by "ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
Published 02/01/2017 at 16:51
by "ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
Published 02/01/2017 at 16:51
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I’m reading Daniel Boorstin’s masterful The Discoverers , and came across this tidbit that seems rather timely. (Trigger warning: religious, and possibly political)
A thousand years later the English divine Thomas Burnet (1635?-1715) combined Platonic theology, science and Alpine-travel experience into a celebrated Sacred Theory of the Earth (1684) of his own . . . . Burnet’s “sacred theory” described the making and remaking of the earth’s surface in four phases: Creation, Deluge, Conflagration, and Consummation. In the present stage, after the Deluge [Noah’s flood] and preparing for the Conflagration, the sun has dried out the planet, and internal changes have been readying the whole earth for burning. After the Conflagration comes the millennium with a new heaven and a new earth; and after the millennium, when the earth will be changed into a bright star, all Scripture prophecies will be fulfilled.
Did Burnet presage global warming? Are there those out there who believe that the warming of the planet is just the predecessor to some foreordained Biblical prophecy? There’s no word in this short summary on whether or not humanity will survive the Conflagration, or if mankind will be somehow remade. But there are people out there who are actively trying to bring about the End of Days.
Daniel Boorstin, The Discoverers: A history of man’s search to know his world and himself (New York: Vintage Books, 1985) 92.
"Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig" (AndySheehan-StreetsideStig)
02/01/2017 at 17:00, STARS: 1
Iiiit’s a bit of a debate, at least among Christians, whether or not God will burn the Earth. Most who believe in the “Conflagration” agree that it will happen after the millennium.
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
02/01/2017 at 17:02, STARS: 0
*Comparisons of Trump to Hitler and/or the Antichrist may be overblown.
If he gets impeached 6 months shy of serving his full first term, then we’ll know something’s up...
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
02/01/2017 at 17:03, STARS: 1
no mountains tho...
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
02/01/2017 at 17:05, STARS: 0
This wasn’t necessarily about Trump. As a historian, I found something that could be paralleled with global warming to be more intriguing. Of course, just about any prophesy can be shoehorned into a modern interpretation.
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
02/01/2017 at 17:17, STARS: 1
I’m just trying to make light of it all, and the hysteria around it.
Plenty have made and will make comparisons of Trump to Hitler. While I think Trump is a blowhard, misogynist, race-baiting (if not racist) narcissist, I haven’t seen any convincing proof that he’s interested in genocide.
Comparing him to Hitler (or the Antichrist) really only serves to discredit any intelligent point one is trying to make.
"Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)" (bman76-4)
02/01/2017 at 17:20, STARS: 1
I mean, the floods caused by climate change will get here first...
...and we aren’t supposed to ever have a great flood to wipeout mankind again...
...so I’m more worried about being exterminated by the Daleks than any of this “conflagration” honestly.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
02/01/2017 at 17:28, STARS: 3
I think he’s compared to Hitler as a symbol of Fascism, and not necessarily genocide. Even though Mussolini was the prototypical Fascist and came before Hitler, nobody can tell you who Mussolini was. But everybody with an Internet connection knows Hitler. This definition is enlightening:
German Fascism . Once in power Adolf Hitler turned Germany into a fascist state. Fascist was originally used to describe the government of Benito Mussolini in Italy. Mussolini’s fascist one-party state emphasized patriotism, national unity, hatred of communism, admiration of military values and unquestioning obedience.
The German economic system remained capitalistic but the state played a more prominent role in managing the economy. Industrialists were sometimes told what to produce and what price they should charge for the goods that they made. The government also had the power to order workers to move to where they were required.
By taking these powers Hitler’s government was able to control factors such as inflation and unemployment that had caused considerable distress in previous years. As the government generally allowed companies to maintain their profit margins, industrialists tended to accept the loss of some of their freedoms.
Under fascism, most potential sources of opposition were removed. This included political parties and the trade union movement. However, Adolf Hitler never felt strong enough to take complete control of the German Army , and before taking important decisions he always had to take into consideration how the armed forces would react.
http://spartacus-educational.com/GERfascist.htm
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
02/01/2017 at 17:48, STARS: 1
To follow up on my comment about Fascism. It’s important to remember that Hitler came to power after the economic hardships of the Treaty of Versailles. He had a welcome audience who felt that Germany was economically wrecked, had lost all international prestige, and longed to stretch its muscle around the world again (the economy in Germany was pretty shitty at that point). Hitler was able to lay the blame not only the Entente Alliance (originally Britain, Russia and America, who forced the Treaty of Versailles on them) but also the Jews, the Romani (Gypsies), and basically everybody other than true ethnic Germans. Does this begin to sound familiar? While those harsh economic conditions do not exist in the entirety of the US, Trump made it sound like they did. He appealed to those disaffected Americans, and hammered home every chance he had that the fault lay with immigrants, Muslims, and basically anybody who wasn’t a white Christian American. He (or Bannon) took a page out of Mussolini’s playbook, as perfected by Hitler, and brought it to America. And therein lies the comparison, and I think it’s a valid one.
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
02/01/2017 at 18:20, STARS: 0
Yeah, I’m not saying they’re not using the playbook, but one can’t hear “Hitler” without thinking genocide. Better to just call him a fascist, if that’s what you’re going for. I will say this: not mentioning the Jews by name in his statement on Holocaust Remembrance day was very troubling...
I listened to this yesterday. It’s an hour long, but very good (if terrifyingly realistic) and worth your time. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/03/how-to-build-an-autocracy/513872/
This is a good read as well: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/a-clarifying-moment-in-american-history/514868/?mc_cid=b04b44bd2f&mc_eid=211848afd8
I found these two particularly interesting as they’re coming from longtime conservatives. I appreciated Senators McCain and Graham and others standing up stongly against the travel ban. It seems that a large enough number on the right might actually have the spine necessary to put our new President in his place if he continues along the path he’s forging.
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
02/01/2017 at 18:26, STARS: 1
And I’m just going to take this moment to mention how much I appreciate the intelligent, rational & balanced discourse that can be found and had on OPPO (despite recent examples to the contrary).
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
02/01/2017 at 18:26, STARS: 0
Aside from Speaker Ryan, who only made apologies for the way in which the ban was rolled out, I have found the silence on the right to be deafening. The Republican Congress is so laser focused on repealing the ACA and stacking the Supreme Court that they are willing to put up with these shenanigans as long as their own political agenda—and career—gets advanced. The majority of them have kissed Trump’s ring and joined in lock step behind him because they don’t want to be on his bad side. There must be principled people in the GOP—and yes, McCain is one of them (I don’t necessarily agree with his politics, but I have a wealth of respect for the man). But they are too blinded by their own ambitions to take a stand for what they believe in, if they believe in the true meaning of America at all.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
02/01/2017 at 18:29, STARS: 1
Hear! Hear!
"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction)
02/01/2017 at 18:31, STARS: 0
Ryan gained a lot of respect from me during the campaign for speaking out against things Trump was saying, but I’ve lost a little for him in recent days, honestly. Yes, sadly, the majority are keeping their mouths shut to try to get their agenda enacted before he crosses a line so clear that they’ll lose whatever credibility they have left if they don’t impeach him.
He definitely holds a grudge and has enough of the electorate behind him that many aren’t willing to incur his (and their wrath).
A quote from the article I sent you:
“For the community of conservative thinkers and experts, and more importantly, conservative politicians, this is a testing time. Either you stand up for your principles and for what you know is decent behavior, or you go down, if not now, then years from now, as a coward or opportunist. Your reputation will never recover, nor should it.”
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
02/01/2017 at 18:34, STARS: 1
Another followup: We can’t just use the word “Fascist” because nobody would be able to tell you what that means. They know it’s a bad thing, but they couldn’t possibly define it. “Hitler” is easy because Hitler was bad.
He killed the Jews, right?
Yes, he did. But what kind of a leader was he?
*Crickets chirping*
The American people don’t do nuance. Discourse has been reduced to a sound byte or a Facebook post. It’s knee jerk reactions on both sides. But if you don’t do your homework, and learn about what is really happening, you can’t make an informed decision. Cf: The 2016 presidential election.
"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
02/01/2017 at 18:37, STARS: 1
The Beltway never forgets. It’s repulsive to me how so many in the GOP mocked and debased Trump on the campaign trail, but then kissed his ass when he won. It’s beyond despicable. But Washington has always been the place of “What have you done for me lately?” and “What’s in it for me?” These guys will sell their souls to erase anything good that was done by that Kenyan Muslim. So much for draining the swamp. Trump only made it deeper.