by "Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
Published 02/03/2017 at 20:43
by "Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
Published 02/03/2017 at 20:43
Tags: Facts trump the unconstitutional
STARS: 9
A report published today details the extent to which President Trump’s so-called “Muslim ban” executive order affected immigrants. Under questioning by federal judge Leonie Brinkema, a DOJ lawyer said more than 100,000 visas were revoked by the order — not merely paused for 90 days, but entirely rescinded.
Those visas include legal permanent residents, familial and spousal visas, and worker and student visas, reports Daily Beast journalist Betsy Woodruff in supplemental commentary to her report (linked below) on Twitter.
Just a reminder that people granted permission to enter this country via the issuance of a visa have to clear rigorous checks and vetting first. Visas are not issued on a whim.
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"GhostZ" (GhostZ)
02/03/2017 at 20:49, STARS: 1
Is the purpose of the ban to prevent terrorism, or to deport working immigrants? I thought it was a domestic terrorism/safety issue.
"DrJohannVegas" (drjohannvegas)
02/03/2017 at 20:54, STARS: 6
The stated aim of the ban is security, but talk is cheap. (and hard evidence on terrorism risk by these groups of migrants is light)
I think really about fulfilling a campaign promise which was tossed out as red meat to supporters -consequences, legality, and actual effect on security be damned - but YMMV.
"Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord." (ningaboss)
02/03/2017 at 20:55, STARS: 3
It was supposedly meant to prevent terrorism.
But it was so poorly written (intentional or not I don’t know) that nearly everyone coming from those countries were banned from coming to the United States.
Even United States Citizens and Green card holders were turned away.
Some who did make it were sent back or detained for several hours.
Such poorly executed and vague executive order.
"GhostZ" (GhostZ)
02/03/2017 at 20:58, STARS: 3
Evidence on terrorism risk by these groups of migrants is nonexistent.
But yes, I would agree with that. If we assume the ban was a fully successful intent based on its effects, then it seems like it was aimed at fulfilling campaign promises and increasing partisanship to more strongly bolster the Trump supporter’s swing votes.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/03/2017 at 21:00, STARS: 18
It’s never been a domestic terror/safety issue.
First, because domestic terrorists would be American citizens. Terrorists who come from other countries and subsequently commit acts of terrorism here are foreign terrorists.
Secondly, safeguarding against foreign terrorism was also never the goal of the ban. The seven countries included in the ban have not produced terrorists who have killed Americans. Nor were the 9/11 hijackers from any of those seven countries.
I bring up 9/11 because Trump’s administration cited it as one of the reasons the ban was ordered. That’s absolutely nonsensical. None of the seven countries subject to the ban were involved with 9/11.
"DrJohannVegas" (drjohannvegas)
02/03/2017 at 21:02, STARS: 1
I chose my words about the evidence to preemptively avoid a firefight... I’ve been out of the Oppo game, so I don’t know what the mood is and am not feeling a data argument tonight, but yea. Not a fuckin’ bit of it.
But, if I may: This is a core voter strategy, not a swing voter one. (Core Trump voters, mind, not necessarily core GOP. I’m still waiting for more data on that one.)
"GhostZ" (GhostZ)
02/03/2017 at 21:03, STARS: 1
By domestic terrorist I meant “Foreign terrorist conducting an attack on domestic soil”.
I’m well ahead of you on how it’s completely ineffective at stopping terrorists.
http://oppositelock.kinja.com/data-on-domestic-terrorism-1791819246
My question was more to try and understand if supporters of the ban are aiming more for the “deport immigrants who might hold jobs” angle of it than the terrorist or security issue, since this is the first I’ve heard of active revoking /deportation instead of just banning people from entry.
"19JRC99" (19jrc99)
02/03/2017 at 21:07, STARS: 0
Great car article....
"DrJohannVegas" (drjohannvegas)
02/03/2017 at 21:08, STARS: 0
I think a friend/colleague might be working on something which might get at your question. I’ll try to remember to come back to this when/if that survey data comes in.
"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
02/03/2017 at 21:11, STARS: 5
This shit makes me irrationally angry. The fucking UNITED STATES is terrorizing Iran and going right back around and calling THEM the terrorists! Now they’ve gone and reimposed sanctions.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/03/2017 at 21:13, STARS: 7
There were rumblings before today’s court session that the revocations were happening. And that people were being coerced by immigration officials to sign documents that meant they were giving up their green cards. But a lot of that rumbling was happening on unofficial (to journalists) channels. (I’m a journalist, I get how it works. You can “know” something to be true with 99 percent certainty, but unless you can get it corroborated with data or a quote from an official source, you can’t publish it. Or if you do, you publish it with a TON of very strenuous disclaimers that “it’s unverified,” “it’s estimated,” “it’s thought...” etc).
There are several reasons for the ban and you’ve hit on one of them: the fear that immigrants are “stealing” jobs away from American citizens.
Racism and islamophobia are also to blame. As is inaccurate thinking that immigrants have a propensity to be criminal, to be a drain on public resources, to be averse to assimilation (related to that is the racist idea that immigrants MUST assimilate in order to be “good” immigrants), and more.
What it all boils down to is scapegoating. And throughout the history of our country, immigrants have long served as the scapegoat for all our ills. We are a xenophobic country that constantly metaphorically wars with itself because we like to believe we’re not.
"GhostZ" (GhostZ)
02/03/2017 at 21:14, STARS: 0
The core trump voters are the swing voters, is what I meant. There’s a split between Reagan-republicans and Democrats, who always vote party lines, and Trump-republicans who always vote for Trump.
Compare Trump approval ratings vs Republican Party approval ratings to see the cross section of the two, though there are lots of electoral data from the election showing that a larger portion of undecided voters (~70%) were in favor of Trump’s policies but not polling as republican-leaning. Trump’s favorables, as bad as they are, are still higher than the GOP favorables for that reason.
The main reason why poll predictions were off in 2016 was because some states (like wisconsin) had hilary at a 2-3% lead, against a 10%+ undecided vote, which was split predominantly for Trump due to this swing split. Trump has a minority that approves of him and two pluralities that are fighting each other and are indifferent-to-unapproving of him.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/03/2017 at 21:15, STARS: 12
Immigrants drive cars. The majority of cab drivers in New York City, for example, are immigrants. Many of them are Muslim. They went on strike last weekend in order to protest this racist immigration ban.
"DrJohannVegas" (drjohannvegas)
02/03/2017 at 21:35, STARS: 9
stick to complaining about people sticking to sports.
"fintail" (fintail)
02/03/2017 at 21:36, STARS: 3
You clicked on it?
"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
02/03/2017 at 21:37, STARS: 6
Cars were invented by humans.
Immigrants are also humans.
"19JRC99" (19jrc99)
02/03/2017 at 21:51, STARS: 0
I don’t remember me saying they weren’t, but okay.
"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
02/03/2017 at 21:52, STARS: 1
Atlanta’s going to win.
"1111111111111111111111" (aaaaaaaaasssssssaaaasaas)
02/03/2017 at 22:00, STARS: 2
I post things not about cars. And this has a lot to do with cars.
I’m pretty shocked this happened. But not all that surprised.
"DrJohannVegas" (drjohannvegas)
02/03/2017 at 22:02, STARS: 2
I’ve rooted for the Pats my entire conscious life. My cousin got me into them (he was a BC grad) and Drew Bledsoe will always be my GOAT. I’ve watched them lose on my birthdays (including one when I had a SB-themed cake) and exulted in their success since the Belichick era. My Pats fandom anchored my other sports loyalties far from my home region. The Pats are the core of my ball-and-stick sports universe, for good or for ill.
On Sunday, I’m rooting for the Falcons.
"1111111111111111111111" (aaaaaaaaasssssssaaaasaas)
02/03/2017 at 22:03, STARS: 2
Opb had a knuckle dragger on yesterday that was supporting the ban. Once they told him about the other countries he seemed shocked and doubled down.
"1111111111111111111111" (aaaaaaaaasssssssaaaasaas)
02/03/2017 at 22:05, STARS: 2
Did you miss the taxi protest and 200k people deleting Uber?
"Vaginafication Nation" (beaverontheheath)
02/03/2017 at 22:13, STARS: 2
http://theslot.jezebel.com/this-2-i-m-going-to-keep-posting-this-around-the-slo-1791976700
I got ya.
"19JRC99" (19jrc99)
02/03/2017 at 22:20, STARS: 2
No, and frankly I thought the Uber thing was stupid. People have places to go and things they have to do. It’s not their fault.
"garagemonkee" (monke)
02/03/2017 at 22:21, STARS: 2
How do you deport 100,000 people? Where do you put them while you’re trying to figure out how to deport them. Some kind concentrated area? Some kind of camp? Or maybe you make them wear patches on their clothes so every one knows who they are maybe?
The fact that this is not far-fetched and people are defending it as OK are blowing my goddamn mind. Every day I am flabbergasted thinking “maybe this is the point where people will fucking wake up” but nope. Just Heir Trump and his executive orders. Another day, another dozen orders.
"DrJohannVegas" (drjohannvegas)
02/03/2017 at 22:21, STARS: 0
"Sam" (samwellington)
02/03/2017 at 22:23, STARS: 0
Temporarily suspended =/= revoked. Revocation likely the direction we are heading, however.
"1111111111111111111111" (aaaaaaaaasssssssaaaasaas)
02/03/2017 at 22:25, STARS: 1
Then you might be an asshole.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/03/2017 at 22:30, STARS: 8
I don’t think you understand. We’re ALREADY there.
Trump and co. were saying it was a 90 day suspension on travelers from those seven countries, however, today’s breaking news is that a Department of Justice attorney admitted in court that that was incorrect. People weren’t being delayed for 90 days; in actuality, over 100,000 people had their visas REVOKED.
Then, in response to the news, the State Department went on record to refute the claim, saying it was “only”60,000. As if that makes it better, in either case.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/03/2017 at 22:35, STARS: 2
Not all 100,000 had to be in-country at the time for their visas to get yanked, is my guess. The ones who made it to the airports (who were largely released) might have, in actuality, been the lucky ones.
"19JRC99" (19jrc99)
02/03/2017 at 22:37, STARS: 3
Fine by me.
"brightersideoflife" (brightersideoflife)
02/03/2017 at 22:38, STARS: 3
I didn’t think it would start so soon. I figured a smooth start and a slow slide into it with people constantly saying things like “well we need to wait and see, the last 3 months have been fine...”
"CB" (jrcb)
02/03/2017 at 22:41, STARS: 1
Canadians with Nexus cards and citizenship in banned countries are having their cards revoked, even after having been through a more stringent background check process in order to get those cards. It’s insane.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/03/2017 at 22:41, STARS: 1
Opb?
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/03/2017 at 22:43, STARS: 1
Hey dude. As much as I’m tempted to respond similarly, I like ya and really don’t want the mods to chastise you for breaking Rule 1. Dude is wrong. Let him continue to lay in the bed he’s made.
"1111111111111111111111" (aaaaaaaaasssssssaaaasaas)
02/03/2017 at 22:44, STARS: 1
Oregon public broadcasting. PBS.
"1111111111111111111111" (aaaaaaaaasssssssaaaasaas)
02/03/2017 at 22:45, STARS: 1
Kk.
"1111111111111111111111" (aaaaaaaaasssssssaaaasaas)
02/03/2017 at 22:49, STARS: 1
I kinda expected it, but not at this level. I figured some day one make a point things. Not let’s roll back the clock 40 years. But I think now it’s even more insidious. Push so hard and come back a bit. Makes them seem reasonable.
"Sven42" (sven42)
02/03/2017 at 22:49, STARS: 3
I wonder if they could figure out some sort of hierachy within that concentrated area idea that you had( that no one has ever thought of before). Some sort of symbol on that patch system you thought of. Yellow or gold is a bright color, maybe something in that color family so they can see it through the barbed wire or whatever it is you would use to keep the people inside the camp. Maybe like stars, sort of like the stars on our flag? That would probably be good.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/03/2017 at 22:50, STARS: 0
Yeah, I don’t think anyone thought Trump would come right out of the gate and do allllll the shitty things all at the same time, starting just hours afternoon by inauguration. But there you have it. :/
"1111111111111111111111" (aaaaaaaaasssssssaaaasaas)
02/03/2017 at 22:51, STARS: 1
It’s been pointed out to me that I can’t be an asshole, at least on oppo. Sorry.
"Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap" (ddadragon)
02/03/2017 at 23:04, STARS: 3
This makes me sick.
And he played right into the hands of radical groups.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/03/2017 at 23:11, STARS: 3
People also have lives to live, regardless of what country they were born in. And those people, who have already been vetted and granted permission to come to the U.S., deserve to be able to do so and to not have their lives upended because a racist doesn’t like them. It’s not their fault, either.
Also, a LOT of New Yorkers supported the cab drivers in their strike, enough that Uber faced serious backlash when they chose to be scabs and bust the strike.
And as far as you “want(ing) to make a statement” so that’s why you chose to make your initial sarcastic comment, I ask you this: what makes your opinion any more important than mine?
Before you answer that, think about this for a moment: Some Oppos are immigrants. Others are born citizens, but nonetheless have ancestry from one of those seven countries. Still others are Muslims from other countries. And others of us are Latinos, or women, or LGBTQ, or a combination of all of the above. Trump’s executive orders are having real impacts on our lives, on our families, on our friends.
I sincerely urge you to re-evaluate your “I’ve got mine, so who cares about anyone else” attitude because it makes you small.
You’re not the first person to make the comment you did. You’re not the first person to lament the intrusion of real life into Oppo. And every single time the mods have gone to pains to remind people like you that Oppo is an off-topic forum. And I’ll remind you that real life isn’t an intrusion. We’ve got to face it. I’ll continue to do just that by posting updates here. Feel free to leave the Captain Obvious observations that these posts lack cars to yourself.
"DrJohannVegas" (drjohannvegas)
02/03/2017 at 23:12, STARS: 3
Original report was “temporary suspension”, but at the (Virginia?) court hearing for stay of this order, govt witnesses stated 60,000 (low end, State) or 100,000 (high end, DHS, I think) were cancelled. Given that a few reports (and photos) show existing visas (with expiration dates in the next few months, not new ones) with voiding stamps and officer signatures citing the EO on them. Does that mean all were permanently revoked? I don’t know. I don’t get access to that data.
Part of this whole mess comes down to hastily written, incomplete, badly explained, knee-jerk orders implemented by a workforce getting competing orders from the Executive and the Judiciary. (Remember that on day 1, there was an argument about whether CBP answers to the Atty Gen or not.) Given a long leash, folks winged it, so differences in office/officer discretion mattered a lot. Even if the order meant “90 day suspension”, visas were cancelled, not suspended.
I for one, am fucking tired of government by executive order without a bit of consideration to unintended consequences. Fucking. Tired. Of. It.
"19JRC99" (19jrc99)
02/03/2017 at 23:16, STARS: 2
Are you fucking kidding me? So wanting a CAR site to stick to CARS and avoid politics makes me a heartless racist? That’s a pretty big stretch, and it’s the dumbest thing I’ve read all day. Where the hell did I display an “I’ve got mine” attitude? You’re jumping to conclusions, which is obviously never a good thing. I’m SURE there’s a politics blog somewhere else for you to post this. I come here to read about project cars and such. The only vaguely selfish thing I said was that people have shit to do. I never said I that I am for nor opposed to the ban.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/03/2017 at 23:18, STARS: 3
Yup. Trump is proving right all the rhetoric ISIS tells its recruits. And numerous experts have been saying the same since the EO was signed. All this shit is gonna do is boost ISIS recruitment and make them all that much more difficult to fight.
And then what happens after that? They’re going to ramp up their violence, which will further entrench in the minds of many GOPers the idea that ALL Muslims are bad and that all of them are terrorists in the making.
"DrJohannVegas" (drjohannvegas)
02/03/2017 at 23:21, STARS: 1
Nah man. Your comments, (plus the flavor of some of your other posts), makes you odious. You’re the one who self-labeled as “not a racist”.
Also, as Oppo seems to have a war about one a year on this issue: THIS IS AN OFF-TOPIC BLOG. THAT’S HOW IT STARTED. If you want a blog perfectly tailored to your own interests, the rest of the internet is out there. Heck, start your own Kinja. GL.
"19JRC99" (19jrc99)
02/03/2017 at 23:24, STARS: 1
Flavor of some of my posts? The fuck does that mean? Where did I self label as not a racist? It’s an off topic blog, but the aim of it is pretty clear. There’s other sub blogs, pal. The only reason I mentioned racism my previous reply is because the implication was there.
Jumping to conclusions, again.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/03/2017 at 23:25, STARS: 1
I wasn’t calling you a racist in my first graf. I was calling Trump, who signed the EO that upended all these people trying to live their lives, a racist. My bad for not making that more clear.
Also, directly from the handbook :
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As well as this:
Political / Sensitive topics are welcome, even encouraged, however it is recommended that you announce such content in the title and that all sensitive material is posted “after the jump.”
Finally, you made your feelings fairly apparent by so rigorously demanding, even now, that OT political posts don’t belong here. Where have your objections been on all the doggo posts? Or the dinner thread posts? Or the countless other off topic posts?
"DrJohannVegas" (drjohannvegas)
02/03/2017 at 23:27, STARS: 1
Suit yourself, sport.
"19JRC99" (19jrc99)
02/03/2017 at 23:28, STARS: 2
Okay, I suppose I was wrong on the posting. I apologize for that.
I just want to make it clear that I have no real opinion on the immigrant situation- not because I don’t care, but because I don’t feel I’m educated enough about it to form a solid opinion.
"19JRC99" (19jrc99)
02/03/2017 at 23:28, STARS: 0
You going to answer my question on what the hell “flavor of your (my) posts” means or no?
"DrJohannVegas" (drjohannvegas)
02/03/2017 at 23:33, STARS: 0
As soon as you demonstrate an understanding of the sentence (and, having done that, the entire comment) I wrote, I’d be happy to discuss.
But, until you read and comprehend the entirety of text in conversations, not merely the parts which make you angry, I’ll let you do you.
"Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap" (ddadragon)
02/03/2017 at 23:34, STARS: 3
And this is exactly why you can’t just sign shit without knowing anything.
Also remember when people said Obama’s amount of executive orders was ridiculous. Yeah. I don’t know if I should laugh or cry.
"Santiago of Escuderia Boricua" (sdiglesias)
02/03/2017 at 23:35, STARS: 3
oppo is off-topic by definition
"19JRC99" (19jrc99)
02/03/2017 at 23:36, STARS: 0
You literally recommended a post of mine where I flat out admitted I was wrong about the postings. Now, mind telling me which posts you meant? Because I don’t recall any political posts in my history. Please, prove me wrong.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/03/2017 at 23:36, STARS: 1
What better way to educate yourself than by reading these posts instead of demanding they not exist?
Read them. Think about them. I always add links to the sources where I got my info. Read those, too.
Read the comments these posts spark. For better or worse, I’ve got a bit of a reputation here, so my OT posts tend to generate VERY staunch opposition when people decide to oppose them. That gives YOU the chance to see how people who think differently than I do think the way they do.
On the flip side, my posts also tend to draw vigorous discussion from people who share similar trains of thoughts as mine.
Don’t use the “I don’t know enough to have an opinion” excuse on posts made specifically to educate. It’s a cop out.
"Santiago of Escuderia Boricua" (sdiglesias)
02/03/2017 at 23:37, STARS: 1
I’m getting more antifa by the day...
"19JRC99" (19jrc99)
02/03/2017 at 23:38, STARS: 1
I probably should, but I despise politics (hence my comments). Not saying they should never be talked about (Of course not, they’re necessary) but I avoid this stuff whenever I can.
"DrJohannVegas" (drjohannvegas)
02/03/2017 at 23:39, STARS: 1
I recommended that post because I respected your willingness to admit that you were wrong. I also did so after my comment to you was posted, and I don’t sneak-edit.
One can be odious (ok, perhaps odious is too strong a word, maybe “disagreeable” would have been better) without being political. I know this from personal experience, although I don’t limit myself to being odious about non-politics.
"19JRC99" (19jrc99)
02/03/2017 at 23:42, STARS: 0
You still haven’t answered the question.
I’m genuinely curious.
"DrJohannVegas" (drjohannvegas)
02/03/2017 at 23:44, STARS: 2
...Off
toPic
...Post
...Oldsmobiles.
It’s like people forget this.
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
02/03/2017 at 23:49, STARS: 2
Unless you’re a Native American, you come from immigrants. You’re anscestors would probably appreciate you knowing a little bit about what theu went through. Maybe have a quick convo with an immigrant, you might learn something and gain some new insights. Immigration, from a human perspective, is apolitical.
"19JRC99" (19jrc99)
02/03/2017 at 23:54, STARS: 0
Genuine question: Have I made a single negative comment towards immigrants? No, not a single one.
"mrsfinch" (mrsfinch)
02/04/2017 at 00:07, STARS: 2
I am not American, but even I recognized the name of Judge Leonie Brinkema from somewhere. This was the “somewhere”:
"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
02/04/2017 at 00:22, STARS: 2
I never said you disparaged immigrants. You claimed ignorance amd I simply suggested some ways you could educate yourself on the subject and why it might be beneficial. When you see it on a personal level, it is not political. Knowledge is power.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/04/2017 at 00:50, STARS: 0
That’s insane.
"someone on the internet" (acorruptionoflol)
02/04/2017 at 01:18, STARS: 0
One of the more interesting changes is how a green card holder can only stay outside of the US for 3 months as opposed to 6 months.
"lurkerbynature" (lurkerbynature)
02/04/2017 at 07:28, STARS: 1
This is why those spontaneous airport protests are so important. And all other protests calling out the regime. They’re seen globally. Pictures of US citizens in Detroit offering their protest signs to be used as prayer mats and giving devout Muslims a defended place to pray, large crowds of people protesting government actions that are prejudicial to Muslims, these things are seen globally an invalidate the narratives used by radical groups.