lines. I almost went for DGM and then saw GBP and never looked back.
Definitely update us tomorrow on what happens!
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 15:53, STARS: 0
I just became one, so other than a bunch of nice swag I can’t really say yet. I’m still getting myself set up to do the Ambassador thing well, like spam cards and giveaways. I’m a rally fan and help with communications at local events, and will spread the good word about Subaru there in particular regardless of which Subaru I’m driving. Fortunately, because I’m also a writer, I can still review and write about non-Subarus. But when I put on that Ambassador swag, you know I’m being biased at that time.
"uofime-2" (uofime-2)
02/10/2017 at 15:55, STARS: 0
You’ll end up modding the WRX, it’s unavoidable, ask how I know ha ha
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/10/2017 at 16:24, STARS: 1
Some mods are completely reversible. O:) As it is, I’m leaning more toward buying than leasing at this point. Many have pointed out that WRXs hold their value better than most, and won’t lose $10k in 3 years like my BRZ has.
"Vintage Bones" (unnaturallyaspirated)
02/11/2017 at 23:04, STARS: 0
I will let you you know in a year, since I leased a 2015 WRX as a business vehicle. My theory is that even if I buy the car at the end of the lease I could sell it for more. I am averaging about 10,000 miles per year so that should help with the resale.
"Vintage Bones" (unnaturallyaspirated)
02/11/2017 at 23:11, STARS: 1
What about keeping the BRZ and leasing the WRX? There isn’t much point in putting down a large down payment on a lease. My BRZ will be paid off in a few months, and I am leasing a WRX with one year lift on the lease. I use the WRX mainly for work and during the winter. The BRZ comes out mostly in the summer and fall, although I have winter tires on both right now.
I don’t have kids at home anymore so that simplifies things a lot!
"Vintage Bones" (unnaturallyaspirated)
02/11/2017 at 23:15, STARS: 0
I bought my BRZ Limited at the end of the model year and saved a lot of cash. I did the same thing with an Outback right before they introduced the newly redesigned model.
"Vintage Bones" (unnaturallyaspirated)
02/11/2017 at 23:28, STARS: 0
Having owned both for a couple years now, my opinion about their respective ride qualities has evolved as follows.
The ride in the WRX is firm, but controlled. You notice pavement undulations more in it than the BRZ, but it feels a little better over cracks and pavement imperfections. I actually think the BRZ feels a little smoother unless you do hit rougher sections of pavement.
Again, these cars are so different from each other in so many ways, and that was one of the big reasons I wanted to own both. The BRZ is perfect for warm weather driving when the tarmac heats up and is more supple, and the WRX is just an awesome winter sports car.
"Vintage Bones" (unnaturallyaspirated)
02/11/2017 at 23:33, STARS: 0
Where do you encounter a torque dip in the WRX? Sure, it produces peak power at lower revs like most turbo engines, but that torque appears very quickly with almost no lag and stays strong almost all the way to redline.
"Vintage Bones" (unnaturallyaspirated)
02/11/2017 at 23:42, STARS: 0
They share an engine, but the differences between the turbo version in the WRX and the naturally aspirated version in the BRZ are dramatic. You have to stay above 4,000 rpm in the BRZ to keep it on the boil, or you end up in a massive torque dip. In the WRX you can either just floor it, or downshift one gear and you are back in business. On the flip side there really isn’t much point in redlining the WRX, whereas the BRZ will keep producing power all the way to it.
"Vintage Bones" (unnaturallyaspirated)
02/11/2017 at 23:46, STARS: 0
Those are all really good points. I was able to get .9% financing on my BRZ for 36 months which made leasing a poor alternative to buying.
"Vintage Bones" (unnaturallyaspirated)
02/11/2017 at 23:51, STARS: 1
Practicality wise there is no contest between the two. But there is a bond that exists between the BRZ that is stronger than the WRX. Which is why it would be great if you could keep both!
"Vintage Bones" (unnaturallyaspirated)
02/12/2017 at 00:08, STARS: 0
I don’t think the CVT slows down the WRX that much. There are lots of anecdotes about a BRZ catching and passing more powerful cars on the track, especially if they are driven by a competent driver, which you seem to be. I have the manual in my WRX, but I would consider the CVT if I had it to do over again for the following reasons:
First, it is cable operated instead of gear operated in the BRZ, and not nearly as smooth and natural feeling. One of the guys that tested it at Everyday Driver likened to wrestling with a garden gnome on the other side of the linkage.
Secondly, there is noticeably more rev-hang when downshifting because of the square cut gears. You can defeat it with careful rev matching but it is still there.
And lastly, the clutch pedal effort is a little heavy at times a little vague. Not enough to be a deal breaker but it might be a hassle for your wife in traffic. The hill holder feature is nice though.
"DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back" (karsonkinja)
02/12/2017 at 00:10, STARS: 0
I was just drawing a parallel between the known torque dips of both cars. I’m sure the torque dip in the BRZ really feels like a torque dip and the one in WRX probably feels like nothing in comparison. But it still has one, and personally I feel it.
"Vintage Bones" (unnaturallyaspirated)
02/12/2017 at 00:11, STARS: 1
And that is one more reason I am hanging on to the BRZ!
"Vintage Bones" (unnaturallyaspirated)
02/12/2017 at 00:15, STARS: 1
I have noticed that as well on the BRZ. The DGM WRX’s I have seen look really nice though.
"Vintage Bones" (unnaturallyaspirated)
02/12/2017 at 00:18, STARS: 0
Well, there is a huge difference between the two, to the point that I wouldn’t be able to notice it in the WRX. I am curious to know what you are comparing it to?
"DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back" (karsonkinja)
02/12/2017 at 00:32, STARS: 1
Its just a perceived thing. Like If I floor it in 3rd or 4th my “butt dyno” can tell I’ve reached around 5000 RPM because I feel like it isn’t keeping the same momentum it had earlier.
But again this is all perception. I’ll give you that it’s a slight dip (probably nothing when compared to a BRZ, like I said earlier, I’ve never driven a BRZ), imperceptible to most passengers unless pointed out, and in day to day driving its really not a problem. I personally still feel it, but its not THAT big of an issue. I’ve also been told that a simple COBB Stage 1 irons it out anyway.
In any case, I was trying to speculate on why both cars had torque dips in similar places in the rev range. It was intriguing to me and I was trying to understand the engineering process behind it, if that makes sense.
"Vintage Bones" (unnaturallyaspirated)
02/12/2017 at 10:46, STARS: 0
I can’t really give you a definitive reason for the torque dip in the NA FA20. Some say it’s due to the following:
Direct injection and attendant timing retardation.
Intake acoustics
Tuning from the factory to reduce emissions
No Forced Induction!
All or none of the above! As someone pointed out on the FT86 board, the low and high rpm torque peaks are very high, so the dip is perceived to be greater than it is. The truth is that it is a relatively small four cylinder engine that makes very impressive horsepower for its size, but can never have the massive amounts of torque that a V8 or even a V6 have in comparison.
The 2.5 liter engines in previous Subaru’s I have owned have more grunt than this little guy, thats for sure, but even they don’t have an abundance of it.
I am curious where you can get away with flooring the WRX from third to fourth? I would be pulled over in a heartbeat for that! The cops in our town have a serious case of “WRX profiling “!
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/14/2017 at 09:27, STARS: 1
Too many cars, too many payments, and I already have a VW Jetta project that I’ll be turning into a Smyth Ute this summer. But the BRZ and WRX are both great cars.
No worries, I’ve come up with a solution.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/14/2017 at 09:27, STARS: 0
That’s partly how I got such a good deal on my 2014 BRZ in March 2014.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/14/2017 at 09:29, STARS: 1
Also having driven both, I completely agree. Unfortunately, here in New England and in my current life, most of my driving is what favors the WRX, and I have the BRZ. I LOVE it for bombing back roads, on ramps, and road courses, but 99% of my driving stuck behind dumb commuters who won’t get out of my way on crappy roads.
"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
02/14/2017 at 09:31, STARS: 1
Various tests show that the CVT is 0.5 to 1.0 second slower, 0-60. The shifter isn’t as nice as the BRZ, I completely agree. Rev hang is an issue, but can be cured with a tune. I see what you mean about the clutch, but I had no problem after a few starts with it.
"Vintage Bones" (unnaturallyaspirated)
02/14/2017 at 13:25, STARS: 0
Exactly the same with mine. I bought my 2014 in late June of 2014. It had been sitting on the lot for a while, lots of test drives (104 miles on it when I bought it!) but nobody would seal the deal, so the dealer gave my a pretty great deal.
"Vintage Bones" (unnaturallyaspirated)
02/14/2017 at 13:26, STARS: 0
Sigh....I know you are going to miss it.