by "Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
Published 02/02/2017 at 17:59
by "Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
Published 02/02/2017 at 17:59
Tags: Texas
STARS: 12
Earlier today I posted a call to action urging TexOppos to call their senators in regards to the DeVos education secretary nomination that generated a lot of really great discussion (I <3 Oppo). Someone asked why it was important. And so I answered. Below is a link to the comment, as well as the comment itself.
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"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
02/02/2017 at 18:05, STARS: 13
Poor education standards leads to uneducated voters.
And I don’t need to tell you who uneducated voters tend to vote for...
*cough*
"EL_ULY" (uly)
02/02/2017 at 18:15, STARS: 9
How to build the best society 101:
Work on making the population educated and healthy.
As long as the nation is headed towards those 2 goals, the future is is safe :]
....ahhh FAAACK!
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
02/02/2017 at 18:16, STARS: 1
It feels like K-12 won’t be guaranteed anymore. Even some Dems are promoting charter programs. As if putting more hands in the education budget will stretch it further.
"bob and john" (bobandjohn)
02/02/2017 at 18:17, STARS: 0
who needs edumacation, I have motorcycles
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
02/02/2017 at 18:21, STARS: 3
Friend, I agree with the first statement wholeheartedly, but the second statement is an oversimplification and not helpful to the discussion. It’s also false. I know many well-educated, thoughtful people who voted for Trump. In many cases they did so knowing he was, in their minds, the least bad among the bad choices. It does no good to insult them or the essentially half the country with them who voted as they did.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
02/02/2017 at 18:22, STARS: 6
Uneducated voters also tend not to vote at all.
"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
02/02/2017 at 18:27, STARS: 8
I get that there are a few good people who thought Fuckass was a good idea, much in the same way that there are a few good people who think jean shorts are better than cargo shorts, but I will not take back my statement. Fuckass is a xenophobic, hot-headed billionaire who appointed a white supremacist as his top adviser, who spoke vitriol about women, about Mexicans, about Muslims, and failed to unite his constituents even AFTER he won the election.
We could have had an experienced, level-headed politician as Commander-in-Chief, but emails.
(Yes I’m a little rattled about his administration. After all, I’m one wrong step away from being declared an enemy of the nation)
"Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle" (1500sand535)
02/02/2017 at 18:37, STARS: 3
I wish we talked more about the importance of health. We talk a lot about health costs lately but not much about just encouraging our whole goddamn country to be healthier, which you know, helps the whole cost thing.
"Berang" (berang)
02/02/2017 at 18:51, STARS: 2
Smart people make mistakes too.
"wiffleballtony" (wiffleballtony)
02/02/2017 at 18:53, STARS: 1
*ahem
ALLEGED billionaire
Also. Emails is a gross oversimplification of the scope the problem.
"deekster_caddy" (deekster_caddy)
02/02/2017 at 18:58, STARS: 2
In many cases they did so knowing he was, in their minds, the least bad among the bad choices.
This is the horrible result of the two party rule. Third parties never get fair representation, and the last few elections have been “please not him” votes. Ugh.
"TheHondaBro" (wwaveform)
02/02/2017 at 19:01, STARS: 4
I don’t like Clinton either, but saying she, a former senator and secretary of state, is worse than Dilbert Fuckass is... Just wrong. The 2016 election was between a politician and a child.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
02/02/2017 at 19:01, STARS: 3
Thank you so very much for the thoughtful and thorough response. I grew up going to public schools and never understood as a young student the desire of some people to send their kids to swanky private schools. I thought it was just for status.
Then I met my wife. She grew up in an area where you went to the Catholic schools if you wanted any kind of an actual education. She was poor, but her family found the money to do it with the generous assistance of the diocese. I still argued with her that public schools were the best way to go if they were decent. I didn’t really understand the desire of some for waivers to bring money with you to private schools.
Then I moved to Dallas 16 years ago. We love our house, its proximity to everything that matters. We love our neighborhood and the people in it. We have often stated that we will never move as long as we live in Dallas.
But our schools are shit. As are most of the schools in the DISD. So we send our child to our parish Catholic school. And, here is where I am going to challenge your assertion that the people who send their kids to private schools are wealthy. Our school is solidly middle to working class and chock-a-block full of latino and black students learning right alongside the white kids (BTW, we prefer it that way because we believe diversity is a good thing for a child to experience). In fact, one of my child’s classmates is illegal. Now I understand why people believe so much in school choice and waivers. When your home is in a district with poor public schools, and money is tight, you do what you can to get your kid the best education you can. You suck it up and find the money. But, boy oh boy would it be nice if you didn’t have to pay for that education twice.
The thing is, my wife and I still believe in supporting the public school system because without it, our society is doomed. So we don’t really begrudge the DISD our tax money. I just wish they would make better use of it. What I have learned over time is that, while you do need money to educate kids properly, throwing more money at the system doesn’t always make the education better. I have watched us go through several high-profile, well-paid superintendents with reform plans intended to rescue our schools, and still they are shit. The thing is, it doesn’t take that much money to give a kid an decent elementary education (here is where I’ll mention that Catholic schools across the country uniformly offer a great education even though many of them have shoe string budgets, like ours). What it takes is commitment. From teachers, yes, but most especially from the parents. Kids who have stable, safe homes with loving parents that value education do well in school. Too many kids come to school without a good breakfast or proper sleep, or haven’t done their homework because their parents don’t really value education. I was grocery shopping and met a DISD teacher in the cereal aisle who was stocking up on cereal bars for her classroom for the kids who come to school hungry. That’s tragic.
What’s all this got to do with Betsy DeVos? I don’t know, but what I do know is that I’m finding myself less concerned with her advocacy of waivers and school choice because I don’t really think that’s the main problem, in and of itself. I’m more concerned with how she plans to address these other issues inasmuch as someone in D.C. can. From what I read so far, I’m not impressed.
"EL_ULY" (uly)
02/02/2017 at 19:02, STARS: 5
Muslim terror attacks this, Mexican immigrant rape/killers that, Chicago inner city blah blah blahh......
610,000 die in the US of heart disease every year aka 1 in 4 deaths
Oh, and cars...
35,000+deaths in 2015
"wiffleballtony" (wiffleballtony)
02/02/2017 at 19:08, STARS: 0
That’s entirely your right to feel that way. I didn’t vote for either of them. However, in Clinton’s case her miss handling of classified documents would have landed an ordinary government official in jail.
"TheRealBicycleBuck" (therealbicyclebuck)
02/02/2017 at 19:08, STARS: 1
What, in your opinion is the solution?
Louisiana is currently ranked 47th in education, but our per-student spending is above the national average, $2,000 higher than in Texas. Knowing that my taxes will be going to students for as long as I own property, it sure would be nice to use my share to support the education of my kids while they are in school. Right now, all of my taxes are going to support other people’s kids and I have to bust my ass to pay for a decent education for my own. In effect, I’m paying twice.
How’s that fair?
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
02/02/2017 at 19:09, STARS: 1
What I don’t get is how we ended up with the two choices we did. There must be a legion of better-qualified people for the job than the two we chose through the primary/caucus system. I think celebrity and name recognition count for way too much in our society.
"Berang" (berang)
02/02/2017 at 19:15, STARS: 0
The voucher system is sort of just a band-aid for a broken system, but it does allow disadvantaged students an opportunity to get better education. Which is good. And on the other hand, what’s the alternative really? Having all the kids sit tight while the adults try to make their schools perform better?
Sure, I wouldn’t want people to think that the band-aid that is a voucher system is the end-all, be-all solution to these problems, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s completely bad either. Just so long as people keep in mind that it is only a band-aid (which admittedly they probably won’t) and there are still underlying problems which need resolution.
"nermal" (nermal)
02/02/2017 at 19:34, STARS: 0
Thanks for the thoughtful, detailed response. Sounds like a lot of NIMBY attitudes going on - Parents don’t care about kids in the “bad” schools, as long as their kids are in a good one.
The DeVos idea basically says that a child’s $5k or so education funding follow the child, to either a public or a private school. The downside of incentivizing schools based on test scores is two-fold. First, the schools teach to the test, not to a proper, well rounded education. Second, it creates a “rich get richer / poor get poorer” scenario.
What do you think about getting rid of the test score incentives AND assigning each child a dollar amount that follows them to wherever they are enrolled, public or private school?
"Kat Callahan" (kyosuke)
02/02/2017 at 19:43, STARS: 1
Hi. I’m a teacher. I went to public school in Texas for HS. I have worked in private and public schools as a teacher. I am a fierce proponent of public education.
DeVos wants to gut public education.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/02/2017 at 19:50, STARS: 0
I... know? That’s exactly what I was saying in my extremely brief comment up there?
"Tazio, Count Fouroff" (tazio0625)
02/02/2017 at 20:01, STARS: 0
DeVos wants to improve education, including public education. Why enable a system that gives consistently mediocre at best, arguably poor results even with the highest per student spending in the industrialized world, increasing steadily as student performance declines?
Brothers and sisters, as pointed out low-income children suffer most under the present system. We are neglecting them. Arguing to defend or perpetuate the status quo is unconscionable.
"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
02/02/2017 at 20:07, STARS: 2
1. Did you/your parents pay for the full costs your own education, pre-college, or was it (partially) funded by tax payers back then as well?
2. Imagine no tax payers money goes to schools. The result will be that the new generations will be far poorer educated than previous generations. What kind of effect will this have on the economy once those poorly educated kids grow up and replace the older generations in the work force?
Education is an investment. Not just in the individual, in the country as a whole. It will improve society. The ‘greater good’ if you will. Gut education and society, and as a result your average Joe,
will
suffer.
My 91 year old grandfather never had fire and has never had an issue with police or crime and given his age probably never will. Is it fair that his tax money over that many decades of paying tax has been spent on fire departments and police?
"Kat Callahan" (kyosuke)
02/02/2017 at 20:09, STARS: 1
I know you know! I was just adding my voice for readers. I already know you and I agree.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/02/2017 at 20:16, STARS: 3
Actually, the latter half of HondaBro’s statement is based on fact. Uneducated and undereducated people voted for Trump compared to educated voters by the largest margins since 1980.
From the Pew Research Center:
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On average, less educated voters are more likely to vote Republican in general.
And judging by the MASSIVE increase in racially fueled crimes against Muslims and Latinos ever since Nov. 9, 2016 — a lot of which involve racist epithets such as depictions of swastikas, taunts about this being Trump’s America now, threats to deport brown skinned people back to Mexico, the defacing and burning of mosques, and more — it’s also fairly accurate to say that a percentage of Trump voters are white supremacists.
Furthermore, with the signing of 20 executive orders just within the first TEN days of his administration that have, among other things: banned legal immigrants, refugees and visitors to this country based on their country of origin and their religion, ordered the construction of a $25 BILLION border wall (cost based on conservative estimates) that numerous immigration and environmental experts have already gone on record as saying won’t keep out people but will harm sensitive wildlife populations, ordered the weakening/dismantling of the Affordable Care Act which could leave some 20 million people without insurance and will affect millions more on fixed incomes who depend on Medicaid, ordered a government hiring freeze, and more... makes it incredibly difficult (impossible, really) to say that Trump was “the least bad among bad choices.”
And let’s not forget that Trump muzzled several federal agencies, ordering them not only to stop speaking to the media, but to stop speaking, period (he later softened, but nmdidnt entirely pivot from that stance). He’s frozen funding from environmental agencies, has plans to dismantle the EPA, has given the go-ahead for two major oil pipelines, OK’ed coal plant runoff into rivers, and is expected to order the legalization of LGBTQ discrimination in the guise of “religious” freedom.
Then, without even consulting military intelligence officials, he ordered Navy SEAL Team 6 to engage in a poorly planned, poorly resourced covert operation into a heavily fortified and heavily defended al Qaeda outpost which led to the deaths of several civilians, including an 8-year-old American citizen, and oh yeah... a Navy SEAL. But it’s ok, because he met the man’s casket as it arrived back in the States yesterday. How classy of Trump!
And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. It hasn’t even been two full weeks. And I left out a whole bunch more stuff.
"Breakfast Burrito: The True Resident Burrito" (breakfast-burrito)
02/02/2017 at 20:20, STARS: 0
Ah this again... They’re “uneducated voters” if they vote red and “poor, disenfranchised voters” if they vote blue. In reality, those “uneducated voters” voted for Barry in
2012
, and [
oh would you look at that
] I can’t find a single mention of “uneducated voters” for the 2008 election.
Now, if you look at the La Times Daybreak polls (one of the only polls to correctly predict the election), you’ll find that Clinton won with bachelors degrees or higher, but anyone making more than $35k leaned Trump. Does this mean that successful Americans with real careers and real degrees voted for Trump, while those “educated” Clinton voters were baristas with worthless degrees? Idk maybe, but HAVING A COLLEGE DEGREE DOES NOT MAKE YOU A SMARTER VOTER.
In reality, I’d wager the “uneducated” voters are America’s blue collar workers, and they’ll vote for whoever they think will protect their jobs.
Finally, I think it’s funny that you mock the “uneducated” and then continue with“muh white supremacists.” Also “my president is a child, so I’m gonna call him Fuckface” is deliciously ironic.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/02/2017 at 20:20, STARS: 1
Part of the equation of getting people to build and maintain healthy lifestyle and eating habits goes right back to...
Yup, you guess it: Education.
The more affluent you are, the more likely you are to take more care of your health and diet (and the more resources and time you’ll have to devote to it, too).
But if you’re working a minimum wage job because you only have a high school diploma, you’ve gotta work longer hours just to pay rent. By the end of the day you’re too tired to cook a healthy meal OR go for a jog, so you sit down with your Big Mac and prop up your aching feet.
It always, ALWAYS comes back to education.
"Rico" (ricorich)
02/02/2017 at 20:36, STARS: 1
Her comments about parents of disabled children should move to States that have better education for their children was horrible. Yeah like the parents of disabled children can just upend their lives just like that.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/02/2017 at 20:48, STARS: 2
It doesn’t seem to be landing Bannon and Kushner, or Trump in jail, who are still using unsecured personal email accounts and an unsecured smartphone, respectively.
What’s good for the (Clinton) goose is good for the (Trump and Trump administration) gander.
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
02/02/2017 at 20:52, STARS: 2
The third parties were somehow even worse. “What’s Aleppo?” And vaccines might not be a great idea.
I’m thinking about running for senate because why-the-hell-not. If this is what the country consistently puts up there... who knows.
“I’m an idiot, but at least I know it.” Longbow2022
"wiffleballtony" (wiffleballtony)
02/02/2017 at 20:56, STARS: 0
The distinction is what is being carried on those servers. Are they storing classified data on those servers? Are those servers not accredited by DSS? If so then yes they should also be under investigation. If their accounts do not contain such information then there really isn’t any issue. You can read up on it in DoD manual 5200 or the NISPOM for private companies. If you’re really interested go to www.cdse.edu. there are plenty of introductory courses that don’t require a clearance.
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
02/02/2017 at 20:59, STARS: 1
DeVos wants to profit off schools. Not improve them.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/02/2017 at 20:59, STARS: 1
Whether or not you liked her as a politician you absolutely CANNOT argue that Clinton was an unqualified candidate. She had the most robust CV of any other presidential candidate before her: Yale law grad, strong advocate for education ever since Bill’s Arkansas governor says (she got the state to start a preschool program, among other things), U.S. Senator, Secretary of State. The ONLY thing she could have done that she didn’t was serve in the military. But, had she won, she wouldn’t have been the only president who hasn’t served. There have been 13 out of our 45 presidents: her husband, Obama and Trump are the recent ones, along with older ones including two founding fathers (Jefferson and Adams), and FDR.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/02/2017 at 21:02, STARS: 1
Well, considering the Trump administration has been hellbent on flouting the Constitution in several different ways just two weeks into their regime, I’m none too confident that email security is the ONE issue where they’ve finally decided to abide by the rules.
"deekster_caddy" (deekster_caddy)
02/02/2017 at 21:08, STARS: 0
Yeah unfortunately Johnson did not present well when he got his shot at prime time. Stein did better. Either way, they should’ve been included in the debates given how much dissatisfaction there was surrounding the big two...
"wiffleballtony" (wiffleballtony)
02/02/2017 at 21:11, STARS: 0
That could very well be the case.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/02/2017 at 21:17, STARS: 0
H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and Obama were all extremely popular candidates with fairly positive approval ratings. Clinton and Obama, in particular, left office with high approval ratings.
W. Bush and Gore were tightly matched and perhaps the most ambivalent of all the recent races, and the while Trump/Clinton race elicited a number of “never Trump/never Clinton” votes which garnered lots of social media attention, you can’t deny the hard numbers. Clinton won the popular vote by more than 3 million votes — a pretty hefty margin. Less than 75,000 votes in three swing states won the electoral vote for Trump, who, contrary to his ridiculous assertions, was not the landslide electoral vote he says it was. For instance, HW Bush, Clinton and Eisenhower are just three who got WAY more electoral votes. In the modern era, FDR won by a fricken blowout: 523 out of a possible 531 electoral votes — a whopping 97 percent of the College.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
02/02/2017 at 21:39, STARS: 0
I could absolutely argue that she was unqualified, or rather I should say disqualified, based on things beyond just her CV. But I think that would be a waste of my time. I doubt you would find anything I could say convincing.
"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
02/02/2017 at 22:06, STARS: 0
Probably. Because I’m also of a belief that Clinton’s hard earned qualifications get dismissed in large part due to sexist double standards.
Note, I’m not AT ALL saying Clinton was a “perfect” candidate, or even that she was the best candidate who’s run in recent memory. What I’m saying is that she is, singlehandedly, one of the most qualified candidates to run in a long time. She certainly is better qualified than her own husband and Barack Obama (compared to them during their own candidacies, that is).
But one of the most nefarious things about sexism (as with other “isms” like racism), is that we’re not always cognizant of its effects on us (yes, women, too) and how we perceive powerful women.
I’m a woman who has often been in leadership roles. I’m currently in a leadership role at my job. I’ve experienced both overt sexism and sexism from people who otherwise think themselves progressive. I’ve experienced sexism from other women, including those who had to fight tooth and nail in a “men’s world” to carve out a role for themselves. (For reference, I’m a journalist. Men have long dominated this industry. Historically, women were rarely hired to work in newsrooms and are still woefully underrepresented. When we WERE hired, we weren’t allowed to do serious journalism, as that was seen as a man’s role. We could research stories and gather facts which would then be assembled into a story by male writers. Or we could work in the “society” section covering such riveting topics as food and fashion. We couldn’t cover sports or do undercover work. We could be copy editors, but not managing editors. Once television news came about, we couldn’t be anchors or even field reporters).
So, no, I probably wouldn’t agree with anything you have to say about Hillary Clinton’s “disqualifications,” because I’m certain they are, at least in part (even if it’s a very small part) based on sexist double standards that would never “disqualify” her were she a man.
"deekster_caddy" (deekster_caddy)
02/02/2017 at 22:08, STARS: 0
It was more than just social media attention. The witchhunt worked quite well. I have several personal friends who supported Trump because “never clinton” and would not listen to my pleas of ‘that’s fine but at least consider a third party’. I think many of them were lying when they admitted Trump was also poor choice but the lesser of two evils - and I think the 3rd parties could have absolutely soared if they had strong candidates.
"shop-teacher" (shop-teacher)
02/02/2017 at 22:29, STARS: 2
Charter schools are just clever ways to cut teachers’ pay and put the savings in the pocket of politicians’ friends. Charter schools that supposedly “out perform” comparable public schools do so by using the one tool they have, that public schools do not: selective enrollment. They take the cream of the crop, and anyone who doesn’t want to work gets kicked out. It’s easy to look good when you don’t have to take on the tough cases.
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
02/02/2017 at 22:55, STARS: 0
I’ll toss in another .02
I live in a small rural ky county. Fairly poor by the national standard but not bad by the region. The entire county has 1 HS 1 MS 3 Ele and one Christian preK-8 school and assorted homeschooled children.
Voucher/charter proponents talk about choice and competition between schools. The problem is that there won’t be any additional competition here because there’s no business case for it. Schools are expensive. Building new ones even more so. The only school building unoccupied would be 15mi out of town and woefully behind the times. As in only the cafeteria/gym had A/C. This means that for ANY change, one of the current schools would need to be replaced. No one is building a new school for a market of ~3,000 kids.
If there was a charter replacement, control would shift from the locally elected school board to likely a corporation looking to maximize profits. The problem then becomes that the tax pool stays the same, but now a corporation takes a cut. So in the end there’s less for the school.
"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove)
02/02/2017 at 23:12, STARS: 0
I read your post. Now I would like to tell you why I found it upsetting.
First: The HondaBro’s post was a hot take with a clear message: only uneducated people would vote for Trump because an educated person would know better. You jumped in to support the statement while defining uneducated and undereducated as people without college degrees. You quote numbers to say that these people were more likely to be Trump supporters, and you make it clear that you think this is a bad thing. So the inference of your writings is that people without college degrees are unqualified or less qualified to make a responsible, informed choice of who they want for president, and by extension those with college degrees are more qualified to make that decision. This position smacks of elitism and is a slap in the face to all the people who took the time to deliberate and cast their votes but didn’t have the opportunity to pursue post-secondary education. More, it goes against the principle of democratic self-governance upon which our country is built. It’s the old practice of denigrating those who don’t agree with your decision.
Second: the very numbers you cite argue against your inference that educated people don’t like Trump. According to your numbers, 43% of college graduates voted for Trump. That’s a lot of educated people, yet you dismiss their votes so easily.
Third: After making your argument about the education of the electorate, you launched into a long diatribe about the evils Trump has perpetrated. I’ve followed the news. In truth, I have my reservations and concerns similar to yours. However, I do not need to be lectured and told what to think. I know what’s going on, and I can decide for myself what I think about it, thank you very much. I feel like you’re trying to bully me into taking your point of view, and I don’t like to be bullied.
"LongbowMkII" (longbowmkii)
02/02/2017 at 23:35, STARS: 1
Sadly, that witch hunt has been going since 1992... it’s amazing what a couple decades of rumor and innuendo will do to develop a vague untrustworthiness. What wasn’t amazing was how the campaign attempted to ignore it