f86sabre bait

by "ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
Published 02/06/2017 at 15:54

Tags: Planelopnik
STARS: 5

“Delta Prince,” a beautiful company Douglas DC-9-14 in 1960s livery.

Replies (32)

"For Sweden" (rallybeetle)
02/06/2017 at 15:56, STARS: 2

I can see the light chop from here

"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
02/06/2017 at 15:58, STARS: 0

is there a benefit from having body mounted or wing mounted engines?

"jimz" (jimz)
02/06/2017 at 15:59, STARS: 6

WHAT? I’M IN THE LAST ROW, I DIDN’T HEAR WHAT YOU SAID.

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
02/06/2017 at 16:04, STARS: 1

Worst seats ever.

"Mercedes Streeter" (smart)
02/06/2017 at 16:05, STARS: 0

*Click* - *Right Click* - *Save Image As*

"Mercedes Streeter" (smart)
02/06/2017 at 16:07, STARS: 2

Best seats are right in front of the nacelle. You get to watch the pretty engine run!

"Jcarr" (jcarr)
02/06/2017 at 16:11, STARS: 1

No kidding

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines_Flight_1288

"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
02/06/2017 at 16:16, STARS: 2

Apart from any engineering problems that they might address in specific aircraft, the following:

Wing mounted: Easier maintenance, less weight towards the tail.

Tail mounted: Greater maneuverability because the wings aren’t cluttered up with engines and the weight of the engines is further inboard, Generally (unless you have the bad luck to be in the back rows to the pictured DC-9) quieter cabin, especially in the smaller jets where everything is naturally closer together.

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
02/06/2017 at 16:19, STARS: 0

Though I’m no aerodynamicist, it does allow you to have a clean wing. And the wing doesn’t have to bear the weight of the engines. But there are other tradeoffs, I’m sure. The Sud Aviation Caravelle was the first airliner to use the configuration, and there is evidence that Douglas basically stole the idea. Douglas was going to build the Caravelle under license in the US, but there were no buyers. So they went about designing the DC-9 instead.

"someassemblyrequired" (someassemblyrequired)
02/06/2017 at 16:20, STARS: 1

It had a weird dark green billboard livery with Allegro (as XA-SNR), before it was written off after getting 300 miles off course, running out of gas and being written off in an engines out landing in 1996 (all survived). There’s lots of pictures online, but all copyrighted. Here’s a video showing it from Youtube:

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"Ash78, voting early and often" (ash78)
02/06/2017 at 16:28, STARS: 1

Great question, I’m constantly bugging my dad about this (he’s an aero engineer who spent 40 years in parts/sales/service). You want as much thrust as possible to be along the centerline of the aircraft. You also benefit from quieter cabins and better passenger safety in the case of an engine explosion. On the flipside, wing-mounted engines can generally be bigger (and in turn, more efficient), are easier to service because of their location. There’s really not much aerodynamic loss from putting them under the wings, which was a Nazi invention. The US and Brits loved integrating them into the wings, but it just didn’t work as well.

"Ash78, voting early and often" (ash78)
02/06/2017 at 16:28, STARS: 0

Great question, I’m constantly bugging my dad about this (he’s an aero engineer who spent 40 years in parts/sales/service). You want as much thrust as possible to be along the centerline of the aircraft. You also benefit from quieter cabins and better passenger safety in the case of an engine explosion. On the flipside, wing-mounted engines can generally be bigger (and in turn, more efficient), are easier to service because of their location. There’s really not much aerodynamic loss from putting them under the wings, which was a Nazi invention. The US and Brits loved integrating them into the wings, but it just didn’t work as well.

"someassemblyrequired" (someassemblyrequired)
02/06/2017 at 16:28, STARS: 1

Less FOD risk (i.e. crap getting sucked into the engines) since higher off the ground and defended somewhat by the wings. Front of cabin is quieter, one engine out you get less yaw. Drawbacks are a lot of weight in the back, noisy in last few rows, wing can restrict airflow into the intakes.

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
02/06/2017 at 16:29, STARS: 1

Link to full size image

"Mercedes Streeter" (smart)
02/06/2017 at 16:33, STARS: 0

Oh you know how to spoil me lol. Danke! :)

"someassemblyrequired" (someassemblyrequired)
02/06/2017 at 16:38, STARS: 1

The DC-9 (along with the 727 and other T-tailed airplanes) owe a lot of credit to the BAC-111 - an accident during flight testing showed a deep stall problem with the T-tail. The head of BAC at the time, Sir George Edwards, ordered his staff to share all the data they had with all other manufacturers working on a similar T-tail design, since the phenomenon was one that had not been previously encountered.

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
02/06/2017 at 16:38, STARS: 0

The DC-9 had strayed some 300 miles off course on a flight from Orlando to Cancun. Because the aircraft was low on fuel, the crew chose to divert to Tampico. But when the aircraft was 65 miles out of Tampico, both engines flamed out. When on finals for runway 31, the gear was lowered. The sudden drag caused higher rate of descent and resulted in the aircraft touching down 300 m short of the runway. The nosegear and right main gear collapsed when the aircraft struck concrete plinths of the approach lights.

Oops.

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
02/06/2017 at 16:39, STARS: 1

Bitte!

"someassemblyrequired" (someassemblyrequired)
02/06/2017 at 16:39, STARS: 0

it’s like a 600 mile flight. How do you get 300 miles off course?

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
02/06/2017 at 16:46, STARS: 1

Ineptitude? It’s roughly twice as far. No wonder they ran out of fuel.

"someassemblyrequired" (someassemblyrequired)
02/06/2017 at 16:51, STARS: 1

if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
02/06/2017 at 16:52, STARS: 1

We also stole the 35º wing sweep from the Germans, along with more than 1,600 of their scientists and technicians (see Operation Paperclip , though the Russians bagged even more). Where would we be if we had lost the war? The Dash 80/KC-135/707 is a success story of captured data and lessons learned from the Comet, with its wing-root engines and square windows.

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
02/06/2017 at 16:53, STARS: 1

Best not to fly across the Gulf of Mexico on dead reckoning.

"someassemblyrequired" (someassemblyrequired)
02/06/2017 at 17:00, STARS: 1

One of those auto store dash compasses would have been totally worth the $3.99.

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
02/06/2017 at 17:06, STARS: 1

I was just reading about Portuguese navigators sailing around Africa and to India in the 15th century. This was 1996. I can almost forgive landing at the wrong airport , but this is just inexcusable.

"user314" (user314)
02/06/2017 at 17:18, STARS: 0

Here’s a BAC 1-11 of slightly younger vintage in Allegheny Airlines colors. My uncle started out as a mechanic for them up until just after the name change to USAirways. Also, 1980's USAir DC-9 is best.

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
02/06/2017 at 17:59, STARS: 1

Dat Lufthansa 74 doe.

"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
02/06/2017 at 18:46, STARS: 1

They actually started by trying to lease Caravelles... TWA took a few but that’s it. From then on, I don’t know the history.

Fun fact: The nose of the Caravelle was purchased from De Havilland and was originally from the Comet.

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
02/06/2017 at 18:58, STARS: 1

I always thought the nose of the Caravelle bears a striking resemblance to the nose of the 787.

"Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer" (smallbear94)
02/06/2017 at 19:50, STARS: 1

...It kind of does. Kind of like the face is too small for the fuselage.

Can’t unsee

"f86sabre" (f86sabre)
02/06/2017 at 22:09, STARS: 1

Actually, not quite true. The mains on the D.C. Series kick all kinds of crap into the engines. They had to,put a spray deflector on the nose as it would kick up so much water that there was a flame out risk.

"someassemblyrequired" (someassemblyrequired)
02/06/2017 at 22:32, STARS: 0

Can definitely see it now that you mention it. Reason why I mentioned that as an advantage is the gravel kit equipped 737s get vortex dissapators on the nacelles that use bleed air to try and keep debris out of the engines. On 727s these aren’t (weren’t??? - not sure there’s any gravel kit 727s left) required.

(Photo by Mikeybthepilot - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=10045217)