Political Post

by "Sam" (samwellington)
Published 02/03/2017 at 08:55

No Tags
STARS: 23

And it’s gonna be a doozy....

First off, people are certifiably insane if they think we’ve elected a fascist dictator. He’s a democratically elected leader in a country with checks-and-balances that has existed for 241 years and 45 Presidents. We don’t elect kings and there are limits to his power. There’s a reason that r/the_donald calls him a ‘god-emperor’ (and it isn’t because they are the ones who believe it to be true).

Seriously, my best friend’s family lived in Nazi-fucking-Germany as Jews. They do not believe that Trump is a fascist, and they literally watched Hitler’s rise to power and persecution of Jews , eventually leading to them living in a concentration camp in Poland. This is definitely not that. Trump does not have unilateral command over the entire government and he has not endorsed the persecution of any races of people - both primary aspects of Hitler’s rise to power. By comparing the current administration to literal Nazis, you are making incredible light of the people who suffered and died in concentration camps at the hands of a real fascist dictator.

This is populism at it’s core. He’s focused solely on the American people, not caring about anyone else. This definitely hasn’t been a popular belief in the past, but Trump has made it work with modern society’s views and won the presidency with it. Whether you like it or not, that’s really what the President is supposed to be - a servant of the people.

Secondly, 49% of people voted for Trump (don’t bother talking about him not winning the popular vote, that isn’t how our government has ever worked so it’s irrelevant). That means that 49% of voters believed that he was the right (or at least, less bad) of the two choices. The Electoral College isn’t going anywhere, but it isn’t some mysterious secret. It’s pretty easy for a candidate to tailor their campaign to game the system and win the presidency if they are competent. 49% is a large amount of people. Making a claim that they “are all racist, misogynistic, fascists” is unilaterally false and unjustified. Frankly, I’m appalled that people who claim to be “open-minded” will turn around and discriminate against someone based upon who they voted for. That’s just not right.

Hillary ran an absolutely shite campaign, focusing far too strongly on defaming Trump and promoting her idea that ‘it’s time for a woman to be in the White House’, while spending no time talking actual policy beyond ‘continue doing what Obama was doing’. Why should I vote for you Hillary? I’m not gonna vote for you solely because you’re a woman, and I’m not gonna vote for you because the other guy is an ass. Give us a shred of policy and tell it to the people who need to hear it. Don’t completely avoid states because ‘they’re a safe bet’. That’s the entire point of the electoral college in the first place, to keep states from being avoided.

Thirdly, why do we care about the Middle East/Islamic immigration ban so much? These are countries run by theocratic dictatorships, with legally-enforced discrimination - a straight up human rights violation. These are countries where my girlfriend and I cannot even visit, because we will almost certainly be imprisoned, and quite possibly killed due to active persecution of LGBTQ individuals. And on top of that, the majority of people in these countries support the   human-rights-violating Sharia law. America is all about inclusion, unless it’s including those who discriminate against others. Why should we support that? Either we are pro-women and LGBTQ, or we are anti-women and LGBTQ (Sharia law), it can’t be both ways. These countries need to reform themselves for the modern era of equal rights, and the U.S. being buddies with them and telling them everything they do is okay (*cough* Saudi Arabia *cough*) doesn’t help pressure them. This isn’t a dislike of Muslims, most of whom are fine people, it’s a dislike of Islam as it is applied to every day life and government. That is what needs to be reformed here.

And even if you’re willing to look past that mess, these are countries that are literally in the middle of a god damn war . And to make matters worse, several of the parties involved want to literally destroy America. This is not discrimination, it’s common sense. It’s a damn shame we can’t help out, but given the parties involved it is in our best interest to stay out for the time being.

PS: As an FYI to the whole community, keep this in mind - most people don’t form opinions based on logic or reason, they form them based on emotion and upbringing. Due to this, there is almost zero chance you can change someone’s views on anything, so you’re better off explaining your points clearly and reasonably. Keep your emotion out of it and be respectful. Give the other person the courtesy of hearing them out, as politics are not a black/white, us/them issue. Most people fall near the middle on the political spectrum, so their views tend to be a mix of both sides - slightly favoring one over the other.

PSS: If anything here doesn’t make much sense as it’s written (I’m talking grammar or punctuation here) or is hard to read, let me know.

PSSS: Know that I literally don’t hate anyone without a good reason (religion and politics are not one of those reasons, unless you use it to discriminate against others). Anything here that offends you is not because I dislike you as a person, but due to bigger problems within the institutions as a whole.

Replies (100)

"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
02/03/2017 at 02:08, STARS: 1

As I said in the post below this:

Supercharged Hemi V8

"Sam" (samwellington)
02/03/2017 at 02:09, STARS: 1

We should put a supercharger on America. How many liters will we need though?

"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
02/03/2017 at 02:10, STARS: 2

The best liters.

"Tazio, Count Fouroff" (tazio0625)
02/03/2017 at 02:23, STARS: 0

This.

"Wheelerguy" (wheelerguy)
02/03/2017 at 09:03, STARS: 4

Cubic inches. God, are you even American?

"Azrek" (azrek)
02/03/2017 at 09:04, STARS: 0

I had a friend get very political on me. I am very apolitical. Just don’t care...at all. I’ve lost track of who is upset with what and why...

"Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo" (thetomselleck)
02/03/2017 at 09:04, STARS: 0

P O L I T I X

"Stapleface" (patrickgruden)
02/03/2017 at 09:06, STARS: 1

More cars need to be in purple. It’s a fantastic color.

As for Trump, I do not agree with too many of his decisions he’s made up to this point. But I don’t even blame the people that voted for him. I blame the DNC for fielding a candidate so toxic that Trump was the best choice.

(side note: the two party political system of this country sucks)

"Ash78, voting early and often" (ash78)
02/03/2017 at 09:06, STARS: 7

I’m against Trump, but generally align with Republican principles (but not necessarily their implementation). However, I’m also a person who believes that character, empathy, and leadership skills go a long way, and those are both things where Trump seems to be sorely lacking. However, I totally agree with the Nazi Germany thing and there comes a point where — joking or not — it’s ridiculous to draw the parallels (hey, the internet did it with GWB all the time). At the same time, I do believe the world’s collective “Overton Window” of acceptable norms is being shifted more towards intolerance and bigotry, and not just subtly in policy, but in our actual consciousness. Hopefully we end up somewhere in the middle — not like Merkel, but also not like Trump or LePen.

"Roadster Man" (roadsterman)
02/03/2017 at 09:07, STARS: 14

I think you’re wrong that Hillary’s campaign focused on defaming Trump. Her campaign actually refused to sink to his level of shit-slinging, and her refusing to play his game is one of the big reasons she lost. When you just make stuff up, you make it tough to read the rest of your post.

"unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins)" (unclevanos)
02/03/2017 at 09:07, STARS: 1

Yuge displacement

"Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street." (demon-xanth)
02/03/2017 at 09:12, STARS: 7

I have to say this, in all of the elections I’ve seen in my lifetime, the outcome of this has been the most seriously whiny, petty, and straight up WTF inducing of all by far. There were no widespread protests when Obama got into office. The Bush/Gore election was tight and mind boggling with all the recounts, but people moved on and accepted this.

If it were Sanders vs Trump, I’m pretty sure I’d have easily voted for Sanders. But Hillary campaigned as if she was the one who is king, basically showing contempt for everyone around her and acting as the laws should not apply to her. And frankly, the idea of someone who believes that the laws do not apply to them being the one in charge of enforcing all the laws (such is the executive branch!) is a pretty scary thing.

I’ll say this, when it was McCain vs Obama, I honestly thought good things were going to come. Because even though I didn’t agree with many of their policies it felt like both candidates genuinely cared about this country. This election it was a crook vs a blowhard, and the blowhard won.

Car tax:

"Quadradeuce" (quadradeuce)
02/03/2017 at 09:16, STARS: 1

My grandmother’s family had to flee the Korean peninsula as the Japanese started hauling people off to camps. Her brother ended up in a camp, and survived because he had dual Korean and American citizenship. Most of their friends were never heard from again.

I stopped visiting the FP because the term Nazi gets thrown around a lot, especially by one particular author. These people are clueless.

As an aside, much of my family returned to (South) Korea after the war, and several ended up in Japan as well. My uncle, who married me and is still alive, watched as his father was hauled out of their house by the Japanese. He has been able to pass down a first hand account of those times, but he won’t be around much longer. After this generation is gone, I fear we won’t have perspective on what real fascism means.

"EL_ULY" (uly)
02/03/2017 at 09:18, STARS: 11

She assumed the majority of the US population was educated and healthy. Bad decision 

"yamahog" (yamahog)
02/03/2017 at 09:20, STARS: 14

>talks about horrible conditions in war zones

>Claims Sharia law is why people are being oppressed (more like if you think that keeping kosher oppresses Jews... But whatever http://www.snopes.com/2017/01/25/womens-march-organizer-linda-sarsour/ )

>Doesn’t understand why people want to leave

"whoarder is tellurium" (whoarder)
02/03/2017 at 09:21, STARS: 1

BUT MY EMOTIONS TRUMP YOUR EMOTIONS!

/tears

Nice post, Sam Stoner.

"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
02/03/2017 at 09:23, STARS: 12

1. I don’t think Trump is a dictator, but many of his beliefs and stated policy directions could be considered fascist in nature. While Trump doesn’t seem to harbor views detrimental to your own situation (LGBTQ), his vice president most certainly does.

2. Democracy does not prevent a nation from electing fascist or authoritarian leaders. I’m not saying Trump is like Hitler, but Hitler was democratically elected. The 1934 general election in Italy saw fascist win over 99% of the vote. To say someone isn’t a fascist or can’t be authoritarian because of Democracy shows both a misunderstanding of how Democracy works and an ignorance of well known historical facts. I would also like to point out that our checks and balances don’t mean anything if people in power ignore them. There have been numerous reports of both DHS agents and federal marshals ignoring court orders in regards to the detainment of both visa and green card holders at airports.

3. Simply being from a fascist-run nation does not make anyone an expert on identifying fascism, especially when in the context of their non-native land. In Italy, many Jews held high office within the National Fascist Party. Mussolini had close Jewish friends, and set up the naval officer training camp for Jews in Palestine which formed the basis for the Israeli Navy. The Italian fascists also set up special protection for the Beta Israel community in Ethiopia. It wasn’t until 1938 that the Italian fascists started discriminating against Jews. Even then, the racial laws were very unpopular among Italians. Mussolini believed that Jewish culture was integral to Mediterranean culture and believed Italians shared a close cultural heritage with Italian Jews. Most of the racial language woven into fascism is there to convince the ignorant masses to go along with their economic plans.

I’ll leave the political stuff to everyone else, but I think it’s vital to understand history in order to fully understand current affairs.

"fintail" (fintail)
02/03/2017 at 09:23, STARS: 2

And with DeVos, it will only get worse.

"Mercedes Streeter" (smart)
02/03/2017 at 09:24, STARS: 4

America is all about inclusion, unless it’s including those who discriminate against others. Why should we support that? Either we are pro-women and LGBTQ, or we are anti-women and LGBTQ (Sharia law), it can’t be both ways. These countries need to reform themselves for the modern era of equal rights...

Honestly, America needs to learn this too. Women, black people, and LGBTQ people have never been truly equal here. Sure, we haven’t been actively targeted with hate for the past few decades or so, but our treatment is still piss poor as compared to say, our friendly neighbours to the north or our friends across the pond.

And while Trump may not want to remove our rights, the rest of the GOP does, they’ve told us over and over and over again that they will too. So, I have no reasonable expectation to hope that over the next year, my job will not be able to fire me because I’m trans, or someone not be able to murder me because I’m trans (this is called the “trans panic” defense, and sadly it’s a defense that’s worked in a number of cases).

"OPPOsaurus WRX" (opposaurus)
02/03/2017 at 09:25, STARS: 3

My opinion:

They lost the whole thing when they screwed Bernie.

Being a woman isn’t justification for being president. If Hilary wasn;t such a POS she could have won. There will be a time with a female president, when a good female candidate comes along.

Trump got elected because people enjoyed the entertainment value.

People nee dot stop joking bout the whole thing and take it serious.

people need to stop being conter-productive, deal with what they have and work with it (smashing storefronts is not productive)

Reality hurts

"for Michigan" (formichigan)
02/03/2017 at 09:25, STARS: 3

Thanks for following the rules when posting this!

As to your third point, just because the countries affected by the immigration banned are Muslim-majority countries doesn’t mean that all of the people fleeing them are Muslim. Some people are fleeing them because they are not Muslim and have experienced persecution for their beliefs. Most people are fleeing them because of war. Should we deny refugees asylum simply because they’re fleeing a country with a discriminatory government?

"fintail" (fintail)
02/03/2017 at 09:26, STARS: 9

What are we up to so far?

Regarding Hillary’s idiotically managed campaign, no, that’s not it. If anything, she didn’t go after Cheetolini hard enough.

"Alan" (thefrostyman)
02/03/2017 at 09:27, STARS: 2

Close enough the exact things I said in a conversation I had on Monday, I wonder if you aren’t hiding under my couch. LOL

"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
02/03/2017 at 09:32, STARS: 7

They do not believe that Trump is a fascist, and they literally watched Hitler’s rise to power and persecution of Jews , eventually leading to them living in a concentration camp in Poland. This is definitely not that.

However, he’s certainly invoked quite a lot of Hitlerian imagery in his campaign, and he’s courted actual neo-Nazis during said campaign.

Trump does not have unilateral command over the entire government and he has not endorsed the persecution of any races of people - both primary aspects of Hitler’s rise to power.

Do remember that his Department of Homeland Security has defied at least one federal court order. It’s not that he has absolute rule now , but there’s troubling signs that he’s seeking it. As far as endorsing the persecution of races of people... while I’ll freely admit that there’s a belief that he “tells it like it is”, I suspect there’s still some dog-whistle politics being played, weasel-words being used to try to escape accusations of racism, because actually being a racist isn’t bad, but being accused of racism is the worst possible thing.

Making a claim that they “are all racist, misogynistic, fascists” is unilaterally false and unjustified.

Absolutely true, but can we agree that Trump is - at least on some level - a racist and a misogynist? And that there are actual fascists that have supported Trump?

And, can we agree that there are plenty of people who decided to accept Trump’s racism and misogyny, even if they personally don’t share his views? Not saying that they should have voted for Clinton - I didn’t (I voted for Jill Stein) - but they could have voted for Gary Johnson, or in some states Evan McMullin was on the ballot.

Frankly, I’m appalled that people who claim to be “open-minded” will turn around and discriminate against someone based upon who they voted for. That’s just not right.

The difference is that many Democrats and people on the left (note that I actually group those separately) are appalled by discrimination against people for matters of circumstance - origin, gender, sexuality, and in many cases poverty are examples of circumstance.

Conversely, actions and opinions are fair game, because they’re choices. (Yes, I know, there’s plenty of social conservatives that will come in and say that homosexuality is a choice...)

(*cough* Saudi Arabia *cough*)

And note that Saudi Arabia isn’t even on the list of countries banned under the executive order... I agree that Saudi Arabia should not be an ally. (Mind you, I’m of the opinion that the Middle East is a region that we shouldn’t be messing with in general, that our involvement in the region should be peaceful transition to local rule, and then getting out.)

"Mercedes Streeter" (smart)
02/03/2017 at 09:33, STARS: 1

Why not twincharge? This is AMERICA!!! Our freedom shall not be limited by just one charger!

"Thomas Donohue" (tomonomics)
02/03/2017 at 09:33, STARS: 10

Secondly, 49% of people voted for Trump (don’t bother talking about him not winning the popular vote, that isn’t how our government has ever worked so it’s irrelevant).

Actually he got 46.1% of the votes cast. And that’s not 46.1% of all Americans, just the percentage of people that voted. And 40% of registered voters did not go to the polls, which unfortunately is not unusual.

So, technically about 27% ‘of people’ voted for him. Which was less than McCain, and less than Romney.

He won, and that’s why he is president. I’m just commenting on the numbers.

"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
02/03/2017 at 09:34, STARS: 15

The popular vote argument is pretty valid seeing as he lost by a larger margin than any other electoral college victor in history. There isn’t precedent as you insist, this is a new situation.

Calling him a facist dictator is going too far at the moment, I’d agree, but his actions are certainly worth a few raised eyebrows. After all he fired the Attorney General because she disagreed with him. That’s scary. Honestly it goes beyond Trump though, so much of our checks and balances are failing because Republican members of Congress tend to blindly follow the party line. We’re about to have a disturbingly unqualified Secretary of Education in Betsy DeVos because not enough Republicans were willing to say no to Trump.

The immigration thing, fuck it if you can’t understand why it’s an overreach I don’t know what to say. Trump campaigned on the idea of a Muslim ban, Giuliani claims (and AFAIK Trump hasn’t denied) that Trump specifically asked how to legally ban Muslims, and this is what we got. The policy and the interpretation of the policy clearly favors other religious groups over Muslims, it targets a somewhat arbitrary list of nations under the guise of security while excluding nations to which people that have actually killed Americans in terrorist attacks belonged, and the current fight against the ban is mostly to help legal visa holders and green card holders return safely to the country they have been welcomed to. People here legally now have a legitimate concern that if they go home to visit their family they won’t be able to come back, and that’s a fucking travesty.

In addition, many people being denied entry are refugees trying to escape persecution that like it or not we helped to create. Your family that saw Hitler’s rise and murder of millions of Jews should recognize how deadly that is: at the time of the Holocaust some people sought asylum in the US, were denied, and ended up brutally murdered simply because they were slightly different than the majority in their home country.

I’m concerned with where things are going. I’m a Jew, I haven’t been targeted yet but I’m not convinced that the religious direction our government is going will keep me safe (see: Trump’s promise to open laws prohibiting tax exempt organizations from contributing to campaigns and Betsy DeVos’s plans to bring Christianity to schools).

I think everyone should be on close watch and should question everything. Frankly we should have done it with Obama and Bush and Clinton, but now is more important than ever because our nation is clearly divided and Trump is such a different person than any other past President. Acting like ‘everything is fine’ is, simply put, ignorant, and I strongly encourage you to reconsider your insistence that it is.

"EL_ULY" (uly)
02/03/2017 at 09:35, STARS: 1

Bears eat beets

"Sweet Trav" (thespunbearing)
02/03/2017 at 09:35, STARS: 16

You mention checks and balances. What happens when he ignores the checks and balances? He currently is. Multiple federal judges have put and injuction on his executive orders, yet the DHS is still being ordered to enforce it. The court has no power on its own, it requires the executive to uphold its power. We have a president who is willfully ignoring the court. This is unacceptable.

"fintail" (fintail)
02/03/2017 at 09:35, STARS: 0

Alternative facts. It’s 2017.

"Mercedes Streeter" (smart)
02/03/2017 at 09:36, STARS: 13

There were no widespread protests when Obama got into office.

That is absolutely untrue. From a 5 second Google Search:

http://www.revelist.com/politics/america-responds-obama/5855

"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
02/03/2017 at 09:38, STARS: 5

And in Italy the fascists had Jews working as high ranking members of the party. Mussolini had Jewish friends, and felt the Jewish people were an integral part of Italian culture. It wasn’t until 1938, ten years after their rise and under significant pressure from the Nazis, that they instituted racial laws. These laws were very unpopular as well. Fascism has many faces. The US supported various fascist regimes in central and south America during the 70s-80s, none of which were like the Nazis or imperial Japanese.

The real danger is that people choose to look at history only through their own perspective.

"yamahog" (yamahog)
02/03/2017 at 09:40, STARS: 14

How do people completely forget that there were not only protests when Obama took office, but a fucking church was burned down?

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/46052395/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/arsonists-jailed-torching-black-church-only-hours-after-obamas-election-victory/

"crowmolly" (crowmolly)
02/03/2017 at 09:41, STARS: 1

By comparing the current administration to literal Nazis, you are making incredible light of the people who suffered and died in concentration camps at the hands of a real fascist dictator.

Thank you for posting this. I know it’s cathartic to some people to draw the parallel but it is insulting to those who suffered under the Third Reich.

"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
02/03/2017 at 09:41, STARS: 10

Hillary was a bad candidate and the Democratic Party fucked up.

That being said, we didn’t see protests because Obama wasn’t as overwhelmingly unpopular as Trump. I really don’t get the attitude that people are ‘whining’. Trump has by far the lowest approval rating of an incoming president since that data was tracked and lost the popular vote by a larger margin than any other president in history. What is so hard to understand about that? Of course people are protesting, they got fucked by a bullshit system and ended up with a highly undesirable president.

Also don’t act like people didn’t whine about Obama’s presidency. For the last 8 years the right has acted childish, blocking as much of his actions as they could, conservative media spent a lot of effort labeling him as a dictator because of his use of executive orders, and people like Donald J Trump going so far as to claim he wasn’t a naturally born US Citizen. Just because the left is apparently louder and more ready to take action doesn’t mean the right was well behaved under an Obama presidency

"Jcarr" (jcarr)
02/03/2017 at 09:42, STARS: 1

“No”

- God

"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
02/03/2017 at 09:43, STARS: 5

Hey now, keep your alternate facts out of this

"yamahog" (yamahog)
02/03/2017 at 09:44, STARS: 6

#neverforgetbowlinggreen

"OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
02/03/2017 at 09:44, STARS: 0

Not political but before you post quotes, look who they’ve come from. Google “Laurence W. Britt”

"RutRut" (RDR)
02/03/2017 at 09:46, STARS: 0

1.776

"fintail" (fintail)
02/03/2017 at 09:48, STARS: 0

I just posted it as a list. I don’t know/care who the author is, I didn’t find an image without the name. It doesn’t discount the idea, and the slippery slope Murka has embarked upon.

"Santiago of Escuderia Boricua" (sdiglesias)
02/03/2017 at 09:50, STARS: 7

This is how fascism starts. Look at everything that’s happening with Bannon

"OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
02/03/2017 at 09:51, STARS: 1

"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
02/03/2017 at 09:53, STARS: 16

“Thirdly, why do we care about the Middle East/Islamic immigration ban so much? These are countries run by theocratic dictatorships, with legally-enforced discrimination - a straight up human rights violation. These are countries where my girlfriend and I cannot even visit, because we will almost certainly be imprisoned, and quite possibly killed due to active persecution of LGBTQ individuals.”

Isn’t that all the more reason to want to welcome people trying to escape such conditions?

"BorkBorkBjork" (tbirdlemons)
02/03/2017 at 09:55, STARS: 1

Purple really is the most underrated color for cars.

"fintail" (fintail)
02/03/2017 at 09:56, STARS: 0

There’s nothing really to believe. It’s a list that sadly describes a road being taken by the US. Let me guess, you got set off by the whine on the “therightstuff” blog.

It’s not like the alternative facts trotted out by the Cryptkeeper and Trumputinbannon.

"Sam" (samwellington)
02/03/2017 at 10:06, STARS: 3

Basically everyone hates everyone, and nobody can agree what we should do to fix it, because they hate each other.

"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
02/03/2017 at 10:10, STARS: 0

I’m not sure I follow your point about Jews in Italy. Are you trying to caution that discrimination can take time to come to light, and can exist regardless of popular opinion?

"Sam" (samwellington)
02/03/2017 at 10:11, STARS: 0

They’re mostly escaping the “being shot by ISIS and being bombed by Russians” parts. There are strong sentiments among many of these people that Sharia law is the only way, then they enforce it within their own community (see London). So really, damned if you do, damned if you don’t. But right now, I believe damned if you don’t is probably the better choice.

"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
02/03/2017 at 10:11, STARS: 2

Simply that fascism doesn’t always look like Nazi Germany. Fascism in both Italy and Germany existed because of popular opinion.

"Azrek" (azrek)
02/03/2017 at 10:13, STARS: 1

My favorite is still this friend...who is mad at me for not being mad about her issues which may or may not be happening. I went back to drinking my very tasty Maple Bacon stout beer. It tastes like drinking breakfast....I should totally get one for a big breakfast one day. Mmm....

"fintail" (fintail)
02/03/2017 at 10:14, STARS: 0

Version without a name, for your pleasure (I think this is also the version seen at the holocaust museum)

"OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
02/03/2017 at 10:19, STARS: 0

I’m actually an independent and a senior in college and I have actually never even heard of those websites. I just know that sourcing quotes with in-credible authors defeats what you are saying. Should you believe everything you see on the internet? No. But having Abraham Lincoln as the person who “said it” defeats the purpose.

"Sam" (samwellington)
02/03/2017 at 10:20, STARS: 2

Oh, everything isn’t fine. Not by a long shot. The country is pretty much ripping itself apart.

"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
02/03/2017 at 10:21, STARS: 1

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

"That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms" (thatbastardkurtis5)
02/03/2017 at 10:22, STARS: 2

This is the best take. I give it my highest score: 1/1 Chewie Dog:

"Rust and Dust - Oppositelock Forever" (rustanddust)
02/03/2017 at 10:28, STARS: 7

I don’t think Trump is consciously being a fascist, it’s just his nature to act like one (not trying to fire off an insult or a quip, that’s my personal honest assessment of his words/actions over the course of the past two years).

A family I’m close to is Polish. I’ve been there numerous times. I’ve driven on cobble roads built by slave labor, and wondered how many died in order to pave that road for Hitler. I’ve walked past concrete pillboxes in the woods, and wondered how many innocents were gunned down where I stood by the Soviets, their sole flaw being a desire for the freedom that was stolen from them. I’ve met a woman who lived through Nazi and Soviet rule, and I’ve met the daughter of a woman who didn’t survive. I’ve heard the stories of teachers, lawyers, doctors, and politicians all being rounded up, sent off to prison camps in the woods for a year, then given a Makarov round to the back of the skull and a mass grave as a final resting place. I’ve prayed at a memorial for them (and I’m agnostic, I just like to hedge my bets).

Fascism/totalitarianism isn’t a light switch. Hitler didn’t start pogroms and building concentration camps the day after he was elected. He endeared himself to his population base before starting his genocide. That’s the thing. Everyone now wonders how it was that (essentially) an entire nation was able to launch itself into a continent-wide genocide, with global ambitions. It happened slowly, and gradually, so that it wasn’t as much of a shock to the system of the rational people who may otherwise object. This is what terrifies me.

Both of my grandfathers fought fascism in the second world war. One of them is still here today, and imparted in me a sense of right and wrong, justice, equality, empathy and respect for humanity. I would rather run the risk of being overly diligent now, than to realize in ten years that my complacency allowed tyranny to replace liberty and freedom.

"haveacarortwoorthree2" (haveacarortwoorthree2)
02/03/2017 at 10:31, STARS: 1

Will only address one point — “The popular vote argument is pretty valid seeing as he lost by a larger margin than any other electoral college victor in history. There isn’t precedent as you insist, this is a new situation.” So you’re saying that this is a new situation simply because the popular vote margin is larger than in prior occasions? That doesn’t make sense to me. An example: SB XXVI: It’s unprecedented that the Bills lost another SB. I mean, last year’s loss was only by 1 point and this year’s loss was by 13. SB XXVII: It’s unprecedented that the Bills lost another SB. This year’s loss was by 35 points. SB XXVIII: It’s unprecedented that the Bills have lost 4 super bowls in a row. Well, actually that one is unprecedented!

"Sam" (samwellington)
02/03/2017 at 10:31, STARS: 2

This is a doggos thread now.

"nermal" (nermal)
02/03/2017 at 10:34, STARS: 3

The popular vote delta was entirely in CA and NY.

The reason the Electoral College exists is to make sure smaller states still have a relevant voice in voting for the president.

"nermal" (nermal)
02/03/2017 at 10:38, STARS: 1

What year is it again? With a 2 party system and a close election, half of the voters (and people who couldn’t / couldn’t be botherd to vote) will complain about the winner being wrong, and probably a Nazi.

"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
02/03/2017 at 10:42, STARS: 1

Seriously. I was in middle school in 2008 and even I remember the mass protests.

"fhrblig" (fhrblig)
02/03/2017 at 10:45, STARS: 8

I don’t (and won’t) ever believe damned if you don’t is the right choice in that scenario. I will always err on the side of helping the less fortunate, even if there’s a chance it would result in my death. I can’t control what other people do, I can only control my own actions.

It’s fine if you believe their beliefs will never change, but if that were true about all people we’d still be burning witches at the stake. The more people interact with others with different beliefs, the more likely their beliefs about those people can change.

Also, hard right Christians (please note who I’m specifically talking about) in this country have always wanted to install the Christian version of Sharia law in this country and I’m terrified that this administration will help them achieve it.

"Dusty Ventures" (dustyventures)
02/03/2017 at 10:53, STARS: 9

1. I don’t think you know what Sharia is

2. Of the countries in Trump’s travel ban only four (Sudan, Iran, Iraq, and Yemen) have legal systems that rely on a large influence from Sharia. The other three (Libya, Somalia, and Syria) only use Sharia for family law and secular courts for everything else.

3. The harsh punishments that Shariah law is known for often require a near-impossible level of evidence to be enacted, and in many cases the law says the punishment can be avoided simply by repenting. Also, many Sharia scholars (including in the countries that put faith in Sharia) say such a punishment system can only be instituted in a society of high moral standards and where everyone’s needs are met (thereby negating the urge to steal or commit other crimes).

"JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!" (jqj213)
02/03/2017 at 10:54, STARS: 2

This has been up in the Holocaust museum for years. If you don’t see ANY similarities, well I don’t know what to tell you.

"fintail" (fintail)
02/03/2017 at 11:03, STARS: 0

Why is the author “incredible”? Sounds subjective. The Lincoln comparison is not apt - as the author indeed made the list. If you don’t like the points, that’s cool, but it does not negate their worth. If one doesn’t embrace the author, that’s fine, but to paraphrase someone: don’t obsess about the pointing finger while ignoring the moon.

"OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars" (jakeauern)
02/03/2017 at 11:13, STARS: 0

First of it was supposed to be un-credible but autocorrect decided otherwise. Second It’s not that I don’t like the points. I have said nothing about not liking the points. Saying that I don’t like the points is irresponsible. I just know that the man who said them is not a doctor, his only past is as an executive, and this is the only thing he’s ever written. I started this off as non- political and I have said nothing political this entire post. I just know that sources are important because no matter how true or false something is, if you’re author is not credible, your point is defeated.

"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
02/03/2017 at 11:15, STARS: 0

Bigly liters

"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
02/03/2017 at 11:16, STARS: 1

No pork no peace!

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
02/03/2017 at 11:17, STARS: 0

I definitely agree that we, as individuals, should err on the side of helping others. However, the president’s highest responsibility is protecting the people of this country and their freedoms. But the way he’s done this - keeping out green card holders, people who have assisted our military and have already been through years of vetting - has been pretty unconscionable. I don’t think there’s any doubt that he’s well on his way to becoming our worst president ever.

And fwiw, whatever the hard-right Christian version of Sharia law is, I’m pretty confident that it doesn’t involve honor killings... Honestly, one of the saddest things for me to see is an espoused Christian whose real religion has become the Republican Party. The rationalizing of decidedly un-Christian policies because that’s what the GOP’s stance is at the time is grotesque.

love your neighbor as yourself =/= waterboarding

"DipodomysDeserti" (dipodomysdeserti)
02/03/2017 at 11:18, STARS: 0

I think pre 1938 fascist Italy is a much more apt example.

"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein)
02/03/2017 at 11:22, STARS: 1

I started typing up responses to your assorted points, and it started to get kinda long, and I didn’t feel like finishing them. So...

"PS9" (PS9)
02/03/2017 at 11:23, STARS: 3

First off, people are certifiably insane if they think we’ve elected a fascist dictator.

Because of the way power is organized in United States, the president - barring some extreme and unfortunate turn of events - cannot be a dictator. But the president certainly can be a fascist and organize his branch of government accordingly. What follows is the definition of fascism lifted from Dictionary.com. You will find it to be similarly defined googling other sources of information.

A governmental system led by a dictator having complete power; As stated before, a US president barring a very unfortunate turn of events cannot have complete power over the United States. The president cannot be a dictator. But where there is power to seize, Trump has unabashedly grabbed it.

Forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism; Trump does not tolerate even the slightest bit of criticism, and has used the powers of government to silence opposition wherever possible. During his first press conference, he refused to give CNN a question and kicked them out of the white house. He has repeatedly suggested that media entities willing to run stories that don’t fit his agenda should be ‘brought out’, presumably by someone more friendly to Trump and will kill stories about him he doesn’t like. He has ordered all federal agencies under his control to be silent (which only resulted in a smattering of rogue twitter accounts that now post insider info). Criticism of Trump is likely a no-no in this environment which is why federal employees have turned to encrypted messaging to safely express their descent.

Even reality itself has proven to be no barrier to the Trump administration’s desire to suppress information it views to be negative; Agents of the administration have, and continue to, repeatedly lie about easily verifiable things (The inauguration turnout, the 2016 election turnout, the ‘bowling green massacre’) and I’m sure the list of ‘alternative facts’ will continue to grow as time goes on.

Regimenting all industry, commerce, etc.,; Trump has publicly threatened manufacturing firms with a ‘big border tax’ if they don’t do what he says, and still plans to levy a 45% tariff against goods made in China. Trump clearly views himself as someone who if not leads, then at least exerts a high degree of control over the US economy.

Emphasizing an aggressive nationalism, and often racism; I submit this text lifted directly from his inaugural address.

At the bedrock of our politics will be a total allegiance to the United States of America and through our loyalty to our country, we will rediscover our loyalty to each other. When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.

You are loyal first not to yourself, not to you friends, family and neighbors, but to your country. Country first, everything else second. What’s wrong with being loyal to your country exactly? A degree of loyalty to a nation is normal. But total loyalty is what is being asked for here, and complete national loyalty is the mechanism through which fascist regimes can justify all of the actions carried out by the state. If the facist leader of a nation, for example, decides that the judicial branch no longer has any power , ‘loyalty’ means support for unconstitutional power grabs. Betraying that loyalty is treason, which means you don’t get to have power in the government any longer. (It’s actually supposed to mean death, but we are not there yet ) If you are a fascist leader, there is no difference between you and the country you govern; you are the state. So an ask for loyalty to the state is really an ask for loyalty to you.

Is Trump a dictator? Well, you can’t be if you are president, barring an unfortunate turn of events. Is Trump a fascist? If he is not, what would be different between him and a fascist president? He is doing the things a fascist president would do.

Secondly, 49% of people voted for Trump

I think you meant to say ‘45.9%’

(don’t bother talking about him not winning the popular vote, that isn’t how our government has ever worked so it’s irrelevant)

What? Out of the 45 presidential administrations, only 5 of them in all of american history have been awarded to candidates who failed to achieve the popular vote , and Donald Trump’s deficit here is the largest in history. All the other presidents got there because they were chosen by the majority of voters. Winning the white house but not the will of the people isn’t how things always were, but an aberration of how they are supposed to be.

Another thing; you refer to him as the ‘democratically elected leader’ but ‘democracy’ is a word that has a meaning . If it doesn’t matter that Trump failed to achieve the popular vote win, then democracy doesn’t either, because ‘rule of the majority’ is what a democracy is supposed to be. It’s inarguable that Trump won the presidency. But electing the person who lost the election anyway is hardly democratic. An argument for a ‘democracy’ that can invalidate the will of the people is also an argument against your right to choose your leaders.

Thirdly, why do we care about the Middle East/Islamic immigration ban so much?

Because banning people from entry to the United States on the basis of their religion and country of origin and nothing else is at least bigoted, at most racist, and exactly the shot in the arm terrorist organizations like ISIS needed for their recruitment drives, because when they tell potential agents looking to join, ‘america the great satan hates arabs and muslims’, they will be right. Our foreign policy validates them now.

Because upending the lives of people who already went through the extensive vetting process and were promised entry only to be denied protects no one and destroys lives for nothing.

Because terrorists today don’t send agents into the hostile nation with strike plans anymore. That thinking is decades old. What they do now is ‘franchise terrorism’; pick someone already inside the nation susceptible to radicalization, send them the appropriate information, and they do the rest. Trying to catch terrorists at the border is being unable to see the forest for the trees.

Because bigotry and racism as domestic policy emboldens bigots and racists across the nation and elsewhere who will see that as validation and even protection from prosecution, and will accordingly take actions that endanger all of us.

Because a Syrian refugee escaping the cancerous boil on the ass of humanity that is Aleppo poses no danger to citizens of the united states.

But I’m already a citizen of this country. I got mine so fuck them, right?

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
02/03/2017 at 11:23, STARS: 0

https://lobelog.com/no-hitler-did-not-come-to-power-democratically/

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
02/03/2017 at 11:25, STARS: 0

An honest question: at what point would you care?

"That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms" (thatbastardkurtis5)
02/03/2017 at 11:26, STARS: 0

Doggo thread is best thread. Two of yours look like they’re related to my dude Mookie, the one on the right.

"functionoverfashion" (functionoverfashion)
02/03/2017 at 11:27, STARS: 2

Perhaps what bothers me more than anything is this administration’s labeling of “the media” as “the opposition party.” That’s really scary to me. While all reporting carries with it some degree of opinion - just try writing a headline without any bias at all - there has to be a basis of fact on which we can have civilized discussion, and an informed public. And anyone reporting on a discrepancy of statements to actual, verifiable facts, ought to be able to do so without being personally attacked. I can’t believe I even have to say that.

This is a fundamental problem with the Trump administration and to me, it is the single most worrisome. Because if we can’t rely on a variety of media outlets to provide roughly similar versions of the same story, we aren’t given the choice to decide for ourselves what really happened. We won’t know because both sides say the other is lying. It’s like a childhood riddle where you encounter two liars in the woods or some such fictional conundrum.

Second to that is how I do not feel that I can point to our President and say to my son, “that is a role model.”

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
02/03/2017 at 11:28, STARS: 1

I’d encourage you to listen to this: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/03/how-to-build-an-autocracy/513872/

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
02/03/2017 at 11:30, STARS: 0

“crying wolf”

When the real wolf shows up, no one’s paying attention anymore.

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
02/03/2017 at 11:30, STARS: 1

This is worth a listen: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/03/how-to-build-an-autocracy/513872/

"Azrek" (azrek)
02/03/2017 at 11:33, STARS: 0

When it directly affects my sphere of influence. And my sphere isn’t that big.

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
02/03/2017 at 11:43, STARS: 0

I mean, there’s a lot of bad shit going on in the world, and you can only care so much before it just devastates you, so I understand wanting to just put all of that out of your head and focus on your “sphere”. That’s not an unhealthy way of going about life. But that mentality would mean that, for example, if slavery was still going on in the South and we lived in Montana where everything was hunky-dory, we’d “not care” and do nothing to try to change it. I know that most of us don’t have much power to cure injustice (or poverty or hunger or genocide) in the world, but at least being aware and speaking up when things are happening (especially in our country) that are clearly wrong at least adds another voice in the chorus of speakers and actors that actually do make change happen.

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
02/03/2017 at 11:45, STARS: 1

And this is worth reading: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/a-clarifying-moment-in-american-history/514868/?mc_cid=b04b44bd2f&mc_eid=211848afd8

"Stapleface" (patrickgruden)
02/03/2017 at 11:45, STARS: 1

Starred for Cheetolini.

"Azrek" (azrek)
02/03/2017 at 11:48, STARS: 0

Apathy is the new political party.

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
02/03/2017 at 11:52, STARS: 0

Apathy got us Donald Trump as a president.

Hope that works out for y’all okay!

Full disclosure: I voted in the primary, but not for either of the two terrible choices we had in November...

"Rust and Dust - Oppositelock Forever" (rustanddust)
02/03/2017 at 12:04, STARS: 1

Thank you for sharing that article.

Ironically, I picked up a copy of Sinclair Lewis’ “It Can’t Happen Here” for my 18 year old son this Christmas. The fact that it was written in ‘35, well before the full scope of Hitler’s ambitions were realized wasn’t lost upon him.

"PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power" (petarvn)
02/03/2017 at 12:06, STARS: 1

Bravo. I cannot star this enough. Thank you. This is good political posting.

"Milky" (jordanmielke)
02/03/2017 at 12:15, STARS: 8

Why do people in smaller states need a bigger voice?

I genuinely don’t believe someone in Wyoming deserves 3.6 X the voting power than someone in California.

"Rico" (ricorich)
02/03/2017 at 12:19, STARS: 1

You’ve must have stumped him. Short term memory is a helluva thing.

"fintail" (fintail)
02/03/2017 at 12:21, STARS: 0

What’s un-credible about him? He’s not a career academic? Who cares if he’s not a doctor? I never claimed he was, neither does the image. Where do you see “doctor”? IMO not being a doctor doesn’t invalidate points. The statements stand on their own. It’s not like Conway or DeVos made them.

Nothing has been defeated or shown to not be credible.

"IanZ - limited-slip indifferential" (ianz-limited)
02/03/2017 at 12:21, STARS: 1

Like Sam Bee said “How do you fact-check bluster ?”

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
02/03/2017 at 12:33, STARS: 1

My heritage is completely German. My ancestors were all here well before the rise of the Nazis, but it’s horrifying to think that my grandparents might have been taken in by the rise of nationalism like so many Germans were, and like so many have been taken up by our current con-man in chief. It’s terribly sad to me as an American that his current approval rating is at 45%. That may be low for a new president, but it’s way too high, considering the way he’s acting and the things he’s doing.

"fhrblig" (fhrblig)
02/03/2017 at 13:17, STARS: 1

Yeah, but just because they wouldn’t necessarily be murdering people doesn’t make the prospect any less scary.

"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
02/03/2017 at 13:22, STARS: 0

The combination of the size of the margin and the way the President has polled in regards to popularity is unprecedented.

I don’t think your example of a sports score is similar in anyway. There’s a HUGE difference in how a game is scored versus how people are elected. Besides, most people would argue that winning a football game by a wider margin is more of a statement than winning it by a small margin. If a team wins a game by 1 point it was a well fought game and evenly matched, whereas if they win by 13 points it was likely a lopsided victory in which they dominated where it mattered for the right portion of the game.

A team winning a super bowl by the biggest margin in Super Bowl history would be the definition of unprecedented.

"Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever" (superchan7)
02/03/2017 at 13:23, STARS: 2

She lost because she is not a populist and could not manage to make herself look like one.

Trump campaigned as a populist. Oddly, I think he actually believes he is one, but he has no clue how to act like one. Everything he has implemented or “ordered” so far has been a flustercuck of incompetence and embarrassed ass-covering (looking at you, Mr Spicer).

"Jayhawk Jake" (jayhawkjake)
02/03/2017 at 13:25, STARS: 0

What? No it wasn’t. Trump didn’t win the popular vote in every state other than CA and NY.

I’m not saying he didn’t play the game correctly, but that doesn’t mean I support the game.

"Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever" (superchan7)
02/03/2017 at 13:26, STARS: 3

Trump voters love to forget about this. Death threats, arson, so peaceful!

"Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever" (superchan7)
02/03/2017 at 13:28, STARS: 0

Hillary was not a populist. She tried to add populist messages to her campaign, but nobody can ever pretend she came close to Bernie’s appeal (or Trump’s, for that matter).

All Hillary brought was competence and experience, and that wasn’t what the voters were looking for.

"Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever" (superchan7)
02/03/2017 at 13:42, STARS: 3

Agreed, what worries me is the facist swamp around him, not Trump himself. He has no experience, which means he is highly susceptible to being manipulated by hidden agendas.